Celtic's fans dirty little secret

[PierceMVP08]

The thing that gets me is that we basically wasted 3 years of the big three. Why put these guys together and then cut corners on the players around them year after year. The arrogance of Danny ainge really gets me. It began by letting posey go, then Eddie house, powe, tony and perk. Then tryin to just insert guys at the end of the year like marbury, green and friends. Yes, only tony and perk are still relevant but I think the thing with this team was that they were always greater than the sum of their parts.

Looking back, I feel what youre saying.  However, many people thought we came into this season with the best bench in the league despite letting powe, tony, and eddie go.

I absolutely agree and I felt the same way.  The thing with that though is that the bench we came in with is no longer the bench we have.  From our finals team only 5 guys remain. Just like the spurs, while the jerseys have championship experience, only a few guys wearing them actually have it.

[PierceMVP08]

The thing that gets me is that we basically wasted 3 years of the big three. Why put these guys together and then cut corners on the players around them year after year. The arrogance of Danny ainge really gets me.It began by letting posey go, then Eddie house, powe, tony and perk. Then tryin to just insert guys at the end of the year like marbury, green and friends. Yes, only tony and perk are still relevant but I think the thing with this team was that they were always greater than the sum of their parts.

Come on, half of those guys don't even play. Would you be happy paying 6 million to a washed up Posey?

I do agree that he could've done a better job in the 08-09 off season though.

Like I said only tony and perk are still relevant but you don't think bringing back the championship team would have benefited them? Why did Ainge bring in green to play the posey and Allen role? Who can spread the floor off the bench like house? These are things we are missing that we had and now are struggling to get back.

[GreenEnvy]

Ok, so let's see. The Celtics were 34-10 prior to Perkins return.

So, you think our bench was better then?

Is 'Quis, Harangody, Erden, and Nate better than Green, Krstic, Murphy, and Arroyo? Not really.

Are you insinuating that the thought of Perkins' return propelled the team to play better than the touch of the O'Brien trophy would now?

Shaq may be a bigger piece to this puzzle than we want to admit.

BUT.... we can still beat this team without him. The guys that get minutes need to put forth a better effort, that's it.

[Marcus13]

Ok, so let's see. The Celtics were 34-10 prior to Perkins return.

So, you think our bench was better then?

Is 'Quis, Harangody, Erden, and Nate better than Green, Krstic, Murphy, and Arroyo? Not really.

Are you insinuating that the thought of Perkins' return propelled the team to play better than the touch of the O'Brien trophy would now?

Shaq may be a bigger piece to this puzzle than we want to admit.

BUT.... we can still beat this team without him. The guys that get minutes need to put forth a better effort, that's it.

The problem may very well be more mental then anything else.  But it just seems naive to me to think that the trades have nothing to do with our performance when we started playing poorly immediately after the moves were made

[PosImpos]

Father time comes for us all.  The window was open a year longer than anybody originally expected.  Now the writing is finally on the wall.

I disagree that the Celtics should go the Dylan Thomas route on this one; the Celtics should not hold onto this core for too long and "rage against the dying of the light."  The best thing to do is accept what's happening and get started on the rebuilding process right away. 

Nobody on our current roster should be untouchable because nobody on the current roster is a player to build around.

[the_Bird]

I've never really bought into the whole idea that our identity vanished with the Perk trade... but something has definately changed, and not for the better.

How many times have we heard other players from around the league say that that is exactly what happened?  Derrick Rose's quote is one that sticks out in particular, but there have been a lot of other players who have said the same.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2011/04/derrick-rose-on-the-celtics-we-know-we-can-beat-them/
  

With Perkins gone, everything changed for the Celtics and they knew it: the toughness, the tenacity, the presence in the post. “He was tough,” Rose said. “We could defend on someone that was big. He was really tough to go around. … They’re different.” Different doesn’t mean better. It means diminished. The Bulls beat the Celtics 44-22 in the paint, beat them badly on the boards, too. They assailed the Celtics the way the Celtics used to assail everyone else. “We know we can beat them,” Rose flatly said.

