Political correctness on CelticsBlog...

[LooseCannon]

Interesting how we have this long post going and LeBron comes out and calls a question retarded.  

I just want the mods to clarify whether or not it is permissible to refer a long-winded rant that is utterly wrong as "retarded".

Just to be clear, I wasn't calling the thread retarded, not sure if that was implied or not.  I just meant the PC aspect of LeBron's comment.

I guess you didn't see what I did there.

[Neurotic Guy]

Apologies for bringing up the conservative reference with regard to PC.   I easily could have made the same points without bringing politics into it. I am neither liberal or conservative in ideology, so I have no need to make this a political debat and I am sorry for contributing to the turn in this thread.

In response to Scooby's rant, I just wanted to remind that my point in previous post was that there is no such thing as language police -- people can say anything they want, even when some will call their comments derogatory or offensive.  The 'police' you refer to are just fellow Americans who disagree with use of stereotypic comments and are willing to provide the only social consequence they have at their disposal: the free speech to say "please don't say that".  Doesn't mean you can't (outside of blogs like this) say whatever you want.

[MBz]

Interesting how we have this long post going and LeBron comes out and calls a question retarded.  

I just want the mods to clarify whether or not it is permissible to refer a long-winded rant that is utterly wrong as "retarded".

Just to be clear, I wasn't calling the thread retarded, not sure if that was implied or not.  I just meant the PC aspect of LeBron's comment.

I guess you didn't see what I did there.

No no, I got it, Hah.  After reading my comment again, I just thought people might take mine the wrong way.

[ScoobyDoo]

Well...

Eja, what I didn't say was that it was politically correct to say guys play like chicks. What I've been saying all along was that I think it's irrelevant and I find it odd that people would find it offensive and that I thought we'd be better off worrying about much more important things than every little thing anyone says about anything.

I find it offensive that you think men should play like women. Isn't that an offense to the capabilities of men? What, exactly, is the difference between your statement and mine about the Celts playing like chicks? Why should I have to play more like women?

Trust me when I tell you, I could care less if you or a million people said that ScoobyDoo played like a chick, or played weak and was terrible. It would mean exactly "zero" to me. Why? Because I could give two craps about what you or anyone says about me. Why? Because I don't derive my sense of self from anyone but me. If I did, I'd be in a lot of trouble. And I certainly don't need someone to "protect" me from words.

Celtics18:

Yes, actually, it is brilliant. We have people running around worrying about who's saying "BOO!" to who, meanwhile, we're insulting / assaulting the intelligence, capability and ability of 50% +/- of the populattion by saying they don't have the same ability as the "rest" of the population to provide / procure a valid ID. Which is more important?

Barefacemonk:

Why should it be called a "rant" if I express myself at length? Others have also expressed themselves at length. Are their expressions not also rants? Or is only mine because you disagree with me? I have said, maybe 5-6 times now throughout this thread that I agree with the Mods and the blog rules and that I would follow them to a letter from here on out and that my statements were more of an expression about the society as a whole. But I don't see my stating my feelings on the matter as "calling people out".

Neurotic Guy:

No worries, I wasn't bothered by it, but since it was brought up, I figured I'd express my thoughts on it.       

[barefacedmonk]

my statements were more of an expression about the society as a whole.

You started this thread because one of the mods locked your thread since it was littered with stereotypes. That's why you started this thread...not because all of a sudden you felt that the society is too PC or whatever you want to call it.

Also, CelticsBlog is not the society...its a free service that Jeff provides for Celtics fans...nobody in the society (the real world) can stop you from using any stereotypes...use them in every sentence...unless you're trying to incite violence, the society will not force you to choose your words...go nuts with the stereotypes..its your right...and others have the right to call you out on it too. Be prepared for that. The hardships that you faced growing up have no bearing on how the society reacts to your words. A homophobic comment made by a poor man or a wealthy man will be viewed in the same light.

[LooseCannon]

Because I could give two craps about what you or anyone says about me.

I have a hard time reconciling this statement with the length of this thread.  It seems to bother you greatly that people disagree with a key facet of your political-social-cultural identity.

[Eja117]

Well...

Eja, what I didn't say was that it was politically correct to say guys play like chicks. What I've been saying all along was that I think it's irrelevant and I find it odd that people would find it offensive and that I thought we'd be better off worrying about much more important things than every little thing anyone says about anything.

