Political correctness on CelticsBlog...

[barefacedmonk]

ScoobyDoo, I'm not sure I understand what has got you so upset...your post was only "edited"...the main message that you were trying to convey was left unedited....people read it...understood what you were saying about the team's play....and because of that you have gone on to rant about the way the blog is run and how some people wear "diapers". Trying to get everybody else to see your point of view by saying those who don't see it your way, wear "diapers"...is that really the best way to convince anyone?

You're upset because the site rules require you to rephrase your opinion(s) differently? As far as I can tell, nobody here has "disciplined" you or warned you of any action.

I'd said this before...this site is a product...Jeff's product. You agreed to the terms and conditions (the rules) before using the site....just like Microsoft and other companies make you click that "I agree" button before proceeding.

Everyone faces hardships in their life at one time or other...does that give us a right to say whatever we want...unfiltered?

[Chris]

If someone came to visit you and then tried to tell you how to communicate in the confines of your own home wouldn't you be upset? CelticsBlog is essentially Jeff's house, we are his guests, so we must follow his rules. Simple as that.

It's not about rules or that there shouldn't be any. This is a discussion about how ridiculous some rules are and how extreme this one is. For the most part this is a great blog, but this is one aspect that could use improvement imo.

 

Let me put it to you simply.  If we did not have rules like that, it would lead to flame-wars, and we would end up having to suspend/ban good posters.

While I agree that context, etc. should play a bigger role rather than having blanket rules, our society is not there yet.  Right now, there are still plenty of people who get bent out of shape because of the use of certain words or phrases, regardless of context or intent.  I am personally not a fan of that, but I understand it is the case.  And as long as people do have such a strong, negative reaction to these things, we need to have blanket rules like that in order to maintain these forums as a place that meets our standards.

[Jeff]

well, this has been an interesting topic to discuss - and I admit I haven't had time to read through the whole thing

does anyone need me to address anything in particular?

[barefacedmonk]

does anyone need me to address anything in particular?

Yes....what happened to the free tickets giveaway this season?...j/k.

[angryguy77]

well, this has been an interesting topic to discuss - and I admit I haven't had time to read through the whole thing

does anyone need me to address anything in particular?

Can you bring Calvin and Hobbs back?

[Edgar]

well, this has been an interesting topic to discuss - and I admit I haven't had time to read through the whole thing

does anyone need me to address anything in particular?

I need a raise

[nickagneta]

well, this has been an interesting topic to discuss - and I admit I haven't had time to read through the whole thing

does anyone need me to address anything in particular?

Can you make the 30something crowd on this team all play like they were in their mid 20's for about 6 weeks?

[crownsy]

heaven forbid an actual forum have a set of moral values that strives to create an atmosphere that's family friendly.

look, sometimes I wanna swear, I wanna post jokes that are at best sexual innuendos. my facebook page is littered with this kind of stuff.

but you know, that's got its own place, and it ain't here.
sorry?

I remember when the blog had this as the default frame of mind, now it seems like everyone just wants to flame each other and kill posters for not taking sides or alternatively drinking the Kool aid. Oh to go back to those days :/

[Roy H.]

Well, my definition of PC is being able to speak metaphorically about issues. For example, being able to say after game two that "I felt like the Celtics like chicks in game two" and "they need to take the dresses off and start playing like men if they expect to win game three..." in other words, they need to get tougher and start laying some smack on people, which men are generally better at doing because of their physical make up.

Yes, but you see, your metaphors are based upon stereotypes.

What if you wanted to make a "metaphor" about somebody being cheap, and dropped a Jewish reference (but wrote "no offense")?  What if you started dropping some negative stereotypes about blacks or Hispanics (but again, apologized in advance)?

We don't allow the use of stereotypes on here, especially as related to gender, race, religion, etc.  That's not "politically correct", that's to make sure this is as friendly a place as possible for everybody.  You can insult the sensibilities of people who take offense by comparing them to babies, but in reality, women have the right to not be called "chicks" or to be used as the epitome of softness and weakness.

You said that your use of language would be perfectly acceptable on a basketball court.  You're probably correct.  However, CelticsBlog isn't a basketball court.  We strive to make this place friendly for everybody, including those that you consider too sensitive.

Lastly, let me agree with BFM here:

You're upset because the site rules require you to rephrase your opinion(s) differently? As far as I can tell, nobody here has "disciplined" you or warned you of any action.

In a thread which was riddled with gender stereotypes (something like 7 or 8 of them), we locked your thread, asked you to rephrase your opinion to comply with our rules, and encouraged you to repost your thoughts (which you declined to do).  You weren't disciplined, because we didn't think you had malicious intent.  At the same time, your thread was absolutely contrary to our clearly stated rules, and if I saw that thread 100 times, I'd lock it every time.

I guess I just don't see what's so important about using stereotypical metaphors.

[Jeff]

LOL, I'll work on it guys, no promises though

[ScoobyDoo]

Guys, I am not upset in the least, this has been an interesting debate. I also completely respect the rights of the creators of this blog to establish and enforce whatever rules they wish, that is their prerogative. I certainly wouldn't want someone telling me how to run my business.

I don't think that saying a guy is playing like a chick is stereotyping women at all. Bird said it about his teammates, it's a figure of speech used by guys who play ball, most of whom think women are in fact, anything but soft.

