Bill Simmons on the Celtics, Thunder

[Prof. Clutch]

lol TP.

Panic button is being pushed way too early. You rule out the Celtics at your own risk.

And a TP to you as well.

[aporel#18]

simmons proves again to never have any faith in the team no matter what is going on and also continues to give the team NO credit for what it a accomplished...

Very true. He gives up way too easy. Case in point.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/part2/100416&sportCat=nba

TP. Simmons is just building hype like the rest of ESPN.

The Celtics are a better team now than last year, I mean right now, without Shaq. And they'll be an even better team when the playoffs start, and they'll be hugely better when they get out of the East to face the Fakers (or SA or Dallas).

Da Bulls embarrassed the Celtics last thursday? I don't think so. They played like the Chicago Bears, and the Celtics just took all the beating and shoving. It's remarkable that the Celtics didn't show frustration, they didn't argued the obviously BS calls. And Doc kept messing with the rotation, as usual. Not caring a lot, IMO.

The Celtics are Ali, and da Bulls are George Foreman in the "Rumble in the Jungle" fighting. Let them bump their chests (that moron called Rose said he was confident they can beat the Celtics since the trade), the way to the ECF is a 12 round fight, every win is like surviving a round, and they need 12 to reach the East Championship.

Ali, like the Celtics, had the true heart of a champion. Da Bulls, although they have Thibs who is a great coach, are not better than last year's Magic.

Never doubt the Celtics. Go Celtics!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfUHYUpmTFs

If Sheed was in green it would be even better, hehehe 

[Raising 18]

simmons proves again to never have any faith in the team no matter what is going on and also continues to give the team NO credit for what it a accomplished...

Very true. He gives up way too easy. Case in point.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/part2/100416&sportCat=nba

the best part about this column is that he was so certain they were done as a team.. and calls out "ubuntu" as nonsense but NOW that the trade was made "ubuntu" has been around for the past 4 years.. cant have it both ways Bill "the hack" Simmons

[tenn_smoothie]

as much as i sometimes despise Simmons barely hidden love affair with Kobe and the Lakers, he does have an amazing ability to articulate exactly what we have been watching as Celtics fans, but have been unable to put into words ........... unfortunately, i cannot disagree with his analysis of what has transpired since the trade deadline.

he summed up my pain and anger perfectly with this article ....

"In retrospect, Danny Ainge should have just flown the whole team to Dallas, crammed the players into a limo, had them do the turn around at Dealey Plaza and just started shooting at them from the Grassy Knoll. "

i just cannot sufficiently describe my anger at Danny Ainge right now - probably why i post on this blog so often recently about my frustration with something that has caused me so much pain, but which i have no control over.

it's been easy to forget Danny's schizophrenic management style that preceded the relative stability of the past four seasons. back then, Danny constantly changed his mind about what kind of team he was building and made frequent trades that reflected his latest ideas, even though those trades often directly conflicted with personnel decisions he had made just a few months before. since the arrival of Ray Ray and KG, it's like Ainge has had to constantly supress his natural urge to tinker with his team, so when he did finally make a move, he went all out and destroyed our team with both barrels.

[tenn_smoothie]

How many times must it be said, Kendrick Perkins played TWELVE games for the Celtics this season. We were really, really good without him. The X factor is going to be Shaq. If he's healthy, I like our chances.

like many Celtic fans, you just don't get it.

it's not about the games he did and didn't play in - when are you guys gonna understand that - how much more evidence do you need ?

[get_banners]

as much as i sometimes despise Simmons barely hidden love affair with Kobe and the Lakers, he does have an amazing ability to articulate exactly what we have been watching as Celtics fans, but have been unable to put into words ........... unfortunately, i cannot disagree with his analysis of what has transpired since the trade deadline.

he summed up my pain and anger perfectly with this article ....

