Author Topic: Shaq Out for Game 5  (Read 11084 times)

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Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2011, 12:03:47 PM »

Offline jaybahs

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Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2011, 12:08:42 PM »

Offline vinnie

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Wow. I am absolutely shocked. Shaq not playing tonight? Wow. I keep going back to Danny's quotes about Shaq after he made me trade. Makes me sicker by the day just reading them. Troy Murphy might be the answer tonight. Why not? Nothing else to lose.

Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2011, 12:15:27 PM »

Offline dlpin

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I would love to see this quote where Ainge says he did the trade because he thought Shaq would be healthy. I keep asking and people keep ignoring.

He said that if both Shaq AND JO were down we'd be in trouble. But he never said he did the trade because Shaq especifically would be healthy.

In any case, Perkins wouldn't be out there against the Heat's small line up anyways.

Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2011, 12:16:55 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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Wouldn't it be awesome if Troy came in off the bench and just killed it, rebounding and hitting shots like crazy?  He'd average a double double over the next three games, which the Celtics would all win thanks to his sudden contribution and the Heat's lack of an answer for him.

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Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2011, 12:20:04 PM »

Offline vinnie

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I would love to see this quote where Ainge says he did the trade because he thought Shaq would be healthy. I keep asking and people keep ignoring.

He said that if both Shaq AND JO were down we'd be in trouble. But he never said he did the trade because Shaq especifically would be healthy.

In any case, Perkins wouldn't be out there against the Heat's small line up anyways.

You are welcome. Pretty funny that he also mentioned Krstic and Troy Murphy as making the team stronger. Looking back at Danny's quotes is a laugh riot. I will search for a few more:


“I think we’re stronger. I think our offense and our defense will be every bit as good, if not better as long as we get some bodies healthy….
 
“First of all, we were leading the conference because of Shaq. We had a better record with Shaq than we did with Perk. Our offense was better and our defense was at least the same. I don’t think Perk is Perk yet. I hope that he becomes that for Oklahoma City’s sake. We thought it was going to take some time for Perk. He wasn’t the shot-blocker or the rebounder that he’s been in the past. We think that by adding Jeff Green (Green had 21 against the Warriors last Friday), Nenad Krstic, and Troy Murphy we think we’re a better team than we were. Shaq was starting for us when we had the great run this year. Baby (Glen Davis) was finishing for us. So we basically lost middle minutes.
 
Ainge has more trust in Shaq to be able to perform consistently in the playoffs — especially on the defensive end — than I do. He thinks more of Jeff Green than I do.

Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2011, 12:22:48 PM »

Offline vinnie

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A little more on what Danny had to say about Shaq in his interview in March with Dan Shaughnessy:

Me: You're banking on Shaq being Shaq in the springtime (O'Neal has not played in a game since Feb. 1).
 
Ainge: "He's better than he was in the fall."

Here is the only place in the DS interview that he mentioned JO:

"Now if Shaq and Jermaine [O'Neal] can't play we could be in trouble. But Perk's out for three weeks right now. He's coming off an ACL tear and he's got a sprained MCL on the other knee, so the health of all of those players is in question. I'm a Perk fan. Love him as a player. But I think he's a player that is not irreplaceable. Time will tell."


Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2011, 12:25:37 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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I would love to see this quote where Ainge says he did the trade because he thought Shaq would be healthy. I keep asking and people keep ignoring.

He said that if both Shaq AND JO were down we'd be in trouble. But he never said he did the trade because Shaq especifically would be healthy.

In any case, Perkins wouldn't be out there against the Heat's small line up anyways.

You are welcome. Pretty funny that he also mentioned Krstic and Troy Murphy as making the team stronger. Looking back at Danny's quotes is a laugh riot. I will search for a few more:


“I think we’re stronger. I think our offense and our defense will be every bit as good, if not better as long as we get some bodies healthy….
 
“First of all, we were leading the conference because of Shaq. We had a better record with Shaq than we did with Perk. Our offense was better and our defense was at least the same. I don’t think Perk is Perk yet. I hope that he becomes that for Oklahoma City’s sake. We thought it was going to take some time for Perk. He wasn’t the shot-blocker or the rebounder that he’s been in the past. We think that by adding Jeff Green (Green had 21 against the Warriors last Friday), Nenad Krstic, and Troy Murphy we think we’re a better team than we were. Shaq was starting for us when we had the great run this year. Baby (Glen Davis) was finishing for us. So we basically lost middle minutes.
 