I find it offensive that you think men should play like women. Isn't that an offense to the capabilities of men? What, exactly, is the difference between your statement and mine about the Celts playing like chicks? Why should I have to play more like women?

Trust me when I tell you, I could care less if you or a million people said that ScoobyDoo played like a chick, or played weak and was terrible. It would mean exactly "zero" to me. Why? Because I could give two craps about what you or anyone says about me. Why? Because I don't derive my sense of self from anyone but me. If I did, I'd be in a lot of trouble. And I certainly don't need someone to "protect" me from words.
    

Well if women are passing better and playing tight defense and shooting the ball better....it's not really an offense to the men's capabilities. It's a comment on their execution. I think this is overly philosophical now.

I'm glad you wouldn't care if I said they're playing liek Scooby, but I think the mods would edit it, because you can't attack individuals here.

That's great that you don't need protection and don't give a darn about what people say about you, but some people care what people say about others. For example if I happened to take a car load of special kids to the recent Heat game and the kids hear Bron say a question is retarded on the way home, should I turn around and be like "Hey kids. Grow up! You're feelings are invalid here! You gotta not care what people say about you!"? Or should we hold the athlete to a higher standard?

[Neurotic Guy]

Well...

Eja, what I didn't say was that it was politically correct to say guys play like chicks. What I've been saying all along was that I think it's irrelevant and I find it odd that people would find it offensive and that I thought we'd be better off worrying about much more important things than every little thing anyone says about anything.


Trust me when I tell you, I could care less if you or a million people said that ScoobyDoo played like a chick, or played weak and was terrible. It would mean exactly "zero" to me. Why? Because I could give two craps about what you or anyone says about me. Why? Because I don't derive my sense of self from anyone but me. If I did, I'd be in a lot of trouble. And I certainly don't need someone to "protect" me from words.

Sense of self is ALWAYS derived from a combination of one's natural temperment and biology AND the messages he/she receives from people in his/her life.  To suggest otherwise is silly and transparently defensive.  Not caring what others think sounds good, tough and fiercely independent, but it's seldom completely true.  And even if there are those rare folks who are completely indifferent to others' opinions, it will always be your choice whether to recognize and respect that many people ARE impacted by the words of others.  You can care about that or not -- another of the freedoms afforded to Americans.

What is "little" (words) to you may not be little to someone else. And, the cumulative effect of some things that seem little, sometimes have big effects.  I gave you the example earlier of my daughters who have to navigate constant societal messages about what is valued in young women.  The answer seems to suggest that all attributes are secondary to physical appearance and the importance of being attractive to men.  Obviously, many women do not allow their self-esteem to be compromised by this, but I guarantee that most women struggle at some point around this issue.

Believe it or not, societal attitudes can be perpetuated by small, seemingly insignificant words.

[MBz]

Scooby Doo, what do you think about LeBron calling the reporters question retarded on television?

[Greenbean]

Looks like this thread has taken a turn but Ill add my 2 cents.

I like the vibe around here. There are plenty of other internet communities where anything goes.

The basketball talk is fantastic. I learn alot here.

Also, the humor is pretty awesome. It is NOT easy to be funny and clean. Many posters are great at it.

I am a pretty vulgar person myself. Also not the most politically correct either. Suppressing that part of my personality on the site does not hinder my experience here. I can see why it would for some. I guess I would just say to move on if it does.

[Celtics18]

Well...

Eja, what I didn't say was that it was politically correct to say guys play like chicks. What I've been saying all along was that I think it's irrelevant and I find it odd that people would find it offensive and that I thought we'd be better off worrying about much more important things than every little thing anyone says about anything.

I find it offensive that you think men should play like women. Isn't that an offense to the capabilities of men? What, exactly, is the difference between your statement and mine about the Celts playing like chicks? Why should I have to play more like women?

Trust me when I tell you, I could care less if you or a million people said that ScoobyDoo played like a chick, or played weak and was terrible. It would mean exactly "zero" to me. Why? Because I could give two craps about what you or anyone says about me. Why? Because I don't derive my sense of self from anyone but me. If I did, I'd be in a lot of trouble. And I certainly don't need someone to "protect" me from words.

Celtics18:

Yes, actually, it is brilliant. We have people running around worrying about who's saying "BOO!" to who, meanwhile, we're insulting / assaulting the intelligence, capability and ability of 50% +/- of the populattion by saying they don't have the same ability as the "rest" of the population to provide / procure a valid ID. Which is more important?

