Author Topic: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)  (Read 6705 times)

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Offline indeedproceed

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OK, I'm about wander into territory I swore for the past 13 years I wouldn't wander into, because whenever a sportswriter has dared to compare a guy -- even Kobe Bryant -- to Jordan, my head explodes, because it's completely irresponsible … but here goes anyway.

This is so much like early Jordan it's scary. You couldn't have followed the '90s Bulls and not remember the nearly identical questions about the Bulls being too dependent on Jordan's scoring, about whether the team was really a contender if he had to average 40 in the first round against Cleveland, about whether any of his teammates were going to take the pressure off of him in the fourth quarter. We wondered and wondered until it was clear that Jordan was virtually infallible on the basketball court, particularly in pressure situations.

In that way and to this point, only, Rose reminds me absolutely of Jordan.

Yes, Rose has a long, long, long way to go before he compares favorably with the 1990 Jordan, who was by then the best player in the league and on the cusp of winning a championship. Rose is only halfway to winning his first playoff series, and trust me, the games in Indianapolis are going to be a war, because the Pacers are certain they can still win this series.

The truly great players are at their best wearing the road jerseys, as if the defiance drives them more than the cheers. Rose is just now coming to that point of the program. But it's impossible not to consider what Thomas said after Game 2, about Rose's demeanor, his diligence, his humility. When congratulations were offered Monday night, Rose wanted none of it.

Shocker....it makes Wilbon's head explode when other writers compare other players to Jordan, but when Wilbon does it for a Chicago (his hometown and former beat) player, its 'okay'.

This would be akin to Bill Simmons comparing Adam Morrison to Larry Bird while Morrison was still at Gonzaga and still looking like a player.

Gross. I was firmly in the "I hope the Pacers get them to 6 games, but I hope that Indiana loses the series" camp because I wanted Boston to beat Chicago...now, I don't care. I hope the Pacers win 4 straight starting on Thursday.

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Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2011, 11:12:48 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Comparing current players to Jordan is the basketball equivalent of comparing current politicians to Hitler.  Any valid points you might raise get drowned out by such an extreme comparison.  Wilbon should know better. 

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2011, 11:15:15 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Comparing current players to Jordan is the basketball equivalent of comparing current politicians to Hitler.  Any valid points you might raise get drowned out by such an extreme comparison.  Wilbon should know better. 

Agree 100%.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2011, 11:22:23 AM »

Offline dtrader

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Comparing current players to Jordan is the basketball equivalent of comparing current politicians to Hitler.  Any valid points you might raise get drowned out by such an extreme comparison.  Wilbon should know better. 

lol...If this was an SAT question it'd be "current players are to current politicians, as jordan is to________" Answer= Hitler.
Couldn't we have put Abe lincoln or someone in there instead of Hitler? lol

Then again...maybe it fits, cuz they were both killers  :-X

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2011, 11:34:15 AM »

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Don't waste time with the argument that it's only the Pacers, the seven-games-under-.500 Pacers, because the Pacers have a better roster by miles than fourth-seeded Orlando and play with a passion the Atlanta Hawks couldn't possibly understand.

Whichever of those two the Bulls get in the second round won't come close to testing the Bulls the way the Pacers will over this series.

Wow, I never knew the Pacers were so good.

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2011, 11:38:46 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Don't waste time with the argument that it's only the Pacers, the seven-games-under-.500 Pacers, because the Pacers have a better roster by miles than fourth-seeded Orlando and play with a passion the Atlanta Hawks couldn't possibly understand.

Whichever of those two the Bulls get in the second round won't come close to testing the Bulls the way the Pacers will over this series.

Wow, I never knew the Pacers were so good.
Two close games versus the "new" Jordon tends to mess up people's perceptions of reality.

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2011, 11:41:33 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Quote
Don't waste time with the argument that it's only the Pacers, the seven-games-under-.500 Pacers, because the Pacers have a better roster by miles than fourth-seeded Orlando and play with a passion the Atlanta Hawks couldn't possibly understand.

