Dan Shaughnessy article on the "trade"

[rtifishul]

This team was as good or better than any team we've had since the big three got here, all without Perkins. If Shaq comes back and gives us 15-20 minutes a night, the whole mojo of the team will change, almost instantaneously. You will see the return of swag in Boston and we'll have as good a shot as anyone to hang #18.

But for me, the reason why this trade was successsful and a good one, is what it does for us moving forward.

Rondo and Green are a very nice young duo. Green is not an all star and I'm not sure he ever will be. However, as your 3rd or 4th option and as a multi-talented utility guy, he's perfect.

You add in another max free agent at the right spot, the Clipper's pick, our picks, a mid level guy - not to mention other young complimentary pieces you might be able to add by trading the contracts of KG, Ray Allen and Big baby next year? You could be rebuilt within 1-2 years and Rondo is 26...

Look at the competition moving forward guys - OKC, Denver Miami, Chicago, NY - it's athleticism and speed. With this trade Ainge started building the high octane team he envisions around Rondo that will compete with the new kids on the block. And we think it was a bad move?

Another question - how well will Perkins fit into a run and gun team? He's already got 8 years on some bad wheels and he's not a run-jump athlete to boot. You think he's going to hold up another 10 years?

You can bring in a Dalembert or someone similar at center and spend your money on talent in the other positions.

It's a gamble, but if Shaq can give us 15-20 a night, Jermaine stays healthy - I think we're hanging #18 this year.

Do we really think the window for KG and Ray goes beyond next year anyway??? At some point you have to get on with it, as much as I love this current team, we have to get on with it - the rebuilding that is.

Ainge balanced it perfectly - we still have "just as good a shot to win it this year - and we got a key piece next to Rondo moving forward.

What the players need to do is grab their sack, show their teeth, be willing to get bloody...and go get #18. They need to stop with the pouting, or the apathetic BS, and go get dirty. This team can certainly win it.

Lastly - are giving any thought to the possiblity that now having played nearly 20 games together -some of the problems of assimilating may receed gradually and these guys could slowly become cohesive as they move through the playoffs?

Keep the faith. Now is the time to get dirty - and this group is a dirty bunch. They won't be that easy to knock out - they all have hearts of champions, even their apathetic BS of late won't prevent those hearts from shining when the chips are truly down when the ball goes up for the playoffs.   

   

The impending playoffs have elicited serious fandom. TP and a half.

[moiso]

Shaughnessy is overreacting. Perk didn't lead the Celtics to a 41-14 start. He barely played, and at that was only playing OK.

Even if the trade didn't happen I would fully expect the 'coasting / switch is off' finish to this season. The old legs are tired, the effort isn't fully there, and Rondo in particular isn't bringing it like he was. All that can't be blamed on Perkins or Green.

I look forward to seeing the C's prove a lot of people wrong as they make another big run. Go Celtics!!

We were 41-14, but they weren't playoff games.  There were some intense games, but Perk is more necessary in the playoff wars.

[garz]

What's the difference between losing games and losing mojo?

[Ersatz]

Winning the title was not guaranteed this year.
The Marquis injury was even a bigger factor than Perkins contract, it forced Ainges hand.  

I think there are lots of reasons the trade was a good one, but Daniels' injury made it a necessary trade.

And I think if we are going to criticize Ainge, we should be criticizing him for not giving Tony Allen that third year. If TA is on the team, we have a legitimate backup for Pierce and Ray who can play 30 minutes of great defense and better-than-average offense. Allen is right now the best value in the league, and he could have been ours if Ainge hadn't been stubborn.

[ScoobyDoo]

Good and logical follow up question Roy. My short answers are:

1. Championships are elusive - nothing guarantees you one - no matter what you do.

2. More specifically - I think you still have to make the trade because even if we miss the finals this year because we let Perk go and even if Green and the Clipper's pick never produce a championship - while having kept Perk may have won us a ring this year - there is also no guarantee he would be here next year, or if he was, that "that" would guarantee us any future rings either...

3. Perkins is 26 and already 8 hard years on some suspect knees. He may well last another ten but I wouldn't count on it.

4. I see the next generation Celtics team as high octane and I'd rather put a center next to Rondo who can really get up and down the court and who has a good shot at playing along side Rondo for 8-10 years.

5. It's a long shot - but can you imagine if Ainge unloads KG, Ray and Big baby next year, then lands Dwight Howard in free agency?

Howard / Green / Rondo? Add water and mix = rings or contention for rings.

Or - you could bring in a Dalembert level guy at center and load up at other spots with talent and be in contention again quickly.

