Kendrick Perkins is making a difference for OKC because of Ibaka??

[BudweiserCeltic]

Come on guys if Perk was playing like he's playing right now for the Thunder we would be pleading Doc to put JO back in.

This has little to do with the Thunder having a player called Perk, and more with the current team make-up.

If TA suddenly starts playing better because we got Nate Robinson it's not because Nate Robinson makes him a better player, it simply means that TA starts playing his position in his role of strength. Nothing more and nothing less. That's the type of phenomenon that is happening in the Thunder right now.

No doubt that Perk will make those guys better defensively, but Perk is not having the impact that he should at the moment. For example, watching the Denver game right now I've seen a couple of guys get to the basket quite easily with Perk on the floor and he's being very slow in transition.

[jdz101]

I'm much more inclined to say that Ibaka is making a difference because of Perk.

Agreed.

I don't think this is a stretch of an argument at all, and it's one that I've made myself.

The Perk trade freed Ibaka up.  Rather than having to defend the best opposing big man, he is now free to "roam" and gamble more, knowing that Perk has his back.  Perk's boxing out also leaves more
available rebounds, which Ibaka has benefited from.  However, the biggest factor has been giving him more defensive freedom.

I don't know who said this -- maybe it was Perk -- but to have a great defense, your big men need to work in tandem to cover for one another.  The Perk / KG combination worked very well, because Perk
 could defend the lane, while KG could roam and help and harass, and could feel free to disrupt on the perimeter.  Right now, Ibaka is like a mini-KG, playing the same role.

So your attributing ibaka's high rebound tally to perk boxing out for him and letting ibaka get all the stats? That is a stretch.

Presti paid 35 mill for a slow space clogger whose numbers are on a steady decline since he peaked years ago. Ibaka is an athletic young kid whose numbers are indicating he's heading towards his peak. To say those numbers are due to a horribly performing underdone centre next to him is A HUGE
STRETCH.

Perkins peaked years ago? and is on a decline? Talk about A HUGE STRETCH.

Numbers don't lie.

You're saying a guys play is going to improve after an ACL tear? I could write the size of stretch that is but id run out of characters.

Funny how collison is getting the same amount if not more minutes than perk at the moment. mega coincidental rotation? I think not.

[jdz101]

Yes, Presti is commonly known around the NBA as an idiot.

Cheers for being so patronizing.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Ibaka's strongest game so far, he played 39 minutes, grabbed 16 rebounds, scored 22 points. Perk played 19 minutes.

Let's give Ibaka the credit he's due.

[barefacedmonk]

I'm much more inclined to say that Ibaka is making a difference because of Perk.

Agreed.

I don't think this is a stretch of an argument at all, and it's one that I've made myself.

The Perk trade freed Ibaka up.  Rather than having to defend the best opposing big man, he is now free to "roam" and gamble more, knowing that Perk has his back.  Perk's boxing out also leaves more
available rebounds, which Ibaka has benefited from.  However, the biggest factor has been giving him more defensive freedom.

I don't know who said this -- maybe it was Perk -- but to have a great defense, your big men need to work in tandem to cover for one another.  The Perk / KG combination worked very well, because Perk
 could defend the lane, while KG could roam and help and harass, and could feel free to disrupt on the perimeter.  Right now, Ibaka is like a mini-KG, playing the same role.

So your attributing ibaka's high rebound tally to perk boxing out for him and letting ibaka get all the stats? That is a stretch.

Presti paid 35 mill for a slow space clogger whose numbers are on a steady decline since he peaked years ago. Ibaka is an athletic young kid whose numbers are indicating he's heading towards his peak. To say those numbers are due to a horribly performing underdone centre next to him is A HUGE
STRETCH.

Perkins peaked years ago? and is on a decline? Talk about A HUGE STRETCH.

Numbers don't lie.

You're saying a guys play is going to improve after an ACL tear? I could write the size of stretch that is but id run out of characters.

Funny how collison is getting the same amount if not more minutes than perk at the moment. mega coincidental rotation? I think not.

Saying he is on a decline because he is coming back from an injury...yes that's a stretch. I would have tried to show you how big of  a stretch that is..but I would have run of characters too....plus all those key strokes....

Are you the same guy who called Krstic a "double double machine"? It's funny people will use Krstic's numbers before his injury to praise him...but in Perk's case he is on a decline and peaked years ago.

[Celticsfan336]

I'm much more inclined to say that Ibaka is making a difference because of Perk.

Agreed.

I don't think this is a stretch of an argument at all, and it's one that I've made myself.

The Perk trade freed Ibaka up.  Rather than having to defend the best opposing big man, he is now free to "roam" and gamble more, knowing that Perk has his back.  Perk's boxing out also leaves more
available rebounds, which Ibaka has benefited from.  However, the biggest factor has been giving him more defensive freedom.

