Do the Celtics Need a Pure Point Guard Off the Bench?

[Jon]

Answer, someone like Carlos Arroyo.  Steve Nash isn't coming here to play 5 mpg behind Rondo.  

I'm not expecting Steve Nash, just a guy who is good enough to be a one-year stop-gap temporary starter as a below-average NBA starting point guard for a team with an injury or a rookie they are bringing along slowly.  If you had your choice of Carlos Arroyo (or a player with a similar skill set) vs. Anthony Carter (or a player with a similar skill set) vs. praying that Delonte West is healthy and/or Avery Bradley develops into a PG, which option do you prefer?  If you trust in Delonte, what do you like as plan B?

I think Anthony Carter is an inferior playmaker to Carlos Arroyo.  I think what Carter has on Arroyo is first and foremost less depth to compete with.  Carter would be on the inactive list if he was on the Celtics right now too.  Second, I think Carter is a superior defender, which is why D'Antoni (I know, I'm shocked too that Mike is going with a defender) is putting him out there.  

However, I don't think we're going to see much of Carter the rest of the series if Billups indeed comes back on Friday.  He really was only used to guard Ray Allen in Game 1, and Ray abused him.  

[Moranis]

Arroyo is a pure PG, but he is terrible.  The C's absolutely need a pure PG on the bench that doesn't suck.  It needs to be a guy that if Rondo misses 5 games in a row you are going to feel ok with starting.  And most champions have that guy.  The Lakers have had Farmar, the Spurs have had Udrih, the Heat had Payton, etc.  Not world beaters, but guys that you could trust if needed and guys that can actually run the second unit.

[Jon]

Arroyo is a pure PG, but he is terrible.  The C's absolutely need a pure PG on the bench that doesn't suck.  It needs to be a guy that if Rondo misses 5 games in a row you are going to feel ok with starting.  And most champions have that guy.  The Lakers have had Farmar, the Spurs have had Udrih, the Heat had Payton, etc.  Not world beaters, but guys that you could trust if needed and guys that can actually run the second unit.

Here's the problem.  Rondo is going to play 40+ minutes per game in the playoffs.  So unless the guy can play some 2 as well, he's going to get very, very minimal minutes here.  

And here's the other problem, at the 2, we have Ray Allen, who is going to play close to 40 mpg too, so there's not even many minutes there.  

Quite frankly, no one better than Delonte West is going to want to walk into that situation.  Even aging point guards looking for that elusive ring would be better served going to somewhere like Miami where they could potentially start. 

[lrybrd]

They need someone like Jarret Jack.  Can distribute, score and can play along side Rondo on occasions. 

[Who]

I think Anthony Carter is an inferior playmaker to Carlos Arroyo.  

Agreed -- Carter is an inferior playmaker, inferior offensive player and inferior overall player versus Arroyo

[Jon]

They need someone like Jarret Jack.  Can distribute, score and can play along side Rondo on occasions. 

So you mean someone like Delonte West?  

[Brendan]

I think this comes down to three issues rotations, chemistry, and execution.

I blame Doc for the rotation issues. I don't think he's maximizing the roster he has - I don't know enough to say if trying something strange (the extreme being something like using Pierce off the bench in a Manu role and the less extreme being starting BBD and KG, to minimize the minutes where neither KG or JO is on the floor) would just backfire, but I think some small tweaks could keep the team more effective. Examples - lineup Ray Allen's minutes so he always plays with Rondo. Lineup Rondo's and Pierce's rest periods so one of them is always on the floor. As an outsider, it seems like the roster is more talented and Doc needs to put it together a bit differently to make it work.

I blame the DA and outside circumstances for the chemistry issues: guys being injured for the whole year (West, Shaq, JO) is probably beyond his control (although you sorta expect that with at least one of the three when they have those histories), and trading at the deadline to shake up the top 9 didn't help. (On the other hand, RR, RA, PP, KG, BBD are getting the most minutes and have played together forever, West and JO though injured have been here all year.) Either way this cannot be fixed now.

I blame execution on the players Green, BBD, West are all under performing their abilities (while BBD is probably right where he should be, but he's under performing his reputation.) Mostly this can be seen when West and Green don't take wide open shots they should, or when Baby continues to launch shots he misses. A "true PG" is usually code for someone who can: 1. bring the ball up, 2. run the offense, 3. get guys their shots. When Green and West are passing up open shots and BBD is missing open shots - I don't see how a true PG off the bench will help things. (Caveat unless that PG off the bench ran a great fast break, but I don't think this C's team runs that well with Rondo, so I don't see that changing with a bench PG in.)