"In retrospect, Danny Ainge should have just flown the whole team to Dallas, crammed the players into a limo, had them do the turn around at Dealey Plaza and just started shooting at them from the Grassy Knoll. "

i just cannot sufficiently describe my anger at Danny Ainge right now - probably why i post on this blog so often recently about my frustration with somethiong that has caused me as much pain as i can remember since we lost Lenny Bias.

it's been easy to forget Danny's schizophrenic management style that preceded the relative stability of the past four seasons. back then, Danny constantly changed his mind about what kind of team he was building and made frequent trades that reflected his latest ideas, even though those trades often directly conflicted with personnel decisions he had made just a few months before. since the arrival of Ray Ray and KG, it's like Ainge has had to constantly supress his natural urge to tinker with his team, so when he did finally make a move, he went all out and destroyed our team with both barrels.

you do realize all of danny's dealings were to get enough pieces to cash in for ray and KG, right? the stability of the past 4 years is due to danny's wheeling and dealing to try and get out of an absolutely horrid situation. i mean, honestly, we were so screwed talent-wise and financially when he took over. i don't think people remember how bad the situation was.

[get_banners]

How many times must it be said, Kendrick Perkins played TWELVE games for the Celtics this season. We were really, really good without him. The X factor is going to be Shaq. If he's healthy, I like our chances.

like many Celtic fans, you just don't get it.

it's not about the games he did and didn't play in - when are you guys gonna understand that - how much more evidence do you need ?

people clearly don't understand that it was perkins, not the HOF-bound big 3, that make this team tick. look, i get the anger at the trade and all (i'm fine with it, but i loved perk), but all the people that imply that perk was the glue of the team do realize what they're saying about paul, ray, and KG, right? because, you know, those guys are like so many other starters on high school teams who fall to pieces when their buddy who played the 5 moves to another town. 

[Roy H.]

as much as i sometimes despise Simmons barely hidden love affair with Kobe and the Lakers, he does have an amazing ability to articulate exactly what we have been watching as Celtics fans, but have been unable to put into words ........... unfortunately, i cannot disagree with his analysis of what has transpired since the trade deadline.

he summed up my pain and anger perfectly with this article ....

"In retrospect, Danny Ainge should have just flown the whole team to Dallas, crammed the players into a limo, had them do the turn around at Dealey Plaza and just started shooting at them from the Grassy Knoll. "

i just cannot sufficiently describe my anger at Danny Ainge right now - probably why i post on this blog so often recently about my frustration with somethiong that has caused me as much pain as i can remember since we lost Lenny Bias.

it's been easy to forget Danny's schizophrenic management style that preceded the relative stability of the past four seasons. back then, Danny constantly changed his mind about what kind of team he was building and made frequent trades that reflected his latest ideas, even though those trades often directly conflicted with personnel decisions he had made just a few months before. since the arrival of Ray Ray and KG, it's like Ainge has had to constantly supress his natural urge to tinker with his team, so when he did finally make a move, he went all out and destroyed our team with both barrels.

you do realize all of danny's dealings were to get enough pieces to cash in for ray and KG, right? the stability of the past 4 years is due to danny's wheeling and dealing to try and get out of an absolutely horrid situation. i mean, honestly, we were so screwed talent-wise and financially when he took over. i don't think people remember how bad the situation was.

It's off-topic, but I don't think the bolded part above is true.  I agree with T_S that a lot of Danny's early moves didn't have a lot of direction.  For instance, look at the first two Antoine deals.  In the first, he sent Antoine off for an injured player on a long-term contract plus other assorted "chips"; in the second, he gave up a "chip" for a three-month rental of Antoine.  First he wanted Ricky and gave Mark Blount a bad contract; then he decided he didn't want either Ricky or Blount, and traded them for an injured Wally and his bad contract. 

Danny was able to recover from these moves, and finally settled on the "all in" philosophy, but I refuse to believe that the Raef or Wally deals were made with an eye toward adding KG and Ray.  I mean, the cost of turning Raef into Theo Ratliff was Brandon Roy / Rudy Gay.  That's not exactly a genius move.  Yes, shedding Raef's contract was necessary to acquire KG and Danny gets credit for understanding that, but at the same time if he hadn't gambled and lost on Raef in the first place, he wouldn't have had to move an asset.