I don't know who said this -- maybe it was Perk -- but to have a great defense, your big men need to work in tandem to cover for one another.  The Perk / KG combination worked very well, because Perk
 could defend the lane, while KG could roam and help and harass, and could feel free to disrupt on the perimeter.  Right now, Ibaka is like a mini-KG, playing the same role.

So your attributing ibaka's high rebound tally to perk boxing out for him and letting ibaka get all the stats? That is a stretch.

Presti paid 35 mill for a slow space clogger whose numbers are on a steady decline since he peaked years ago. Ibaka is an athletic young kid whose numbers are indicating he's heading towards his peak. To say those numbers are due to a horribly performing underdone centre next to him is A HUGE STRETCH.

You must have not watched the Celtics for the last 4-5 years. Not only is he a great tenacious defender, he is a quarterback of their defense now. He brings intangibles unmeasured, especially to the Thunder. Perks numbers are the last thing we care about. Also, who is going to cover Bynum? Perkins or Ibaka? Who is going to intimate Kobe driving? Perkins or Ibaka? Who helps one another more? Perkins or Ibaka.


Perkins

[jdz101]

I'm much more inclined to say that Ibaka is making a difference because of Perk.

Agreed.

I don't think this is a stretch of an argument at all, and it's one that I've made myself.

The Perk trade freed Ibaka up.  Rather than having to defend the best opposing big man, he is now free to "roam" and gamble more, knowing that Perk has his back.  Perk's boxing out also leaves more
available rebounds, which Ibaka has benefited from.  However, the biggest factor has been giving him more defensive freedom.

I don't know who said this -- maybe it was Perk -- but to have a great defense, your big men need to work in tandem to cover for one another.  The Perk / KG combination worked very well, because Perk
 could defend the lane, while KG could roam and help and harass, and could feel free to disrupt on the perimeter.  Right now, Ibaka is like a mini-KG, playing the same role.

So your attributing ibaka's high rebound tally to perk boxing out for him and letting ibaka get all the stats? That is a stretch.

Presti paid 35 mill for a slow space clogger whose numbers are on a steady decline since he peaked years ago. Ibaka is an athletic young kid whose numbers are indicating he's heading towards his peak. To say those numbers are due to a horribly performing underdone centre next to him is A HUGE
STRETCH.

Perkins peaked years ago? and is on a decline? Talk about A HUGE STRETCH.

Numbers don't lie.

You're saying a guys play is going to improve after an ACL tear? I could write the size of stretch that is but id run out of characters.

Funny how collison is getting the same amount if not more minutes than perk at the moment. mega coincidental rotation? I think not.

Saying he is on a decline because he is coming back from an injury...yes that's a stretch. I would have tried to show you how big of  a stretch that is..but I would have run of characters too....plus all those key strokes....

Are you the same guy who called Krstic a "double double machine"? It's funny people will use Krstic's numbers before his injury to praise him...but in Perk's case he is on a decline and peaked years ago.

Nah I've never said anything about krstic. You've got the wrong guy there.

You find me improved individual numbers of an NBA player that have improved after serious knee problems. I'll start you off with two examples to the contrary. Tracy mcgrady and gilbert arenas.

My argument is not one for or against the trade, but one of perk being a fairly insignificant loss.

I would DEARLY LOVE someone to point to some individual NUMBERS in perks play to prove otherwise.

[GreenFaith1819]

I'm much more inclined to say that Ibaka is making a difference because of Perk.

Agreed.

I don't think this is a stretch of an argument at all, and it's one that I've made myself.

The Perk trade freed Ibaka up.  Rather than having to defend the best opposing big man, he is now free to "roam" and gamble more, knowing that Perk has his back.  Perk's boxing out also leaves more available rebounds, which Ibaka has benefited from.  However, the biggest factor has been giving him more defensive freedom.

I don't know who said this -- maybe it was Perk -- but to have a great defense, your big men need to work in tandem to cover for one another.  The Perk / KG combination worked very well, because Perk could defend the lane, while KG could roam and help and harass, and could feel free to disrupt on the perimeter.  Right now, Ibaka is like a mini-KG, playing the same role.

Agreed with both. And from what I've seen of Perk so far, he looks (to me) no more or less mobile than he did when he was here healthy. Perk was never a quick or fast guy - he's basically a block of granite. But he takes up space and defends well in one spot - essentially allowing Serge to roam, like discussed above.

I think he's a great fit with Serge.

[BballTim]

I'm much more inclined to say that Ibaka is making a difference because of Perk.

Agreed.

I don't think this is a stretch of an argument at all, and it's one that I've made myself.

The Perk trade freed Ibaka up.  Rather than having to defend the best opposing big man, he is now free to "roam" and gamble more, knowing that Perk has his back.  Perk's boxing out also leaves more
available rebounds, which Ibaka has benefited from.  However, the biggest factor has been giving him more defensive freedom.

I don't know who said this -- maybe it was Perk -- but to have a great defense, your big men need to work in tandem to cover for one another.  The Perk / KG combination worked very well, because Perk
 could defend the lane, while KG could roam and help and harass, and could feel free to disrupt on the perimeter.  Right now, Ibaka is like a mini-KG, playing the same role.