[LooseCannon]

Should Rondo be playing 40+ minutes per game, though?  Even Rondo can get tired.  And when he gets tired, he may start walking the ball up the court and stop pushing the offense.  Sometimes, I get the sense that there are people on this board who think that Rondo can and should play 44mpg in the playoffs and if he doesn't (or if he does and doesn't play well) then that is proof that he is some lazy slacker whose heart and mind isn't 100% on the game.

I'm not looking for some veteran ring hunter, just a career backup with a reputation for doing the "little things".  I'd probably prefer a decent defender who's not a good shooter over a good shooter with poor defense.

If it has to be a combo guard, then one who is more of a point guard than a shooting guard.  (What combo guards fit that description?)

There is a part of me that thinks about Earl Boykins based solely on the fact that posters on some Lakers boards seem to be scared of Boykins as one of the most devastating "Laker killers" who always have good games against LA.

[Tai]

I suppose a better question is do they need a GOOD point guard off the bench, pure or unpure. I guess the OP doesn't approve of D-West, but I agree that he's much better than people give him credit for. It's just unfortunate that he's been injured all season, but I think he works just fine. We'd probably have to trade someone on our team who's good to get a "good" backup PG. Then again, I think D-West is fine.

[Mr October]

I dont think the Celtics need a pure PG off the bench for 2 reasons:

1. A pure point guard with all the skills we want him to have is going to be out of the C's price range, and he probably would not accept a 1-2 year deal.

2. That same PG would not be happy playing 9 minutes per game.

I'd rather role with a combo guard like Delonte West. He handles well enough, plays hard and can hit the outside shot.

Arroyo is fine insurance behind him.

[coco]

Do the Celtics Need a Pure Point Guard Off the Bench?

Well, In my opinion it doesn't matter.  Doc would still play Rondo 42mins plus thru out the playoffs....as compared to DRose not even reaching 40mins with a much lesser backup pg than the Cs CArroyo/DWest combo.

...that's just Doc

[Brendan]

I dunno how many minutes Rondo can/should play. Somewhere between 36 and 42 seems right to me, but occasionally higher is okay. With Green, you can get a backup PG for just 10 MPG and then play Green at SF only, Ray at SG only, and Pierce fills the gaps. I'd rather just have more talent than less and more positional flexibility than less on the team, and I think DWest is a good fit for that role.

[Moranis]

Arroyo is a pure PG, but he is terrible.  The C's absolutely need a pure PG on the bench that doesn't suck.  It needs to be a guy that if Rondo misses 5 games in a row you are going to feel ok with starting.  And most champions have that guy.  The Lakers have had Farmar, the Spurs have had Udrih, the Heat had Payton, etc.  Not world beaters, but guys that you could trust if needed and guys that can actually run the second unit.

Here's the problem.  Rondo is going to play 40+ minutes per game in the playoffs.  So unless the guy can play some 2 as well, he's going to get very, very minimal minutes here.  

And here's the other problem, at the 2, we have Ray Allen, who is going to play close to 40 mpg too, so there's not even many minutes there.  

Quite frankly, no one better than Delonte West is going to want to walk into that situation.  Even aging point guards looking for that elusive ring would be better served going to somewhere like Miami where they could potentially start. 

40+ minutes is just too many.  No one should be playing that many minutes even in the playoffs (and no Celtic really came all that close when we won the title).  It isn't healthy for the team or the players because they get fatigued and tire out when you really need them.  The reason Rondo plays that many minutes is the Celtics don't have a credible back up that can legitimately handle that role.  Rondo played 32 minutes a game when we won the title because Sam I Am and House were there giving him solid support at the point.  It also isn't a coincidence that the offense on that team was more effective.

[SHAQATTACK]

The Bull ride D Rose like a horse. He barely is ever out of a game. As sonn as he goes out , so goes the lead . Same with Koby at LA. 

MUch of the time Rondo is waht makes the Celtics.  Spelling him good in the regualr season is ok.  But, in the Playoffs , you gotta ride that horse. No saving , everygame is a must win, when you get lead , you gotta hold it , and Doc feels like hes gotta go with who can git er dun.

Look , same with Dwight Howard, he never rests.

Nope ......gotta use your best AS much as possible to keep advancing. 

[Who]

I'd like to see Rondo play around 34 minutes a game during the regular season. I thought he played too many minutes this year. I'd like to cut that back down from 37 to 34. Do a better job of keeping fresh during the season.

Then step it up to about 36-38 minutes in the playoffs ... with Rondo playing extended minutes (40-42mpg) where necessary (say against Derrick Rose and the Bulls).