I didn't say people who disagree with me wear diapers and are babies. It was a metaphor about the state of PC and how ridiculous I think PC is. It had absolutely nothing to do with any specific person. I would never use a metaphor about race or ethnicity.

You know what, for God's sakes, I've had women say "don't act like a little Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline." or "stop playing like a chick" on the basketball court before if I complained about something. It's a completely harmless, irrelevant form of expression as far as basketball goes.

Bottom line, I'm not upset at all - I just think the world would be alot better off without overkill on PC and letting people hash things out for themselves.

However, my point and discussion was/is directed at PC in general in today's world, completely outside of this board. Even if I didn't agree with the PC environment here, I would/will abide by it without complaint moving forward.

It's not that important to me as far as this site is concerned.

[The4Time2Doctor0]

i was reprimanded years ago for insulting old people who dislike the later west coast start times. i thought it was a little goofy, but the rules are the rules; i decided to become a viewer of this site and not an active participant. if you don't like the rules you can start your own site. this site is not America, freedom of speech is not an entitlement here. this site is property of someone who wishes to keep this place what he considers to be civil. good on him.

[LooseCannon]

We don't allow the use of stereotypes on here, especially as related to gender, race, religion, etc.  That's not "politically correct", that's to make sure this is as friendly a place as possible for everybody.  You can insult the sensibilities of people who take offense by comparing them to babies, but in reality, women have the right to not be called "chicks" or to be used as the epitome of softness and weakness.

I think that is political correctness, but I also think that PC has its uses.  I don't think we should run away from the concept just because of a stereotype that its proponents are a bunch of crazy, touchy-feely hippies.

ScoobyDoo, anytime you want to compare someone to a woman because you think he is soft, perhaps you should take a step back and instead compare him to Sasha Vujacic.

[Neurotic Guy]

I do not think that 'political correctness' (a term introduced by conservaties to marginalize the opinions of those who speak out against the use of derogatory or stereotypical remarks toward groups of people) is ridiculous. 'PC' is just as American as the right to make derogatory stateements.  In other words, living in a 'PC' society doesn't mean you can't use comments that others may find offensive; it simply means that if you do, you need to be prepared for a social consequence (i.e., someone calling you on it).

Scooby-doo has the right in the real world (outside of a blog that controls such commentary) to say anything the heck he wants as long as it doesn't incite violence (I think there is a law against that).  'PC' just means that I have an equal right to say something like "please don't use those words".  That actually IS hashing it out. It means that you and I can argue about the merits of using words that offend people if we want to.  I shouldn't have to be dismissed as 'PC' simply for speaking my mind about language I don't like.

I grew up in a time when the N word, the K word (anti-Jewish term) and other ethnic and gender slurs were used routinely without social repurcussion.  I happen to  like the shift in society where people are now choosing to think about the words they use before saying whatever comment comes to mind.  That makes for a better social world in my opinion. 

Further, have 2 daughters (16 and 20) and I have come to the opinion that our society in many subtle, and not so subtle, ways continuously pounds away at the self-esteem of young women (with words and images).  This occurs to the point where virtues like kindness, intelligence, maturity, or hard work become secondary to physical appearance as a measure of self worth.  When you are watching your own children navigating through the world, it can lead to some different perspective as to power of words.

My daughters and all the daughters of fellow bloggers will deal with it in their own ways -- that's fine. I respect that in America people have the right to say whatever they  want even if they are told that something might feel offensive to others, or be marginalizing, or reinforce stereotypes.  At the same time American values should also support respect for the right of 'PC' folks to call them on it. 

[FallGuy]

I do not think that 'political correctness' (a term introduced by conservaties to marginalize the opinions of those who speak out against the use of derogatory or stereotypical remarks toward groups of people) is ridiculous. 'PC' is just as American as the right to make derogatory stateements.  In other words, living in a 'PC' society doesn't mean you can't use comments that others may find offensive; it simply means that if you do, you need to be prepared for a social consequence (i.e., someone calling you on it).

Scooby-doo has the right in the real world (outside of a blog that controls such commentary) to say anything the heck he wants as long as it doesn't incite violence (I think there is a law against that).  'PC' just means that I have an equal right to say something like "please don't use those words".  That actually IS hashing it out. It means that you and I can argue about the merits of using words that offend people if we want to.  I shouldn't have to be dismissed as 'PC' simply for speaking my mind about language I don't like.

I grew up in a time when the N word, the K word (anti-Jewish term) and other ethnic and gender slurs were used routinely without social repurcussion.  I happen to  like the shift in society where people are now choosing to think about the words they use before saying whatever comment comes to mind.  That makes for a better social world in my opinion. 

Further, have 2 daughters (16 and 20) and I have come to the opinion that our society in many subtle, and not so subtle, ways continuously pounds away at the self-esteem of young women (with words and images).  This occurs to the point where virtues like kindness, intelligence, maturity, or hard work become secondary to physical appearance as a measure of self worth.  When you are watching your own children navigating through the world, it can lead to some different perspective as to power of words.

My daughters and all the daughters of fellow bloggers will deal with it in their own ways -- that's fine. I respect that in America people have the right to say whatever they  want even if they are told that something might feel offensive to others, or be marginalizing, or reinforce stereotypes.  At the same time American values should also support respect for the right of 'PC' folks to call them on it. 

Lovely and nuanced. TP.