How 'bout old friend Tony Allen?

“I guess they wanted to get more offensive-minded,” Allen says. “They got rid of me, and, well, now who do you get to defend the perimeter? OK, you guys got shooters. Now you get rid of Perkins, and who sticks the best post man? Who sticks Dwight [Howard] and Amar’e [Stoudemire]? Well, I guess they want to spread the floor a little more. I don’t know. It all caught me by surprise. I guess they want to be more of a shooting team than a defensive team.”

Can't find the full quote, but he also talked about the hesitation he felt driving the lane against the Thunder, knowing the big guy was down low waiting.

There's been a lot of these little comments, I'm sure there will be more when the season's over.  The C's aren't feared anymore.  They rolled over the Knicks because the Knicks were a D-League team plus Carmello.  No one else is really afraid of them, anymore.

Surprise, surprise, you get rid of your most physical player and second-best defender, there are negative consequences.

EDIT: Not going to spend all night looking, but here's a quote from another old friend, Scalabrine, about how his Bulls teammates reacted to the trade:

On Perk: "One thing I always did when I was there, is I trusted Danny and Doc and the decisions they made and I always thought they were smarter than us and smarter than me. I will say this: As a whole our group is pretty excited about it. [Teams around the league] were excited to hear that he was gone. Truth be told, you know, moving forward and watching this team play you don't know what's going to happen." ... Derrick Rose was like 'Man, this was big for me. I can get to the basket.'

http://www.iamagm.com/news/2011/04/08/mr.opinion.brian.scalabrine.says.bulls.were.ecstatic.when.celtics.traded.perkins

When your opponents are ecstatic about you trading away one of your players....   yeah, that's going to have an effect.

[Marcus13]

^^TP.  I hadn't seen that quote from TA before.  We definitely changed our identity ... and not for the better

[snowball]

Father time comes for us all.  The window was open a year longer than anybody originally expected.  Now the writing is finally on the wall.

I disagree that the Celtics should go the Dylan Thomas route on this one; the Celtics should not hold onto this core for too long and "rage against the dying of the light."  The best thing to do is accept what's happening and get started on the rebuilding process right away. 

Nobody on our current roster should be untouchable because nobody on the current roster is a player to build around.

I disagree, because I would rather watch and root for
Pierce, Allen and Garnett. Next year they are all under
contract and should not be moved. We are still among the
best teams in the NBA with a very legit shot. If not,
at least we get to watch them some more put the finishing touches on their illustrious careers instead of watching
some assembly of new raw talent, which can be assembled at
any time. But we only have these guys for so long.

[Mike-Dub]

Maybe this is your guys secret but I sure as hell don't have any part in it and oh guess what I'm a Celtics fan, so I guess it's not all Celtic's fans secrets.

The secret that I'm spreading is that we all know what this team is capable of and that they're going to take out the Heat.

[PosImpos]

Father time comes for us all.  The window was open a year longer than anybody originally expected.  Now the writing is finally on the wall.

I disagree that the Celtics should go the Dylan Thomas route on this one; the Celtics should not hold onto this core for too long and "rage against the dying of the light."  The best thing to do is accept what's happening and get started on the rebuilding process right away. 

Nobody on our current roster should be untouchable because nobody on the current roster is a player to build around.

I disagree, because I would rather watch and root for
Pierce, Allen and Garnett. Next year they are all under
contract and should not be moved. We are still among the
best teams in the NBA with a very legit shot. If not,
at least we get to watch them some more put the finishing touches on their illustrious careers instead of watching
some assembly of new raw talent, which can be assembled at
any time. But we only have these guys for so long.

The longer we hold onto the Big 4, Glen Davis, Jeff Green etc in an attempt to stay relevant past the point of truly contending, the longer it will take to rebuild after the Big 3 finally retire.  I'd rather try to get something for our old guys and young talent now and be set up with a better chance to rebuild with draft picks and young assets with potential.