Barefacemonk:

Why should it be called a "rant" if I express myself at length? Others have also expressed themselves at length. Are their expressions not also rants? Or is only mine because you disagree with me? I have said, maybe 5-6 times now throughout this thread that I agree with the Mods and the blog rules and that I would follow them to a letter from here on out and that my statements were more of an expression about the society as a whole. But I don't see my stating my feelings on the matter as "calling people out".

Neurotic Guy:

No worries, I wasn't bothered by it, but since it was brought up, I figured I'd express my thoughts on it.       

I'm glad you recognize your own brilliance.

 I'm not going to get in to a discussion about how I feel about voting issues.  If you post something about that in the current events thread, maybe I'll get involved, maybe I won't. 

That question is completely irrelevant to what we're talking about in this thread, however. 

By the way, it's pretty ironic to me that you are the one railing against hypersensitivity in our society.  You seem to be awfully sensitive yourself. 

[OsirusCeltics]

I just don't like the PC/baby-proof culture
Words are as strong you make them. Are those "bad words" are taboo in this culture, but they are just words.

Its annoying to hear "thats a mean thing to say", or "thats insensitive, how can you say that?". Like I can't be honest anymore. And no, for me honest does not equal being intentionally disrepectful. Like what Kobe said to the refs, or Lebron's whispering about his distaste of a reporter's questions. I had no problem with that

I know it may hurt (some hurt alot), but that's life. What are you protecting the kids for? They would hear it anyway, and decide for themselves if they want to use those words or not. We aren't teaching the children a valuable lesson by pretending life is a cake walk where everything is pleasant

Just my thoughts

[Chris]

I just don't like the PC/baby-proof culture
Words are as strong you make them. Are those "bad words" are taboo in this culture, but they are just words.

I know it may hurt (some hurt alot), but that's life. What are you protecting the kids for? They would hear it anyway, and decide for themselves if they want to use those words or not. We aren't teaching the children a valuable lesson by pretending life is a cake walk where everything is pleasant

Just my thoughts

While I personally feel pretty close to this side of the issue myself, I just don't think Celticsblog should be at the head of the spear fighting against societal norms.

Like it or not, we live in a PC culture, and a PC culture breeds this idea that you need to be offended by everything, as well as the idea that the correct response to being offended is to then go on the offensive against the offending party.

So, until this part of the culture changes (and I think it will sooner rather than later), it is just not a battle you can expect us to fight in communities like this.  Frankly, there just is no way a bunch of volunteers can put out the fires it would start to allow that kind of language on here.

[Roy H.]

I just don't like the PC/baby-proof culture
Words are as strong you make them. Are those "bad words" are taboo in this culture, but they are just words.

Its annoying to hear "thats a mean thing to say", or "thats insensitive, how can you say that?". Like I can't be honest anymore. And no, for me honest does not equal being intentionally disrepectful. Like what Kobe said to the refs, or Lebron's whispering about his distaste of a reporter's questions. I had no problem with that

Where do you draw the line, though?  Are racial slurs just figures of speech, as well?  I mean, they're "just words", but there's certainly a long history of hate behind them.

I don't like feigned offense, and I don't like people twisting somebody's meaning, but there are certain words that are simply unacceptable in most contexts.  I think asking somebody to avoid using them -- whether it's at CelticsBlog, at work / school, or even among your friends -- is perfectly reasonable.

[OsirusCeltics]

I just don't like the PC/baby-proof culture
Words are as strong you make them. Are those "bad words" are taboo in this culture, but they are just words.

I know it may hurt (some hurt alot), but that's life. What are you protecting the kids for? They would hear it anyway, and decide for themselves if they want to use those words or not. We aren't teaching the children a valuable lesson by pretending life is a cake walk where everything is pleasant

Just my thoughts

While I personally feel pretty close to this side of the issue myself, I just don't think Celticsblog should be at the head of the spear fighting against societal norms.

Like it or not, we live in a PC culture, and a PC culture breeds this idea that you need to be offended by everything, as well as the idea that the correct response to being offended is to then go on the offensive against the offending party.

So, until this part of the culture changes (and I think it will sooner rather than later), it is just not a battle you can expect us to fight in communities like this.  Frankly, there just is no way a bunch of volunteers can put out the fires it would start to allow that kind of language on here.

Yeah, totally agree with you there  TP
I guess it's just the way of the world