6. So yes, I do consider the trade a success because we theoretically still have just as good a shot at #18 if Shaq and JO can play roughly 15-20 minutes a night and we added a great young chip for NexGen with Green, plus we have a clipper's first round pick as well

I believe Green can excel in a starter's role and I'm not that confident in Perkins' long term health prospects.

7. I also agree with:
* Green Dye that we will go as far as the big four will take us.   
* Thanks for the TP & 1/2 rtifishul, 
     

[vinnie]

What are the chances that Green gets an offer that the Celtics do not want to match. According to what I heard on the radio today from Mannix, Green wanted more than what OKC signed Perk for.

[vinnie]

I love it when a writer who everyone considers to be an ignorant idiot, suddenly comes with a column that backs your stance on something and suddenly he starts being seen as an authoritative figure on the subject.

You mean like last year when this same writer said he believed in the Celtics and thought they had a good shot at winning it all?

[LB3533]

I think if Green is a #2 or #3 he is worth 10-12 million per.

Is that what we want him for his role?

If he is a bench guy, he shouldn't be signed to that large of a deal.

[Chris]

What are the chances that Green gets an offer that the Celtics do not want to match. According to what I heard on the radio today from Mannix, Green wanted more than what OKC signed Perk for.

Well, what he wanted midseason, when we can't actually be extended is very different from what the actual market is for him.

But I do think there is a very good chance he is gone this summer.  I don't think the C's are that much more interested in paying him front line money as they were in paying Perk that.  

The difference is, as far as future value goes, they also got the pick (which is looking better and better as more lottery guys pull out of this years draft), plus, they hold RFA rights on Green this summer, which gives them much more leverage when it comes to negotiating a sign and trade.  

With Perk, they would have had very little leverage on the sign and trade, because there were teams under the cap willing to throw cash at him.  But with Green, they can always threaten to match a deal, and force another team to give up some value if they want to sign him.

Obviously, the way this team plays in the playoffs this year will be the biggest key to the trade, but when it comes to how it sets them up in the future, I don't think there is any doubt that it puts them in a significantly better position, whether they want to keep Green or not.

...well, assuming they were not willing to pay Perkins market value that is.

[Who]

What are the chances that Green gets an offer that the Celtics do not want to match. According to what I heard on the radio today from Mannix, Green wanted more than what OKC signed Perk for.

I have no idea what Danny Ainge is willing to pay for him.

Jeff Green was asking for $50 million over five years last summer + is likely to receive an offer somewhere in the neighbourhood of $40 million over five years (medium range offer) as a free agent this summer. So that is the ball park and Danny Ainge knew all of that when he acquired him.

The MLE last year was $32/33 million over five years. Jeff Green will be given more than the MLE. Nobody will believe Boston will let Green go for an MLE deal + he has enough admirers around the league to command more. Also, there are quite a few teams shaping up to be under the cap this summer and not much talent on the market. The pickings get slimmer again when we talk about young talented players. So add in Jeff Green's age and perceived upside/potential ... there is simply no way Green doesn't get an above MLE offer.

Green will be offered a minimum of $35-38 million. And more likely in the $38-43 million range.

It's just a question of how much Danny believes in him and frankly I haven't got a clue. But that is the type of money we're talking about.

[kozlodoev]

The Celtics are 14-12 since the deal and have lost 11 of their last 20

Applying some third grade algebra demonstrates that we were 5-1 in the 6 games immediately following the trade.

I wonder why the alleged "trade effect" would take ~2 weeks to kick in. But then again, it's too much to expect reason from any garden variety sports writer.

[blackberry33]

What are the chances that Green gets an offer that the Celtics do not want to match. According to what I heard on the radio today from Mannix, Green wanted more than what OKC signed Perk for.

I have no idea what Danny Ainge is willing to pay for him.

Jeff Green was asking for $50 million over five years last summer + is likely to receive an offer somewhere in the neighbourhood of $40 million over five years (medium range offer) as a free agent this summer. So that is the ball park and Danny Ainge knew all of that when he acquired him.

The MLE last year was $32/33 million over five years. Jeff Green will be given more than the MLE. Nobody will believe Boston will let Green go for an MLE deal + he has enough admirers around the league to command more. Also, there are quite a few teams shaping up to be under the cap this summer and not much talent on the market. The pickings get slimmer again when we talk about young talented players. So add in Jeff Green's age and perceived upside/potential ... there is simply no way Green doesn't get an above MLE offer.

Green will be offered a minimum of $35-38 million. And more likely in the $38-43 million range.

It's just a question of how much Danny believes in him and frankly I haven't got a clue. But that is the type of money we're talking about.