So your attributing ibaka's high rebound tally to perk boxing out for him and letting ibaka get all the stats? That is a stretch.

Presti paid 35 mill for a slow space clogger whose numbers are on a steady decline since he peaked years ago. Ibaka is an athletic young kid whose numbers are indicating he's heading towards his peak. To say those numbers are due to a horribly performing underdone centre next to him is A HUGE
STRETCH.

Perkins peaked years ago? and is on a decline? Talk about A HUGE STRETCH.

Numbers don't lie.

You're saying a guys play is going to improve after an ACL tear? I could write the size of stretch that is but id run out of characters.

Funny how collison is getting the same amount if not more minutes than perk at the moment. mega coincidental rotation? I think not.

  You're right, the numbers don't lie. Perk's numbers didn't peak years ago, and they haven't been on the decline. 2009-2010 was clearly his best year.

[barefacedmonk]

You find me improved individual numbers of an NBA player that have improved after serious knee problems. I'll start you off with two examples to the contrary. Tracy mcgrady and gilbert arenas.

My argument is not one for or against the trade, but one of perk being a fairly insignificant loss.

I would DEARLY LOVE someone to point to some individual NUMBERS in perks play to prove otherwise.

The difference in KG's play from last year is there for everyone to see. I know he didn't have a knee injury...but it was serious enough to make him miss a big chunk of the regular season and the playoffs.

Perk will be a better player next year as he will be more healthy. To say "he peaked years ago" and that "he is on a decline" is a stretch...you can use caps for added emphasis if you'd like.

[Roy H.]

You find me improved individual numbers of an NBA player that have improved after serious knee problems. I'll start you off with two examples to the contrary. Tracy mcgrady and gilbert arenas.

Amare Stoudamire came back improved from the dreaded microfracture surgery and is as good or better than before.

Andrew Bynum put up better numbers post knee surgery than prior, although some improvement was naturally expected.

Zach Randolph continues to put up big numbers after microfracture surgery.

Those are just guys off the top of my head who are still playing in this year's playoffs.  A return from knee surgery isn't necessarily the career killer that it used to be, although it can obviously have a major effect on some players.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I watched all of OKC's playoff games, to me, they played better against Den when Perk wasn't out there... especially when Ibaka was in. People are giving Perk way too much credit for Ibaka stepping his game up because when Perk is out of the game (he only get's like 24) who do you give Ibaka's great playing cred to, the other center out there? I think the OKC defense is so good because of Ibaka (his minutes and he is now the starter), if Ibaca goes down... OKC would not have beaten DEN! If it's because of Perk couldn't you just exchange any 4 for Ibaka and get the same results? Yes, you can put in their other center and get similar (better to me) results as if Perk was in, I have seen that when Perk sits! Now, when OKC faces a slower opponent then the play of Perk would/should be more vital.

[CelticG1]

You find me improved individual numbers of an NBA player that have improved after serious knee problems. I'll start you off with two examples to the contrary. Tracy mcgrady and gilbert arenas.

My argument is not one for or against the trade, but one of perk being a fairly insignificant loss.

I would DEARLY LOVE someone to point to some individual NUMBERS in perks play to prove otherwise.

The difference in KG's play from last year is there for everyone to see. I know he didn't have a knee injury...but it was serious enough to make him miss a big chunk of the regular season and the playoffs.

Perk will be a better player next year as he will be more healthy. To say "he peaked years ago" and that "he is on a decline" is a stretch...you can use caps for added emphasis if you'd like.

I don't think Perk has peaked years ago but I think he is certainly in his prime and I don't see him getting significantly better. He will never even be close to an all star level player. He's a good defensive center but if he is a a top4 player on your team than your team probably isn't that good

[barefacedmonk]

You find me improved individual numbers of an NBA player that have improved after serious knee problems. I'll start you off with two examples to the contrary. Tracy mcgrady and gilbert arenas.

My argument is not one for or against the trade, but one of perk being a fairly insignificant loss.

I would DEARLY LOVE someone to point to some individual NUMBERS in perks play to prove otherwise.

The difference in KG's play from last year is there for everyone to see. I know he didn't have a knee injury...but it was serious enough to make him miss a big chunk of the regular season and the playoffs.

Perk will be a better player next year as he will be more healthy. To say "he peaked years ago" and that "he is on a decline" is a stretch...you can use caps for added emphasis if you'd like.

I don't think Perk has peaked years ago but I think he is certainly in his prime and I don't see him getting significantly better. He will never even be close to an all star level player. He's a good defensive center but if he is a a top4 player on your team than your team probably isn't that good

Nobody has called Perk an all star. He isn't one..and he wasn't traded for one.

[manbehindtheman]

The people that are ragging on Perk. are terribly ungrateful regarding his worth/intangibles.  We will miss what he brought in every round of the playoffs from here on out.