The summer of 2007 was a thing of beauty, and I think Danny has largely done as good of a job as he could have the past two off-seasons, as well.  However, he's also made missteps, even recently.  To me, those include the summer of 2008, as well as the Perk trade.

[Roy H.]

How many times must it be said, Kendrick Perkins played TWELVE games for the Celtics this season. We were really, really good without him. The X factor is going to be Shaq. If he's healthy, I like our chances.

like many Celtic fans, you just don't get it.

it's not about the games he did and didn't play in - when are you guys gonna understand that - how much more evidence do you need ?

people clearly don't understand that it was perkins, not the HOF-bound big 3, that make this team tick. look, i get the anger at the trade and all (i'm fine with it, but i loved perk), but all the people that imply that perk was the glue of the team do realize what they're saying about paul, ray, and KG, right? because, you know, those guys are like so many other starters on high school teams who fall to pieces when their buddy who played the 5 moves to another town. 

I understand your argument, but I think Perk *was* part of the glue of this team.  Doc has admitted as much on multiple occasions, including the quote the other day about how this team currently lacks an "identity".

[Dunn]

Lol, the stuff on Davis and Nenad both funny and sad. I already knew they were both weak, and I thought typical. Of course, you're reminded they're both Celtics and then it's not so funny. All he did was detail an incident, far cry on his opinion on Sheed.

Fans trying to make sense of the trade need to let go. This ain't about Perk, it's about the leftovers who make us miss Perk. These two players are being called out from all angles, writers and players. When are we gonna see Baby and Krstic for who they are?

[rtifishul]

ESPN is an annoying hype machine that has always been a chore to deal with.

A 22 year old Rose is not going to prevent this Celtics team from getting revenge on that Game 7 last year.

People aren't even going to know what hit them when Shaq returns.

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, at the end of the day, Bill Simmons, evidently, writes his articles in such a way to get people to read them. From what I've read of his material, it is an interesting mix of sensationalism, truths, half-truths, opinions, etc.

Bill Simmons gets the job done here. He made me read his article.

What I've learned from my fellow bloggers here is that Bill Simmons was once, in fact - a Celtics Fan. Here lately, though - he somewhat reminds me of a few of my Star Trek episodes - the ones where the different species were assimilated by the Borg.

Well, Bill Simmons, IMO - has been assimilated.

The truth to his article here is that yes - a lot of Celtics Fans were/are unhappy with the trade. His article does in fact do a good job of channeling what many of us feel.

What his article does NOT do - and for this reason I compare his situation to the Borg - is that he gives The Boston Celtics no hope in this. He evidently is calling Boston's season over just based off of that CHI game and believes Boston has too much to overcome with Perk leaving.

Unfortunately, that's his mistake.

I hated to see Perk go, but at the same time I'm embracing Nenad Krstic and Jeff Greene. While I sometimes question how Jeff is being used, I am optimistic that he (and Nenad) will come up big for us over the next couple of months.

As was discussed yesterday in another thread - DRose evidently questions Boston's toughness since Perk left. I think Bill Simmons is echoing those same concerns.

Well, toughness, to me, is a broad term. As much as I dislike Pau Gasol (because he wears purple and gold), he shed all labels of "softness" to me when he played admirably well vs the physical Dwight Howard in the 08-09 playoffs.

IF - in fact - Bill Simmons is right about Boston's identity being so dependent on Perk, then I would think that The Big Four would need to look in the mirror and remind themselves why they play the game - and why they wear this fabled uniform.

I am not in the Celtics locker room...have never met a Celtics player...but I really believe that my last paragraph is not the case. Our players don't need any reminders.

As for this CHI team? They are just another mountain for The Boston Celtics to climb - on the way to LA.

As gifted as Bill Simmons is for analyzing a fan base and this trade, what he lacks, as Roy pointed out - is hope.

Bill Simmons - The Games Must Be Played....that is the beautiful thing about the playoffs. So much can (and often does) happen.

Just ask Dikembe Mutumbo's Nuggets - when they upset Seattle back in the day.

Ask Baron Davis' Golden State Warriors - after they upset Dallas.

Ask Hakeem and Sampson - after they sent LA packing in 86.