Ainge has more trust in Shaq to be able to perform consistently in the playoffs — especially on the defensive end — than I do. He thinks more of Jeff Green than I do.


First and foremost, Perk has hardly given OKC anything other than intangibles, a few tip-ins (one extremely controversial), and a few nice screens.  Other than the nice screens, I don't think the Celtics are missing those things all that much.  Nazr Mohammed has been far more productive for the Thunder, as has Nick Collison.

I think Ainge had good reason to think that the team would be very well off with an engaged and integrated Jeff Green (we're starting to see the potential of that in this series, as Green has played reasonably well the last few games) and a healthy Shaq.

It's fair to criticize Ainge for expecting Shaq and JO to be healthy given their age and injury history, but I think it's reasonable for him to believe that if our roster were healthy and integrated they would perform very well on both ends of the court. 

Also, Ainge obviously had better inside information than us with regard to Shaq's injury, so I'll defer to him on this one.  I doubt he could have foreseen Shaq injuring himself again literally 5 minutes after returning from the Achilles injury.  If that hadn't happened, Ainge probably would have been proven right about Shaq.
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Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2011, 12:27:50 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Particularly with Miami going small so much, I think the C's should be fine without Shaq anyways, as long as they rotate KG and JO in a way to keep one of them on the floor at all times (which Doc did for the most part last game). 

I disagree. Shaq is the only guy who could really make them pay for going small. I think that the story of this series has been that Miami small lineup is better than the celtics small line up and the celtics doesn't have a big that can score consistently to make miami pay for going small.

I agree with you. Jermaine really does not play big. Seems to get his shot blocked a lot by Miami, including little guys like Wade. That does not happen to Shaq. He is too strong. Very disappointed with Jermaine's play in that regard.

I wouldn't read too much into LeBron's and Wade's blocks from behind, because they are just that, from behind. If he went all BBD on us and was getting blocked straight up by smaller guys, then I'd worry.

And you didn't see Shaq get blocked at all this series because he has played like 8 minutes in 4 games, only taking 2 field goals.

We are a better team with JO out there than any other center. But I don't get why Doc didn't use Murphy at all, even to stop them from doubling as much. At this point you can't go to him because it's too risky, but the first two games would have been the time to use him. Either he opens up the floor for Rondo/Pierce/Allen or he hits a couple threes, which makes those first two games a lot more interesting down the stretch. He's still a decent rebounder, better than BBD or Krstic.


O well, hopefully JO stays out of foul trouble and can give us 34 minutes tonight. Delonte too.

I expect a short 7-8 man rotation with Pierce and KG logging the most minutes. Time for them to be the HoFers they are.

Delonte, Green, Ray, JO, and Rondo (limited minutes if he isn't feeling significantly better than G4). That's it. BBD only for foul trouble or to give JO/KG a blow to end/start a quarter. I honestly don't want BBD playing more than 5 minutes tonight unless he comes out a completely different player than he has been basically the entire playoffs.
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Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2011, 12:29:10 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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You are welcome. Pretty funny that he also mentioned Krstic and Troy Murphy as making the team stronger. Looking back at Danny's quotes is a laugh riot. I will search for a few more:

"You ARE right, these ARE funny. I'm happy you posted these!" said StartOrien very sarcastically.

Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2011, 12:29:43 PM »

Offline vinnie

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I would love to see this quote where Ainge says he did the trade because he thought Shaq would be healthy. I keep asking and people keep ignoring.

He said that if both Shaq AND JO were down we'd be in trouble. But he never said he did the trade because Shaq especifically would be healthy.

In any case, Perkins wouldn't be out there against the Heat's small line up anyways.

You are welcome. Pretty funny that he also mentioned Krstic and Troy Murphy as making the team stronger. Looking back at Danny's quotes is a laugh riot. I will search for a few more:


“I think we’re stronger. I think our offense and our defense will be every bit as good, if not better as long as we get some bodies healthy….
 