5yr 40M I would be happy with. DA got him for the future with Rondo and Pierce........

[wdleehi]

The Celtics are 14-12 since the deal and have lost 11 of their last 20

Applying some third grade algebra demonstrates that we were 5-1 in the 6 games immediately following the trade.

I wonder why the alleged "trade effect" would take ~2 weeks to kick in. But then again, it's too much to expect reason from any garden variety sports writer.

So, if this team was to play the whole season, 44 and 38 is OK as long as it started 16 - 3? 


I wonder why the first 6 games mean more then the entire 26 games?

[footey]

This part was interesting:

“It’s good that the focus is on me,’’ said Ainge. “I just hope the players don’t use that as a crutch. When we made the deal, we were all on board.’’

Danny is basically saying, "Don't blame me for any chemistry issues, because you wanted it, too."  I wonder how much that is true.

Danny sounds very defensive in that article.  Obviously, he wouldn't admit a mistake even if he thought he made one, but I can't remember a time when he seemed so on edge answering questions.

He seemed to throw all the key starters (including Rondo) with that quote, as having approved the deal.

[bbd24]

This team was as good or better than any team we've had since the big three got here, all without Perkins. If Shaq comes back and gives us 15-20 minutes a night, the whole mojo of the team will change, almost instantaneously. You will see the return of swag in Boston and we'll have as good a shot as anyone to hang #18.

But for me, the reason why this trade was successsful and a good one, is what it does for us moving forward.

Rondo and Green are a very nice young duo. Green is not an all star and I'm not sure he ever will be. However, as your 3rd or 4th option and as a multi-talented utility guy, he's perfect.

You add in another max free agent at the right spot, the Clipper's pick, our picks, a mid level guy - not to mention other young complimentary pieces you might be able to add by trading the contracts of KG, Ray Allen and Big baby next year? You could be rebuilt within 1-2 years and Rondo is 26...

Look at the competition moving forward guys - OKC, Denver Miami, Chicago, NY - it's athleticism and speed. With this trade Ainge started building the high octane team he envisions around Rondo that will compete with the new kids on the block. And we think it was a bad move?

Another question - how well will Perkins fit into a run and gun team? He's already got 8 years on some bad wheels and he's not a run-jump athlete to boot. You think he's going to hold up another 10 years?

You can bring in a Dalembert or someone similar at center and spend your money on talent in the other positions.

It's a gamble, but if Shaq can give us 15-20 a night, Jermaine stays healthy - I think we're hanging #18 this year.

Do we really think the window for KG and Ray goes beyond next year anyway??? At some point you have to get on with it, as much as I love this current team, we have to get on with it - the rebuilding that is.

Ainge balanced it perfectly - we still have "just as good a shot to win it this year - and we got a key piece next to Rondo moving forward.

What the players need to do is grab their sack, show their teeth, be willing to get bloody...and go get #18. They need to stop with the pouting, or the apathetic BS, and go get dirty. This team can certainly win it.

Lastly - are giving any thought to the possiblity that now having played nearly 20 games together -some of the problems of assimilating may receed gradually and these guys could slowly become cohesive as they move through the playoffs?

Keep the faith. Now is the time to get dirty - and this group is a dirty bunch. They won't be that easy to knock out - they all have hearts of champions, even their apathetic BS of late won't prevent those hearts from shining when the chips are truly down when the ball goes up for the playoffs.   

   

In hypothetical terms, let's say we just miss a title this year, and it could be proven that it's the trade that made the difference.  Let's also say that Jeff Green and the Clippers pick both flourish in Boston, but never win a title here.

Under those circumstances, would you consider the trade a success?

I don't know if 'success' is the right term given with that situation, but I would consider it still the 'right' move.   We have no business paying a player of Perks caliber 9 Million per.  Not with the core 4 around him.  3-5 M, sure.  9 ? hells bells no.  You don't pay players who give you 5 fouls, 5 pts, Rebounding, and good defense 9 M per.  You unload those types of players and get something for him now, instead of waiting for him to walk on you next year.   He's not worth the open market money.  Not with the roster stacked as is.

Your anchor is KG on defense, and thats why your still allowing only 91 pts per game , best in the league, all without King Perk.  You've proven you can add guys like Shaq and Jermaine O'neal to the core 4 and not miss a beat. Heck, you might be even better with any of those two playing with the core 4. Why pay Perkins when you don't have to ?  Get something for him now, which you did and then some.  Green's a starter and only 24, Krstic is a solid backup center, and the 1st round clipper pick is a great future piece.

Definitely the right move.