Whichever of those two the Bulls get in the second round won't come close to testing the Bulls the way the Pacers will over this series.

Wow, I never knew the Pacers were so good.

The Pacers are the Maginot Line of the 2011 playoffs :P

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2011, 11:43:34 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous (ever for a homer like Wilbon).

It's hard to predict how good Rose can get, but MVP or not, he isn't hands-down one of the best players in the world.

I don't get it. He is an explosive scorer who finds open men for assists.

He's a more efficient (slightly) Iverson. An Iverson that was, for a while, a guy the media ate up. He won MVP's and scoring title's.

I think Rose can be a better player than AI, but there is a significant gap between him and Jordan.
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Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2011, 11:51:53 AM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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It would take pumping about one more pound of air in Wilbon's head to make it explode.  There's nothing up there except air.

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2011, 11:53:29 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Don't waste time with the argument that it's only the Pacers, the seven-games-under-.500 Pacers, because the Pacers have a better roster by miles than fourth-seeded Orlando and play with a passion the Atlanta Hawks couldn't possibly understand.

Whichever of those two the Bulls get in the second round won't come close to testing the Bulls the way the Pacers will over this series.

Wow, I never knew the Pacers were so good.

The Pacers are the Maginot Line of the 2011 playoffs :P

And now I know what this means!


"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2011, 12:08:24 PM »

Offline RJ87

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Am I the only person who read this and saw no issue? He doesn't really go as far as saying Rose is as good as or going to be as good as Jordan. Wilbon simply says the situation is similar, with a lot of people believing the Bulls depend too much on Rose's scoring ability - which is true, and the demeanors of both players.

I know a lot of people around secretly fear the Bulls, but right now Rose is one of the best players in the league. I've been watching the team recently, and he's developing a killer instinct - in the 4th quarter of both playoff games, he didn't hesitate to take over. In that first game especially, he just couldn't be stopped in that 4th quarter.

Furthermore, the kid is only 22 years old... If/when he starts to apply that same quickness and relentless agression on the defensive end... yikes.
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Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2011, 12:26:07 PM »

Offline dtrader

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Either people didn't actually take the time to read what wilbon said, or they didn't comprehend it.  He did NOT say Rose is the new Jordan. He did NOT say Rose is as good as jordan.

All he said, was that the situation with Rose's performance, and the way his team seems excessively dependent on him, is in his opinion the same as the situation Jordan experienced early in his career.  How is that off base?  How is that an example of him being a "homer" or big headed?

It seems like a perfectly reasonable observation to me.

Also..Rose IS "hands down one of the greatest players in the world".  That doesn't mean he's THE best (or even top 5), but he is certainly one of the best (as was AI in his prime).  Any player who can (for large stretches of time) appear unstoppable versus the worlds best competition, has the right to that title.

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2011, 12:39:52 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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He most certainly is talking him up as the "new" Jordan. He talks up the similarities of their situations, criticisms of their teams, etc...

He doesn't say he's as good as him, but he does directly compare him to Jordan.(before he was a NBA champion). That's pretty much how all of these articles work, you proclaim your love of Jordan and how unique a force/talent he was. Then you immediately declare the new star as shockingly like him, etc. etc. etc.

Its been done for Kobe, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, on and on....

The icing on the cake is where he is claiming the Pacers are the fourth best team in the East because they played the Bulls close for two games.

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2011, 12:52:04 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Either people didn't actually take the time to read what wilbon said, or they didn't comprehend it.  He did NOT say Rose is the new Jordan. He did NOT say Rose is as good as jordan.

Ehhh, I think you're at once giving his (Wilbon's) fence sitting a bit too much credit here, and not giving our readers (and myself, as I started the piece) enough.

First off, just simply saying "you either didn't read, or didn't comprehend" is a bit of an offensive implication that you ought to be able to back up. I don't think anyone here is under the assumption that Wilbon is implying any more than he says outright.

