Tanking

[Rondo2287]

Tanking worked out well for us in '97 & '07

Well in 07 it got us the 5th pick which landed us ray allen which started a dominoe effect to get us banner 17.

Were we tanking to get the 5th pick in the draft? 

No but you said how did tanking work for us and I told you.  I think we would have traded anything other than the 1st two picks for Ray, but thats just my opinion.  I just think its strange that you don't think it worked in 07 when so much was made of our worst to first season.

Chris mentioned it in his post above.  The "tanking" itself failed.  The point all along was to get one of the top two picks in the '07 draft.  Tanking didn't accomplish that. We got "stuck" with the 5th pick and were able to spin it for Ray which set off a chain of events that ultimately led to Banner 17.  I'm not gonna necessarily say moving the 5th pick for Ray was a "panic move" but it was pretty much a last ditch effort to get something going.

I guess I just flat out disagree.  Ignoring the fact that we traded the asset that was  direct result of our "tanking" to say that it didnt work is just strange.  The way the rules are set up, the worst pick we could have had was the 5th pick, Danny knew that going in and had plans accordinginly. 

The quesion is, if we had won more games that season, and wound up with the 14th pick in the draft where would we be?  I probably wouldnt be on this blog since I didn't find it until I was looking for KG trade rumors.

[KungPoweChicken]

First option is to use those draft picks and Green to sign and trade to get someone to go with Rondo.



Second option is to trade Pierce to a contender on it's last leg (Dallas anyone) to try and get future picks. 


Third option, trade Rondo to completely rebuild. 



With option one, the Celtics could bring back KG and Ray at min type deals to go with the new star as a way to win now.  Option 2 and 3, less likely. 

Your first option should be reversed: Trade Rondo to pair someone with Green.

I never want to trade Pierce.

[Chris]

Tanking worked out well for us in '97 & '07

Well in 07 it got us the 5th pick which landed us ray allen which started a dominoe effect to get us banner 17.

Were we tanking to get the 5th pick in the draft? 

No but you said how did tanking work for us and I told you.  I think we would have traded anything other than the 1st two picks for Ray, but thats just my opinion.  I just think its strange that you don't think it worked in 07 when so much was made of our worst to first season.

Chris mentioned it in his post above.  The "tanking" itself failed.  The point all along was to get one of the top two picks in the '07 draft.  Tanking didn't accomplish that. We got "stuck" with the 5th pick and were able to spin it for Ray which set off a chain of events that ultimately led to Banner 17.  I'm not gonna necessarily say moving the 5th pick for Ray was a "panic move" but it was pretty much a last ditch effort to get something going.

I guess I just flat out disagree.  Ignoring the fact that we traded the asset that was  direct result of our "tanking" to say that it didnt work is just strange.  The way the rules are set up, the worst pick we could have had was the 5th pick, Danny knew that going in and had plans accordinginly. 

The quesion is, if we had won more games that season, and wound up with the 14th pick in the draft where would we be?  I probably wouldnt be on this blog since I didn't find it until I was looking for KG trade rumors.

Actually, Danny's plan was to trade that pick, along with Jefferson and change for Garnett, until Garnett shot it down.  So, to suggest he had planned on trading for Ray all along is simply not accurate.  

But anyways, they did not start "tanking" that season until after Pierce and Tony Allen both went down with long term injuries.  Before that, they were looking like a playoff team.

To even consider tanking at this point is downright crazy IMO.  We have no idea whether there will even be a season next year, let alone what the landscape would be.  We don't know what will be out there, and we don't even know if there will be dramatic changes to the draft.

What happens if part of the new CBA is that they raise the entry age another year?  Should they still tank?

This is just WAY premature.

[wdleehi]

First option is to use those draft picks and Green to sign and trade to get someone to go with Rondo.



Second option is to trade Pierce to a contender on it's last leg (Dallas anyone) to try and get future picks. 


Third option, trade Rondo to completely rebuild. 



With option one, the Celtics could bring back KG and Ray at min type deals to go with the new star as a way to win now.  Option 2 and 3, less likely. 