[the_Bird]

I disagree, because I would rather watch and root for
Pierce, Allen and Garnett. Next year they are all under
contract and should not be moved. We are still among the
best teams in the NBA with a very legit shot. If not,
at least we get to watch them some more put the finishing touches on their illustrious careers instead of watching
some assembly of new raw talent, which can be assembled at
any time. But we only have these guys for so long.

It's too early to REALLY start thinking this way (although it may not be in about a week and a half)....   but if you were looking to trade for Dwight Howard, KG's contract would be a nice piece to make the numbers work.  Orlando won't trade Dwight yet...  but if the team's struggling next season, stranger things have happened.  

Unless the team can acquire an athletic center, a backup PF, and a (good) backup SF using only the MLE, draft picks, and sign-and-trades of BBD and Jeff Green (neither of whom looks to be part of the long-term solution in Boston), they sure looked to be cooked as legit title contenders.

[PierceMVP08]

Ok, so let's see. The Celtics were 34-10 prior to Perkins return.

So, you think our bench was better then?

Is 'Quis, Harangody, Erden, and Nate better than Green, Krstic, Murphy, and Arroyo? Not really.

Are you insinuating that the thought of Perkins' return propelled the team to play better than the touch of the O'Brien trophy would now?

Shaq may be a bigger piece to this puzzle than we want to admit.

BUT.... we can still beat this team without him. The guys that get minutes need to put forth a better effort, that's it.

Yes I think our bench was better before the trades. Quis, erden, and mate all have given us something in the past. Green, kristic, arroyo, etc. have given us NOTHING. Add to it that pre trade we would have jermaine off the bench giving is good minutes and its no big deal if shaq doesn't come back. Not to mention our championship starting lineup us intact and you have either nate or d west to go to with the second unit or both together to give rondo a blow.

And where did I say they want perk more than the trophy? Don't put words in my mouth. I don't know what you're watching but the second unit doesn't play well together. They don't know eachother. You cant just throw guys together on a whim. Doesn't work and will never work. It even took Miami a year to get it. Danny has changed this team every year.

I agree shaw is a big part of the puzzle but anyone who thought relying on an injured 39 year old who is 350 pounds is a fool.

worst of all this team was worse for this year and worse for the future.  We have no pieces going forward. Even Rondo has regressed.  Maybe Perk isn't a franchise Center but he gave us a better chance of winning this year while green doesn't and doesn't give us a piece for the future.

[PseudoElite]

We've went from the best team in the league to the a bunch of old and soft washouts in a period of 6 months.

Depressing end to this era.

[Dante]

Our Big three dont have the legs they used to have back in 2008. Ive been saying that for 3 years now. slowly but surely, Kevin and PP are not as quick as they used to be. Time takes it toll. Allen cant get open as much as he used to in the past. We dont have a player that can create his own shot on a consistent basis. Our shots have to be created in the most part from a standing position.Lebron Kobe,Wade, Rose etc. can take it to the basket. Ours cant do it as consistently as they used to. The legs are not there after a long season. Its the curse of older players. Thats why older players have to be traded before they lose all their value. what do you think its going to happen next year with our big three? Are they willing to come of the bench?They are Gone as fast as they can leave for a chance to win it with another team. Maybe PP will stay, Maybe cause he has some records he wants to pursue, I think. But their time has come and gone. Thats it. We are not taking 4 games from the Heat, Lebron and wade are going to kill us every game and we have absolutely nobody to stop them. Not even the Bulls. The Heat this this year what we did in 88. Smart move. Or are we the only team that is allowed to go and buy a pennant?

[PosImpos]

We've went from the best team in the league to the a bunch of old and soft washouts in a period of 6 months.

Depressing end to this era.

That's what happens when your team is old . . . runs out of gas quickly.  I really think age and injuries had far more to do with the Celtics' decline this season than the trade.  Just look at what happened with San Antonio . . . off to an incredible start through the first half of the season then ended up with a first round exit.