“First of all, we were leading the conference because of Shaq. We had a better record with Shaq than we did with Perk. Our offense was better and our defense was at least the same. I don’t think Perk is Perk yet. I hope that he becomes that for Oklahoma City’s sake. We thought it was going to take some time for Perk. He wasn’t the shot-blocker or the rebounder that he’s been in the past. We think that by adding Jeff Green (Green had 21 against the Warriors last Friday), Nenad Krstic, and Troy Murphy we think we’re a better team than we were. Shaq was starting for us when we had the great run this year. Baby (Glen Davis) was finishing for us. So we basically lost middle minutes.
 
Ainge has more trust in Shaq to be able to perform consistently in the playoffs — especially on the defensive end — than I do. He thinks more of Jeff Green than I do.


First and foremost, Perk has hardly given OKC anything other than intangibles, a few tip-ins (one extremely controversial), and a few nice screens.  Other than the nice screens, I don't think the Celtics are missing those things all that much.  Nazr Mohammed has been far more productive for the Thunder, as has Nick Collison.

I think Ainge had good reason to think that the team would be very well off with an engaged and integrated Jeff Green (we're starting to see the potential of that in this series, as Green has played reasonably well the last few games) and a healthy Shaq.

It's fair to criticize Ainge for expecting Shaq and JO to be healthy given their age and injury history, but I think it's reasonable for him to believe that if our roster were healthy and integrated they would perform very well on both ends of the court. 

Also, Ainge obviously had better inside information than us with regard to Shaq's injury, so I'll defer to him on this one.  I doubt he could have foreseen Shaq injuring himself again literally 5 minutes after returning from the Achilles injury.  If that hadn't happened, Ainge probably would have been proven right about Shaq.

So Danny had better inside information than us and he was still wrong. And, frommost things I have read, Shaq's second injury was directly related to the first. Finally, does Danny just get a free pass for this season? He doesn't from me.

Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2011, 12:30:33 PM »

Offline vinnie

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You are welcome. Pretty funny that he also mentioned Krstic and Troy Murphy as making the team stronger. Looking back at Danny's quotes is a laugh riot. I will search for a few more:

"You ARE right, these ARE funny. I'm happy you posted these!" said StartOrien very sarcastically.

Yes, we should keep these quotes secret, he wrote with a demonic laugh.

Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2011, 12:34:39 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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I would love to see this quote where Ainge says he did the trade because he thought Shaq would be healthy. I keep asking and people keep ignoring.

He said that if both Shaq AND JO were down we'd be in trouble. But he never said he did the trade because Shaq especifically would be healthy.

In any case, Perkins wouldn't be out there against the Heat's small line up anyways.

You are welcome. Pretty funny that he also mentioned Krstic and Troy Murphy as making the team stronger. Looking back at Danny's quotes is a laugh riot. I will search for a few more:


“I think we’re stronger. I think our offense and our defense will be every bit as good, if not better as long as we get some bodies healthy….
 
“First of all, we were leading the conference because of Shaq. We had a better record with Shaq than we did with Perk. Our offense was better and our defense was at least the same. I don’t think Perk is Perk yet. I hope that he becomes that for Oklahoma City’s sake. We thought it was going to take some time for Perk. He wasn’t the shot-blocker or the rebounder that he’s been in the past. We think that by adding Jeff Green (Green had 21 against the Warriors last Friday), Nenad Krstic, and Troy Murphy we think we’re a better team than we were. Shaq was starting for us when we had the great run this year. Baby (Glen Davis) was finishing for us. So we basically lost middle minutes.
 
Ainge has more trust in Shaq to be able to perform consistently in the playoffs — especially on the defensive end — than I do. He thinks more of Jeff Green than I do.


First and foremost, Perk has hardly given OKC anything other than intangibles, a few tip-ins (one extremely controversial), and a few nice screens.  Other than the nice screens, I don't think the Celtics are missing those things all that much.  Nazr Mohammed has been far more productive for the Thunder, as has Nick Collison.

I think Ainge had good reason to think that the team would be very well off with an engaged and integrated Jeff Green (we're starting to see the potential of that in this series, as Green has played reasonably well the last few games) and a healthy Shaq.

It's fair to criticize Ainge for expecting Shaq and JO to be healthy given their age and injury history, but I think it's reasonable for him to believe that if our roster were healthy and integrated they would perform very well on both ends of the court.  

Also, Ainge obviously had better inside information than us with regard to Shaq's injury, so I'll defer to him on this one.  I doubt he could have foreseen Shaq injuring himself again literally 5 minutes after returning from the Achilles injury.  If that hadn't happened, Ainge probably would have been proven right about Shaq.