Your first option should be reversed: Trade Rondo to pair someone with Green.

I never want to trade Pierce.

Nobody comes to Boston to play with Green.



Players will come to Boston to be set up by a PG like Rondo.  Slump and all. 

[Rondo2287]

Tanking worked out well for us in '97 & '07

Well in 07 it got us the 5th pick which landed us ray allen which started a dominoe effect to get us banner 17.

Were we tanking to get the 5th pick in the draft? 

No but you said how did tanking work for us and I told you.  I think we would have traded anything other than the 1st two picks for Ray, but thats just my opinion.  I just think its strange that you don't think it worked in 07 when so much was made of our worst to first season.

Chris mentioned it in his post above.  The "tanking" itself failed.  The point all along was to get one of the top two picks in the '07 draft.  Tanking didn't accomplish that. We got "stuck" with the 5th pick and were able to spin it for Ray which set off a chain of events that ultimately led to Banner 17.  I'm not gonna necessarily say moving the 5th pick for Ray was a "panic move" but it was pretty much a last ditch effort to get something going.

I guess I just flat out disagree.  Ignoring the fact that we traded the asset that was  direct result of our "tanking" to say that it didnt work is just strange.  The way the rules are set up, the worst pick we could have had was the 5th pick, Danny knew that going in and had plans accordinginly. 

The quesion is, if we had won more games that season, and wound up with the 14th pick in the draft where would we be?  I probably wouldnt be on this blog since I didn't find it until I was looking for KG trade rumors.

Actually, Danny's plan was to trade that pick, along with Jefferson and change for Garnett, until Garnett shot it down.  So, to suggest he had planned on trading for Ray all along is simply not accurate.  

But anyways, they did not start "tanking" that season until after Pierce and Tony Allen both went down with long term injuries.  Before that, they were looking like a playoff team.

Sorry I got ahead of myself suggesting that he planned on trading the 5th for Ray, my point was that i think if it werent one of the top two picks Danny was going to try to trade it.  However of my arguments I think you picked out the most insignificant part, rather than addressing my main argument which was losing games resulted in a draft pick that was traded for ray to entice KG to accept a trade here.  If it werent for the tanking and the high draft pick we wouldnt have won title 17

[ballin]

I, for one, agree with the OP's sentiment.

I forget which coach said it, but he said something like "You win a championship in this league when you have a top 50 all-time player, and 2 all-stars".

Obviously, getting the ultra-elite top 50 player is the biggest problem, but it also makes the biggest difference. Think of it this way; out of the last 12 championships won, I'm pretty sure 10/12 involved either Shaq, Duncan, or Kobe. Obviously KG was our top 50 all-time player. The Pistons were a freakish exception.

Frankly, Rondo is NOT that player and we need to do everything we can to get that player. The most likely way? Tanking and getting the #1 or #2 pick. Or trading Rondo along with some other talent we acquire in the draft for an elite player, like we did for Garnett. Teams that try to claw their way to the top end up in Pacers, Sixers, and Bobcats, Grizzlies, the list goes on, territory. Good enough to barely make the playoffs and never better. Maybe you look legit for a year or two, but then you come up short.

You also need a great, highly-respected player to attract other free agents. Again, I question whether other players respect Rondo like that. Ray and KG felt that way for Pierce. Does anybody think of Rondo like that? I doubt it.

Just look at how the elite teams have been formed:

Lakers - Drafted Kobe, Shaq through FA
Bulls - Drafted Rose, Boozer through FA
Heat - Drafted Wade, Bosh and Lebron through FA
Thunder - Drafted KD and Westbrook
Spurs - Drafted Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili
Mavs - Drafted Dirk

Lastly, Celtics drafted Pierce, and got Ray and KG through FA.

Rondo is just not on the same level as Kobe, Rose, Wade, KD, Duncan, Dirk, or even Pierce. Even in Pierce's old age it's questionable that Rondo is the better player.

And on the come-up, I look around the league and I can see Blake Griffin being that player in the near future. Guys will go to play with him, and all he needs is one or two legit FA's and he's there.

