Author Topic: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)  (Read 6705 times)

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Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2011, 06:33:10 PM »

Offline RedsCeltics34

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This is one of the funniest articles I've ever read. When Rose scores 60 in his 1st playoff series as a rookie let me know Oh, too late.

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2011, 07:21:11 PM »

Offline dtrader

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Either people didn't actually take the time to read what wilbon said, or they didn't comprehend it.  He did NOT say Rose is the new Jordan. He did NOT say Rose is as good as jordan.

Ehhh, I think you're at once giving his (Wilbon's) fence sitting a bit too much credit here, and not giving our readers (and myself, as I started the piece) enough.

First off, just simply saying "you either didn't read, or didn't comprehend" is a bit of an offensive implication that you ought to be able to back up. I don't think anyone here is under the assumption that Wilbon is implying any more than he says outright.

The byline, under the article's title:
Quote
Rose is shouldering the load the way Jordan did, and so far he's met every challenge

A hyperbolic qualifier followed by a hyperbolic refutation:
Quote
You look at the Chicago Bulls struggling with the Indiana Pacers and you know they could use another scorer, that they have nobody on the roster for whom an open shot is automatic. You keep thinking that the Bulls rely so much on one player to score, to pass, to rally and to lead that it's all going to fall apart at some point in these playoffs, which is why some folks keep picking Miami or Boston in the East.

And then you see him do it again and again and again, even into the NBA playoffs, and you start to wonder if anything in basketball is beyond the kid.

Another direct comparison:

Quote
But once again it was Rose who carried the Bulls to playoff victory the way Michael Jordan used to: 36 points two nights after he scored 39, 12 of 13 free throws two nights after making 19 of 21, eight rebounds, six assists.

Half-hearted conditional qualifier (a pretty good sign someone is going to say something ridiculous:

Quote
OK, I'm about wander into territory I swore for the past 13 years I wouldn't wander into, because whenever a sportswriter has dared to compare a guy -- even Kobe Bryant -- to Jordan, my head explodes, because it's completely irresponsible … but here goes anyway.

The ridiculous thing that's being said:

Quote
This is so much like early Jordan it's scary. You couldn't have followed the '90s Bulls and not remember the nearly identical questions about the Bulls being too dependent on Jordan's scoring, about whether the team was really a contender if he had to average 40 in the first round against Cleveland, about whether any of his teammates were going to take the pressure off of him in the fourth quarter. We wondered and wondered until it was clear that Jordan was virtually infallible on the basketball court, particularly in pressure situations.

In that way and to this point, only, Rose reminds me absolutely of Jordan.

The Half-hearted attempt to distance himself from that statement:

Quote
Yes, Rose has a long, long, long way to go before he compares favorably with the 1990 Jordan, who was by then the best player in the league and on the cusp of winning a championship. Rose is only halfway to winning his first playoff series, and trust me, the games in Indianapolis are going to be a war, because the Pacers are certain they can still win this series.

There are lots, and I repeat LOTS of people who have done what Derrick Rose is doing up until this point in his career. Tracy McGrady rings a bell. This statement is utterly and completely hyperbolic and ridiculous, because frankly, you don't compare someone to Michael Jordan because they're doing things other people have also done. You didn't say "That Deke Mutombo is a heck of a shot blocker, he's just like Bill Russell." You don't say "That guy sure is a heck of a hitter, just like Lou Gerhig", or "Wow, look..that infielder hasn't missed a game all season. Just like Cal Ripken."

You compare someone to Jordan in the frame of a career, because up until Jordan started winning championships, what he was doing wasn't in fact special in the context of league history. Ask Nique, or Mitch Richmond, or Paul Pierce prior to 2008. Lots of people have been able score at will in the regular season and first round of the playoffs (and against an 8 seed with suspect defense, no less).  

Michael Wilbon knows exactly the images and emotions he's eliciting by comparing someone to Jordan, and that's the reason why it took Kobe Bryant 5 championships just to get to the point where people don't spontaneously break out into violent bursts of rage when people compare him to Jordan. And, all he gets is "Yeah, I guess...kinda."

I don't know if its the same where you guys are (I imagine its not, because it seems like a distinctly canadian thing..maybe Minor league baseball would be a good comparison), but this reminds me of when I used to go watch my friend play in Junior A hockey games in Canada. A kid, usually around 15 or so would swing the stick and get a shot off, and someone would say, "Wow...kid's got a slapshot just like Gretzky."

And then someone would laugh.