So Danny had better inside information than us and he was still wrong. And, frommost things I have read, Shaq's second injury was directly related to the first. Finally, does Danny just get a free pass for this season? He doesn't from me.

He had better inside information and he knows far more about basketball than us (plus he has advisors who are far more knowledgeable than us).  I defer to him on this one.  Just because he was wrong doesn't mean the gamble he took was necessarily a bad one.  Even a reasonable gamble can work out poorly.  Doesn't mean it was a poor decision at the time that it was made.

No, Danny doesn't get a free pass for this season.  I think his mid-season moves were understandable, and his reasons for making the trade make sense, especially considering where we were at the time.

However, I think his off-season moves deserve a fair amount of scrutiny, considering he basically leveraged this team's success so heavily upon players with very significant injury histories (Delonte, Shaq, Jermaine, Marquis).  Considering that the Celtics are an old and thus injury prone team, building a bench out of older and injury prone players doesn't seem like the best idea.  There's an argument to be made that Danny was doing his best with what was available, though.  

Not re-signing TA considering his great play in the playoffs last year and Marquis' injury history has to be seen as a pretty serious mistake, too, especially considering our lack of wing help is one of the major factors that precipitated the Perkins trade which everybody hates so much.


Overall, though, I like the team that Danny built this season.  I think if everything had worked out the way Danny planned, this team would have been more than capable of winning a championship regardless of their competition. 

You could definitely say that a lot more went wrong than went right with Danny's plan, though.  Still, a lot of went wrong wasn't necessarily foreseeable, I don't think. 

Could Danny have really thought JO, Delonte, and Shaq would all miss so much time, and that Marquis's season would end in February?  No, I don't think so. 

Could Danny have foreseen that Shaq wouldn't be able to play at all in the playoffs?  Maybe, I don't know.  Could he have expected that Jeff Green would have so much trouble and take so long to really find his place on the Celtics?  Maybe . . . probably not.
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Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2011, 12:35:28 PM »

Offline dlpin

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A little more on what Danny had to say about Shaq in his interview in March with Dan Shaughnessy:

Me: You're banking on Shaq being Shaq in the springtime (O'Neal has not played in a game since Feb. 1).
 
Ainge: "He's better than he was in the fall."

Here is the only place in the DS interview that he mentioned JO:

"Now if Shaq and Jermaine [O'Neal] can't play we could be in trouble. But Perk's out for three weeks right now. He's coming off an ACL tear and he's got a sprained MCL on the other knee, so the health of all of those players is in question. I'm a Perk fan. Love him as a player. But I think he's a player that is not irreplaceable. Time will tell."



So the answer is no, you can't find the quote where he specifically said that he made the trade because Shaq would be healthy?

Saying that the reason we were 1 was because of Shaq is actually true. We were 1st place because of Shaq, not Perkins. So that is correct.

He was also correct when he said "We thought it was going to take some time for Perk. He wasn’t the shot-blocker or the rebounder that he’s been in the past." Perkins has 4 blocks in 9 games these playoffs. Meanwhile, Marc Gasol, who averaged 11 points, 7 rebounds, 1.7 blocks during the regular season, is averaging 19 points, 13 rebounds and 3 blocks against Perkins.

Other than that, he never said anything about doing the trade specifically counting on Shaq. He said that we would be in trouble if both Shaq and JO were down, but they aren't.


Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2011, 12:36:11 PM »

Offline StartOrien

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You are welcome. Pretty funny that he also mentioned Krstic and Troy Murphy as making the team stronger. Looking back at Danny's quotes is a laugh riot. I will search for a few more:

"You ARE right, these ARE funny. I'm happy you posted these!" said StartOrien very sarcastically.

Yes, we should keep these quotes secret, he wrote with a demonic laugh.

I think there's a difference between presenting the information, and celebrating it.

Re: Shaq Out for Game 5
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2011, 12:40:09 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Nazr Mohammed has been far more productive for the Thunder, as has Nick Collison.

Nazr Mohammed is averaging 1.7 points, 2.2 rebounds, 0.0 assists, 35.0% FG%, and 16.7% FT% in 10.7 minutes per game in the playoffs.  I think you might be getting him confused with somebody else.

Collison has been a more effective scorer and an inferior rebounder to Perk.


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