We need a guy like Blake, not like Rondo

[BballTim]

  If the plan is to get a top 2 draft pick, how often are top 50 players available in the draft? How often are two? Winning the lottery assures you nothing.

[Chris]

Tanking worked out well for us in '97 & '07

Well in 07 it got us the 5th pick which landed us ray allen which started a dominoe effect to get us banner 17.

Were we tanking to get the 5th pick in the draft?  

No but you said how did tanking work for us and I told you.  I think we would have traded anything other than the 1st two picks for Ray, but thats just my opinion.  I just think its strange that you don't think it worked in 07 when so much was made of our worst to first season.

Chris mentioned it in his post above.  The "tanking" itself failed.  The point all along was to get one of the top two picks in the '07 draft.  Tanking didn't accomplish that. We got "stuck" with the 5th pick and were able to spin it for Ray which set off a chain of events that ultimately led to Banner 17.  I'm not gonna necessarily say moving the 5th pick for Ray was a "panic move" but it was pretty much a last ditch effort to get something going.

I guess I just flat out disagree.  Ignoring the fact that we traded the asset that was  direct result of our "tanking" to say that it didnt work is just strange.  The way the rules are set up, the worst pick we could have had was the 5th pick, Danny knew that going in and had plans accordinginly.  

The quesion is, if we had won more games that season, and wound up with the 14th pick in the draft where would we be?  I probably wouldnt be on this blog since I didn't find it until I was looking for KG trade rumors.

Actually, Danny's plan was to trade that pick, along with Jefferson and change for Garnett, until Garnett shot it down.  So, to suggest he had planned on trading for Ray all along is simply not accurate.  

But anyways, they did not start "tanking" that season until after Pierce and Tony Allen both went down with long term injuries.  Before that, they were looking like a playoff team.

Sorry I got ahead of myself suggesting that he planned on trading the 5th for Ray, my point was that i think if it werent one of the top two picks Danny was going to try to trade it.  However of my arguments I think you picked out the most insignificant part, rather than addressing my main argument which was losing games resulted in a draft pick that was traded for ray to entice KG to accept a trade here.  If it werent for the tanking and the high draft pick we wouldnt have won title 17

No, I addressed that when I said that I think it is way too premature to talk about that now.  

Like I said, they did not start tanking that year until the season was a lost cause due to injuries.  Before that point, they were trying hard to get to the playoffs.  And I think anything short of that next year is a good way to lose all of your season ticket holders with still minimal chances of it actually paying off in a good way.

Next year they have another shot at a title.  To give that up, in order to tank for the lottery from the outset is downright absurd IMO.  

Now, if KG and Rondo go down with season ending injuries early in the season, then by all means, blow it up.  Or, if they get an offer for a sweetheart deal in the offseason, then fine, blow it up.  

But don't deal away a championship contending team before they even step on the floor, just on the outside chance you could win the lottery the following year.

That 2007 team was going nowhere.  So, it made sense to tank.  That is VERY different from next years team at this point in time.  

Besides, if this team tanks next season for the lottery, I think any hopes of luring a guy like Dwight Howard in the summer of 2012 will dwindle to 0.  No one is going to want to come to a 20 win team. 

[jdub1660]

1. The word "tanking" should be put in the swear filter.  I really can't believe anyone would be promoting this after 2007 (I know we ended up with Ray, but that was only because the tanking failed...if it succeeded, we may be arguing about whether to extend a QO to Oden right now).

2. The more relevant question is whether we should blow it up.  And I think before even considering that, we need to see how the playoffs turn out, and more importantly what happens with the CBA.  Currently, it is impossible to know the market for anything until the CBA is agreed upon.  Then, we can start weighing pros and cons.

3. Did I mention the playoffs haven't even started yet?

Not that you need anymore, but TP haha

If we win a ring, I still think the team will be refaced depending on the play of Jeff Green. He could end up being just a trade piece along with the over protected pick to get either a veteran on a team in rebuild mode or a team desperate not to lose a star