If Perkins was still here..we would still be the 3rd seed right?

[chambers]

Every one who thinks the trade was a mistake...
Do you think that if we hadn't traded Perkins, the other 4 core players would have gotten us the number 1 seed?
If Perkins was on this team would we be number 3 seed or number 1?
Does it change our record going into the playoffs?

Are you all putting waaaaayy too much importance on one slightly above average center who boxes out and sets good picks?
You're giving the big four an easy way out of this and it's not fair. They're the ones who are struggling and not playing up to their potential. We are 6 games behind the Bulls. The starters should have and could have kept us at least at the 2 seed.

I think it's possible that JO can fill Perkins void quite well after seeing him the past few weeks.
If our new guys play the same throughout the playoffs as they have been, and our big four play like they did last year in the playoffs...aren't we are a better team ?

I posted this as a reply to another topic but I thought it was a good discussion point before the playoffs.

[Drucci]

I love Perk but I'm honestly getting tired of every topic getting somewhat related to Perkins and "the trade". Time to move on and gear up for the playoffs in my opinion, enough with the "what if" and "coulda shoulda", we will have plenty of time to debate around these topics in the offseason (hopefully only starting in late June).

[scoop1977]

Do you think that if we hadn't traded Perkins, the other 4 core players would have gotten us the number 1 seed?
If Perkins was on this team would we be number 3 seed or number 1?
Does it change our record going into the playoffs?

I'm fairly sure Boston would get seed #2.

Perkins is a huge improvement over the guys who played the most minutes. The Celtics lost lots of close games due to lack of rebounding and defense. The offense would have operated smoother too. Maybe they could get 1 or 2 games behind till his return, but they'd make up for it and then some. He's playing very well lately.

Are you all putting waaaaayy too much importance on one slightly above average center who boxes out and sets good picks?

Above average centers aren't exactly easy to come by and can be extremely valuable.

Plus, it looks like you're describing Ryan Bowen or something. Boxes out and sets picks? That's true, but there's more. 

Perkins is an elite defender and was the Celtics' best shot-blocker and rebounder. Also an incredibly efficient scorer, which considering the Celtics team, makes him an excellent fit. I think most people simply don't get this, btw... they believe that if Jermaine, Baby or Krstic are more skilled players and better offensively, than if you replace Perkins with them the Celtics offense should improve. Of course it ain't so, basketball is more complicated than that. See how Miami has been under-performing offensively or how Isiah Thomas kept adding offensive talent to the Knicks and they'd get worse and worse every time.

[Who]

I'm fairly sure Boston would get seed #2.

Agreed

[billysan]

While I sympathize with all who miss Perk, because I do as well, this is still more about a miscalculation by Danny Ainge. He was/is convinced that our 'big four' and Shaq/JO where formidable enough as a playoff group if we had bench depth behind them to go with BBD/Delonte.

He added Jeff and Nenad as rotation players along with the FA crowd only to find that his roster moves werent supported with a continued high level of play from his core players. The expected success of Danny's roster moves just hasnt materialized. Even as a bonafide Perk lover, I cannot sit here and honestly say that I knew none of this would have have worked any better than it has to date.

Second guessing is counterproductive for me and I think looking forward our chances are still excellent to make it to the NBA Finals with our current group. The deeper we make it into the playoffs, the more Danny's moves will be evaluated. If we are eliminated early it will be because our team didnt perform, not because Perk isnt wearing Celtic Green.

[zerophase]

I think we would have beaten Miami and gotten the 2nd seed. Though I like the matchup with the Knicks better than with Phili.

[dwlefty13]

If Perk was here, quite honestly it wouldn't matter what seed the Celtics were because they would be feared by their competition and have that mental edge over the Bulls and Heat (who seem to be relieved Perk isn't a Celtic any longer)

[JBcat]

Well if the question is would we still have the 3 seed you have to consider the injuries and everything that took place if no trade was made.  Let's say we did make a minor trade Semih and Luke for Anthony Parker and still picked Murphy, Arroyo, and Sasha.

Perkins was out from 2/25 and until 3/14 which would have been 9 games for us.  Since then he has played his customary 25 MPG with 3 games above 30 minutes. 