Ask Bird about That Steal and Pass to DJ...

Ask Paul and 'Toine - as they had that magnificent run in 2002-03.

Ask our players about last year, too.

Some may say that The Trade is too much to overcome. Well, once again I say - let the games be played.

Yes - our chemistry, our "toughness" is being called into question right now.

But for me - the games must be played.

[Kane3387]

Well, at the end of the day, Bill Simmons, evidently, writes his articles in such a way to get people to read them. From what I've read of his material, it is an interesting mix of sensationalism, truths, half-truths, opinions, etc.

Bill Simmons gets the job done here. He made me read his article.

What I've learned from my fellow bloggers here is that Bill Simmons was once, in fact - a Celtics Fan. Here lately, though - he somewhat reminds me of a few of my Star Trek episodes - the ones where the different species were assimilated by the Borg.

Well, Bill Simmons, IMO - has been assimilated.

The truth to his article here is that yes - a lot of Celtics Fans were/are unhappy with the trade. His article does in fact do a good job of channeling what many of us feel.

What his article does NOT do - and for this reason I compare his situation to the Borg - is that he gives The Boston Celtics no hope in this. He evidently is calling Boston's season over just based off of that CHI game and believes Boston has too much to overcome with Perk leaving.

Unfortunately, that's his mistake.

I hated to see Perk go, but at the same time I'm embracing Nenad Krstic and Jeff Greene. While I sometimes question how Jeff is being used, I am optimistic that he (and Nenad) will come up big for us over the next couple of months.

As was discussed yesterday in another thread - DRose evidently questions Boston's toughness since Perk left. I think Bill Simmons is echoing those same concerns.

Well, toughness, to me, is a broad term. As much as I dislike Pau Gasol (because he wears purple and gold), he shed all labels of "softness" to me when he played admirably well vs the physical Dwight Howard in the 08-09 playoffs.

IF - in fact - Bill Simmons is right about Boston's identity being so dependent on Perk, then I would think that The Big Four would need to look in the mirror and remind themselves why they play the game - and why they wear this fabled uniform.

I am not in the Celtics locker room...have never met a Celtics player...but I really believe that my last paragraph is not the case. Our players don't need any reminders.

As for this CHI team? They are just another mountain for The Boston Celtics to climb - on the way to LA.

As gifted as Bill Simmons is for analyzing a fan base and this trade, what he lacks, as Roy pointed out - is hope.

Bill Simmons - The Games Must Be Played....that is the beautiful thing about the playoffs. So much can (and often does) happen.

Just ask Dikembe Mutumbo's Nuggets - when they upset Seattle back in the day.

Ask Baron Davis' Golden State Warriors - after they upset Dallas.

Ask Hakeem and Sampson - after they sent LA packing in 86.

Ask Bird about That Steal and Pass to DJ...

Ask Paul and 'Toine - as they had that magnificent run in 2002-03.

Ask our players about last year, too.

Some may say that The Trade is too much to overcome. Well, once again I say - let the games be played.

Yes - our chemistry, our "toughness" is being called into question right now.

But for me - the games must be played.

This is great. How do you give someone a TP? This man deserves one.

[get_banners]

as much as i sometimes despise Simmons barely hidden love affair with Kobe and the Lakers, he does have an amazing ability to articulate exactly what we have been watching as Celtics fans, but have been unable to put into words ........... unfortunately, i cannot disagree with his analysis of what has transpired since the trade deadline.

he summed up my pain and anger perfectly with this article ....

"In retrospect, Danny Ainge should have just flown the whole team to Dallas, crammed the players into a limo, had them do the turn around at Dealey Plaza and just started shooting at them from the Grassy Knoll. "

i just cannot sufficiently describe my anger at Danny Ainge right now - probably why i post on this blog so often recently about my frustration with somethiong that has caused me as much pain as i can remember since we lost Lenny Bias.

it's been easy to forget Danny's schizophrenic management style that preceded the relative stability of the past four seasons. back then, Danny constantly changed his mind about what kind of team he was building and made frequent trades that reflected his latest ideas, even though those trades often directly conflicted with personnel decisions he had made just a few months before. since the arrival of Ray Ray and KG, it's like Ainge has had to constantly supress his natural urge to tinker with his team, so when he did finally make a move, he went all out and destroyed our team with both barrels.

you do realize all of danny's dealings were to get enough pieces to cash in for ray and KG, right? the stability of the past 4 years is due to danny's wheeling and dealing to try and get out of an absolutely horrid situation. i mean, honestly, we were so screwed talent-wise and financially when he took over. i don't think people remember how bad the situation was.