First, I'd like to say that you're right in that my wording did not give you enough credit, and may have been (unintentionally) offensive. I wrote it quickly, and would have been better of using a different word than "comprehend". It sounds elitist, and isn't my intention.  I do however stand by my premise, that anyone mad at wilbon may not have..lets say "fully understood" what he's saying.

The piece is not about comparing Rose to Jordan in terms of his basketball ability.  It is about comparing them in terms of intangibles (most notably burden bearing). Thats why he starts it by saying he's "shouldering the load" like jordan.

Then in the section about him doing it "again and again", he is talking about Rose stepping up for those relying on him. That is where he says nothing is beyond him. It isn't about his skills being limitless, but his ability to step up to expectations.

Where you said it's a "direct comparison"...again, he isn't comparing them as players. He's not saying Rose shot, defended, passed, or anything like Jordan...just that he "carried the bulls" the same way

The "ridiculous thing being said" that you pointed out, isn't even really a statement about Rose as a player. It's a statement about the questions surrounding his meaning to this Bulls team.  Wilbon says that Rose has a long way to go before he's close to the player Jordan was, but right now his significance to this Bulls team, and his ability to elevate himself to meet their needs reminds him "absolutely of jordan"

I don't remember many players that have meant as much to (and elevated their game to meet the needs of) their organization as Rose. T Mac was a singular talent in his prime, but he was NEVER any franchises everything like Rose is.  Some would say he never elevated his game to will his team to win like Rose has either.

Again, Wilbon is not comparing them as players, or saying anything about their skills being equal (or even similar).  He is comparing their intangibles.

It's not like seeing a kid and saying "his slap shot is like Gretzky"...It's like seeing a kid that never gives up on his training to get better, and saying that his "drive reminds you absolutely of Gretzky"...big difference.

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2011, 08:10:43 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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It's not like seeing a kid and saying "his slap shot is like Gretzky"...It's like seeing a kid that never gives up on his training to get better, and saying that his "drive reminds you absolutely of Gretzky"...big difference.

Yeah, but in my mind, both of those comparisons absolutely ridiculous, and can only be taken as hyperbolic, or in the very least in poor taste. And as far as the "he's comparing the questions", or the "he's comparing them as players, not how he shoots/passes"..there are dozens of other NBA players who have done what Jordan did before he 'became Jordan', and other players you could've compared Rose to. Maybe that's how you took it, but look at it through the context of a Chicago writer, about a Chicago player, in a town where they have been looking for someone to anoint since Jordan left.

I don't agree with your interpretation of the article, it would mean that Wilbon was writing without the social context of his town, and in that regard, a bit obtusely. I can imagine that Wilbon can be a bit obtuse (i do end up watching his show every day), but Wilbon isn't that obtuse.

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Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2011, 08:31:26 PM »

Offline dtrader

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It's not like seeing a kid and saying "his slap shot is like Gretzky"...It's like seeing a kid that never gives up on his training to get better, and saying that his "drive reminds you absolutely of Gretzky"...big difference.

Yeah, but in my mind, both of those comparisons absolutely ridiculous, and can only be taken as hyperbolic, or in the very least in poor taste. And as far as the "he's comparing the questions", or the "he's comparing them as players, not how he shoots/passes"..there are dozens of other NBA players who have done what Jordan did before he 'became Jordan', and other players you could've compared Rose to. Maybe that's how you took it, but look at it through the context of a Chicago writer, about a Chicago player, in a town where they have been looking for someone to anoint since Jordan left.

I don't agree with your interpretation of the article, it would mean that Wilbon was writing without the social context of his town, and in that regard, a bit obtusely. I can imagine that Wilbon can be a bit obtuse (i do end up watching his show every day), but Wilbon isn't that obtuse.

Exactly...as a Chicago writer, from Chicago, in a town where they've wanted to anoint the next Jordan, Wilbon essentially HAD to use Jordan for the comparison.  His whole point, is that Rose means more to his team, and elevates his game to meet his teams expectations like no one else. Who else could a Chicago writer, from Chicago,etc. use as a comparison?  It's not that it doesn't make sense, but that it is the ONLY choice that makes sense. 

I personally don't know of any other player that would have been a more suitable comparison given those criteria, but even if there was a better candidate, it wouldn't make any sense for him to be chosen over Jordan for this instance.  That's the opposite of being obtuse...he realizes EXACTLY what Rose is, and what Chicagoans are feeling watching him, and he wrote a piece that captures that. 

If he was really comparing them as players, I'd agree it was crazy, but to basically compare them in terms of what they mean to their franchise...I dont think anyone BUT a Chicago writer, in Chicago has any place doing that

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2011, 12:10:14 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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The media is always looking for the next Jordan.
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