From 2/26 to 3/6 we won 5 games in a row when Krstic was playing over his head and Green had a couple really solid games.  For the first 3 games of that stretch our big man rotation consisted of Krstic, Baby, and KG and we were able to get away with it. 

Baby was out from 3/4 until 3/11 for a total of 4 games when we went 2 and 2.  The big man rotation consisted of Krstic, KG, a sprinkle of Murphy and Chris Johnson. Oh yeah we had Green playing some PF which most of us hate him playing there.

We went 6 and 3 for the stretch of games Perk would have missed.  No trade our big man rotation would have consisted of KG, Baby, a little Murphy, a little Johnson, and some Green for 5 of the games.  For the other 4 take Baby out of that mix.  I think KG could have been run into the ground during that 9 game stretch and could have almost completely demoralized our team.  We might have gone 2 and 7 during that stretch especially when you factor in Rondo's subpar play and factor in the downgrade from Green to Parker and Sasha getting minutes (Wafer was hurt most of that stretch).

So say even if we were to make up a few games when Perk came back after 3/14 I don't think it's a given we would be able to hold the 2 seed let alone the 3 seed. 

[MBz]

I'm fairly sure Boston would get seed #2.

Agreed

I disagree.  Our problem was scoring, Perkins wasn't going to help us increase our scoring by 10+ pts a game.

[celtics2]

Maybe worse. He'd  be playing 40 min per game and wind up with his shoulder in a sling and his knee in another brace. When he came back to us we had a below 500 record I believe for the games he played. It was an excellent trade but Sha

[celtics2]

Maybe worse. He'd  be playing 40 min per game and wind up with his shoulder in a sling and his knee in another brace. When he came back to us we had a below 500 record I believe for the games he played. It was an excellent trade but the two O's a fiasco.

[slamtheking]

we may have had the #2 seed.  the difference is that if we have the #3 with Perk, I'd feel a lot more confident simply because we'd have the same starting line-up that 'flipped the switch' last year so there'd be less uncertainty over whether this team could turn up the pressure in the playoffs.

Looking at what OKC has done with Perk in the line-up, I don't see how all the angst over Shaq doesn't evaporate with Perk back in the middle.  With Perk, Shaq would have been a true luxury and having JO off the bench would have been a major asset.

[LarBrd33]

it's tough, because a lot also had to do with Marquis Daniels getting hurt.  At some point we needed to bring in a new backup for Pierce whether through trade or by picking up a scrub free agent. 

Losing the top seed had more to do with trying to get 5 new guys caught up with the system and the disconnect that followed.  We had to basically go through a new training camp and force-feed minutes to guys who didn't yet understand our system.  The presence of the new guys also threw off our starters who needed to adapt. 

If no trade happens, we probably just dump a bunch more on Glen Davis while waiting for Perk to return (he was injured) and get Daniel's replacement up to speed.  Maybe drop to 2nd, but not 3rd.

None of this would be a big deal if Shaq were healthy... but he can't even walk.  So we're doomed. 

[GreenFaith1819]

In the words of Charles Barkley - well, we all know that funny commercial by now.

If we still had Perk, then we'd still have no Marquis, which means no backup for Paul (CLE wanted a 1st round pick for Anthony Parker - somone correct me if I'm wrong?)

Coincidentally, the way Paul Pierce has played this season - The Captain has been the most consistent Celtic, IMO...he's been attacking the basket...rebounding better - especially with Perk traded....

...I wonder if he could've kept that up with someone other than Jeff Green backing him up?

KG is the emotional leader...Rajon is the motor...but Paul Pierce is The Captain - and a major part of my confidence in Boston claiming Banner 18 this June is because of him.

What other SF's out there could we have realistically picked up for Pierce that would've been a good acquisition?

So - to answer the thread - we'd probably be 4th seed or worse. In keeping Perk and picking up someone else to backup Paul would've probably resulted in Captain playing more minutes, and even though he'd do it for the team, what use what Paul be come playoff time?

And - didn't we stumble to 3rd seed last year - with Perk? We finished 27-27....this year at least we finished 15-12.