It's off-topic, but I don't think the bolded part above is true.  I agree with T_S that a lot of Danny's early moves didn't have a lot of direction.  For instance, look at the first two Antoine deals.  In the first, he sent Antoine off for an injured player on a long-term contract plus other assorted "chips"; in the second, he gave up a "chip" for a three-month rental of Antoine.  First he wanted Ricky and gave Mark Blount a bad contract; then he decided he didn't want either Ricky or Blount, and traded them for an injured Wally and his bad contract. 

Danny was able to recover from these moves, and finally settled on the "all in" philosophy, but I refuse to believe that the Raef or Wally deals were made with an eye toward adding KG and Ray.  I mean, the cost of turning Raef into Theo Ratliff was Brandon Roy / Rudy Gay.  That's not exactly a genius move.  Yes, shedding Raef's contract was necessary to acquire KG and Danny gets credit for understanding that, but at the same time if he hadn't gambled and lost on Raef in the first place, he wouldn't have had to move an asset.

The summer of 2007 was a thing of beauty, and I think Danny has largely done as good of a job as he could have the past two off-seasons, as well.  However, he's also made missteps, even recently.  To me, those include the summer of 2008, as well as the Perk trade.

they didn't all work out...but given the horrible state of the team he took over, its pretty clear danny was doing everything possible to get a better talent fit and pick up pieces. i don't mean to say he did them with an eye to get KG and ray...he did them to get useful pieces that he could parlay into better players. again, not defending every move by any means, but if people take issue with danny's crazy trading habits early on, they should understand that a lot of those moves were made to pick up pieces to use later - and pieces at the time. remember, raef had a pretty good few years up to that point, while 'toine was declining and becoming a terrible fit for the team. same with wally (who was the best player in that trade at the time). i think he was cornered into getting 'toine back, personally, though it wasn't the worst move, since we got GP back and a humbled walker.

[Kuberski1]

Ah, Bill Simmons....wonderful writer, but often is just plain wrong.  He thought we would get bounced by the Heat last year, as has been alluded to above.

It's hard to defend the trade, at least now.  We have lost something - toughness, identity, you name it.  I'm not convinced we can't find "it", recover, and have a great run.  Shaq would go a long ways toward helping us in this aim, but even if he can't play all the games, I do think Murphy (I know he's looked bad, but had a decent showing vs. the Wiz)) can step in and be the 5th big.

A few things:

a) Probably the greatest team in the modern era, the 95-96 Bulls, had some great players who were tough.  But none of them were bigger than 6-8 (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman).  Their tallest rotation guys were Longley, Kukoc, and Wennington - none known for toughness.  Clearly, that was an immensely talented team, who had a clear identity which revolved around Jordan and Pippen.

b) Even after the departure of Perk, we have a lot of size and weight.  From the sound of things, Chicago is much bigger and stronger on the inside than we are.  We have plenty of size and weight on our roster as compared to them, re the below.  It's how we use it. 

c) In my mind, it comes down to this: how bad do they want it?  Will Rondo run it every night?  Will Krstic play defense like he did against SAS (he was quite scrappy that night, at least for him)?   There is a long list of questions like that, to which if the answer is yes, then I think we have a shot.  Clearly, Chicago wanted it more than the Cs Thursday night, then shoved it in their faces.  Next move is Boston's. 


Shaq    7-1      325         Noah   6-11      232
JON   6-11      255         Boozer   6-9      266
Krstic   7-0      240         Gibson   6-9      225
KG   6-11      253         Asik   7-0      255
Baby   6-9      289         Thomas   6-9      230
Murphy   6-11      245