The byline, under the article's title:
Quote
Rose is shouldering the load the way Jordan did, and so far he's met every challenge

A hyperbolic qualifier followed by a hyperbolic refutation:
Quote
You look at the Chicago Bulls struggling with the Indiana Pacers and you know they could use another scorer, that they have nobody on the roster for whom an open shot is automatic. You keep thinking that the Bulls rely so much on one player to score, to pass, to rally and to lead that it's all going to fall apart at some point in these playoffs, which is why some folks keep picking Miami or Boston in the East.

And then you see him do it again and again and again, even into the NBA playoffs, and you start to wonder if anything in basketball is beyond the kid.

Another direct comparison:

Quote
But once again it was Rose who carried the Bulls to playoff victory the way Michael Jordan used to: 36 points two nights after he scored 39, 12 of 13 free throws two nights after making 19 of 21, eight rebounds, six assists.

Half-hearted conditional qualifier (a pretty good sign someone is going to say something ridiculous:

Quote
OK, I'm about wander into territory I swore for the past 13 years I wouldn't wander into, because whenever a sportswriter has dared to compare a guy -- even Kobe Bryant -- to Jordan, my head explodes, because it's completely irresponsible … but here goes anyway.

The ridiculous thing that's being said:

Quote
This is so much like early Jordan it's scary. You couldn't have followed the '90s Bulls and not remember the nearly identical questions about the Bulls being too dependent on Jordan's scoring, about whether the team was really a contender if he had to average 40 in the first round against Cleveland, about whether any of his teammates were going to take the pressure off of him in the fourth quarter. We wondered and wondered until it was clear that Jordan was virtually infallible on the basketball court, particularly in pressure situations.

In that way and to this point, only, Rose reminds me absolutely of Jordan.

The Half-hearted attempt to distance himself from that statement:

Quote
Yes, Rose has a long, long, long way to go before he compares favorably with the 1990 Jordan, who was by then the best player in the league and on the cusp of winning a championship. Rose is only halfway to winning his first playoff series, and trust me, the games in Indianapolis are going to be a war, because the Pacers are certain they can still win this series.

There are lots, and I repeat LOTS of people who have done what Derrick Rose is doing up until this point in his career. Tracy McGrady rings a bell. This statement is utterly and completely hyperbolic and ridiculous, because frankly, you don't compare someone to Michael Jordan because they're doing things other people have also done. You didn't say "That Deke Mutombo is a heck of a shot blocker, he's just like Bill Russell." You don't say "That guy sure is a heck of a hitter, just like Lou Gerhig", or "Wow, look..that infielder hasn't missed a game all season. Just like Cal Ripken."

You compare someone to Jordan in the frame of a career, because up until Jordan started winning championships, what he was doing wasn't in fact special in the context of league history. Ask Nique, or Mitch Richmond, or Paul Pierce prior to 2008. Lots of people have been able score at will in the regular season and first round of the playoffs (and against an 8 seed with suspect defense, no less).  

Michael Wilbon knows exactly the images and emotions he's eliciting by comparing someone to Jordan, and that's the reason why it took Kobe Bryant 5 championships just to get to the point where people don't spontaneously break out into violent bursts of rage when people compare him to Jordan. And, all he gets is "Yeah, I guess...kinda."

I don't know if its the same where you guys are (I imagine its not, because it seems like a distinctly canadian thing..maybe Minor league baseball would be a good comparison), but this reminds me of when I used to go watch my friend play in Junior A hockey games in Canada. A kid, usually around 15 or so would swing the stick and get a shot off, and someone would say, "Wow...kid's got a slapshot just like Gretzky."

And then someone would laugh.



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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Here We Go: First Rose/Jordan Article From Major Media (Mike Wilpon)
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2011, 05:41:33 PM »

Offline Garnett Crushes Gasoft

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Rose being compared to Jordan is just Laughable. Wilbon needs to get off the pipe