Do we blow it all up next year?

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Ray Allen is difficult to trade because he has a player option for next season and a trade kicker.  His contract is basically designed to make it a bit harder to trade him.  Paul Pierce might have a no-trade clause.

If you want to blow up the team, it probably means trading KG as an expiring $20 million contract and possibly trading Rondo.

I think Ray would be easiest to trade.  He won't be able to opt out once summer hits, then it's just a matter of trading him and two #1's for Al Jefferson.

KG is the key to the team's defense, and, consequently, hopes to contend.  He won't be traded.  Rondo is a top PG etc. etc., and won't be traded either.  PP was resigned to retire a Celtic, and also won't be traded.

That leaves Ray, who was on the block last season, as the only member of the 4 to possibly not return next season (whenver that is).

I'll start the rumour:

RAY ALLEN (and picks) FOR AL JEFFERSON!

[Boris Badenov]

Salary-wise we're built to blow up by default after 2012. Danny has planned this pretty carefully, so why would he change the timetable? Even if we are a 45-win first-round out next year, the team will still be one of the biggest draws in the league, home and away.

Blowing a team up is a good strategy when it's mired in the middle of the pack, with little/no cap flexibility, but has valuable assets to trade. That isn't our situation at all.

[jambr380]

Ray Allen is difficult to trade because he has a player option for next season and a trade kicker.  His contract is basically designed to make it a bit harder to trade him.  Paul Pierce might have a no-trade clause.

If you want to blow up the team, it probably means trading KG as an expiring $20 million contract and possibly trading Rondo.

I think Ray would be easiest to trade.  He won't be able to opt out once summer hits, then it's just a matter of trading him and two #1's for Al Jefferson.

KG is the key to the team's defense, and, consequently, hopes to contend.  He won't be traded.  Rondo is a top PG etc. etc., and won't be traded either.  PP was resigned to retire a Celtic, and also won't be traded.

That leaves Ray, who was on the block last season, as the only member of the 4 to possibly not return next season (whenver that is).

I'll start the rumour:

RAY ALLEN (and picks) FOR AL JEFFERSON!

I don't know that re-acquiring Big Al is a new rumor, but it certainly is a good one. I hate to lose Ray, but Al has a much brighter future. He isn't in Dwight Howard territory, but that deal would definitely make us poised to compete next year and in the future.

[Drucci]

If you trade Ray, you have to replace him with a guy who can bring at least the 1/3 of the spacing Ray brought to the team. Who would be that guy?

[LooseCannon]

I think Ray would be easiest to trade.  He won't be able to opt out once summer hits, then it's just a matter of trading him and two #1's for Al Jefferson.

His trade kicker makes it so that what Boston treats as outgoing salary is not the same as what the other team treats as incoming salary.  So, if he were traded this summer, the Celtics treat his salary as $10 million in terms of matching numbers, but the other team has to treat his salary as $11.5 million.  It's sort of like base-year compensation, but since the kicker is limited to 15% of a contract's remaining value, it's not as difficult to work around.

Al Jefferson is scheduled to make $14 million in 2011-2012, so Ray plus picks for Big Al doesn't work under current rules.

I suspect that blowing up the team would involve trying to make a midseason trade for an unhappy superstar who has several years left on his contract rather than making some offseason deals.

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If you trade Ray, you have to replace him with a guy who can bring at least the 1/3 of the spacing Ray brought to the team. Who would be that guy?

Well, for spacing, I guess it would be anyone that can hit an open 3 above 35% or so.

As far as matching salaries with Big Al, I'd offer to S&T Dana Barros to make the money match, by which I mean, the principles are close enough to make something happen.

And I wouldn't really consider trading Ray to be blowing it up, by the way.  As previous posters noted, the team is scheduled to blow up in 2012.

[slamtheking]

Just a quick explanation where this is coming from. 

With this team playing half-hearted basketball the past couple of years down the stretch and the nonstop excuses promoted by some followers that this team is old and should just rest during the season until the playoffs, I'm wondering if there's any desire out there to start moving out older players for younger players that do not need to coast during the season.

  So the fact that some people don't hit the panic button as soon as you means Danny should blow the team up?

Panic Button?  hardly.

The way I look at it is this: when we had the young players, Danny and Doc used to continually tell the fanbase that this team lacks the experience to win close games.  In short, experience wins. 

In the first 2 years of the current era, I'd go along with that however I'd add the stipulation that it's really experienced, driven talent that wins games. 

In the past 2 years, this team has coasted at the end of seasons rather than go all out to win every game.  The mentality has been that health for this team will trump HCA for other teams.  We saw last year that it really didn't hold up because the C's couldn't stay healthy through the Finals and the HCA for the Lakers may have been what put them over the top.

What I'm wondering (and looking for the feedback of others) is if this philosophy of coasting at the end of the season in the hopes of keeping/getting everyone healthy doesn't result in a title (or even if it does), is it time to look at acquiring younger talent that can stay healthy AND play hard throughout the year?

I don't think it's time to panic at all however I'm getting tired of the coasting at the end of the season.  Last year they were too tired to finish off the Lakers in game 7 and they're looking run down again at the end of this season.  If they don't have the stamina to carry the team through the finals, it may be time to move on.  I don't think we'll know for sure until they've won the title (which I believe they still can do but not as strongly as I did before the trade) or been knocked out of the playoffs.  I think anything short of another finals appearance is an indicator that it's time to look into other options.

[jambr380]

I should say that I voted for blowing it up if they lose in the 2nd round. They should win, but I am sure the Heat fans think the same thing and won't be totally surprised if they win.

It should also be said that by trading players like Ray or even KG, it allows us to keep our salaries up into luxury tax territory, which is great for us, but bad for the owners. If those players just retire, we are going to have to rebuild all over again from below the salary cap. This method hurt us back in the day (ie trading an expiring Antoine for the crippling contract of Raef), but to trade these players, we would have to get something that would clearly benefit this team.

[BballTim]

Just a quick explanation where this is coming from. 

With this team playing half-hearted basketball the past couple of years down the stretch and the nonstop excuses promoted by some followers that this team is old and should just rest during the season until the playoffs, I'm wondering if there's any desire out there to start moving out older players for younger players that do not need to coast during the season.

  So the fact that some people don't hit the panic button as soon as you means Danny should blow the team up?

Panic Button?  hardly.

The way I look at it is this: when we had the young players, Danny and Doc used to continually tell the fanbase that this team lacks the experience to win close games.  In short, experience wins. 

In the first 2 years of the current era, I'd go along with that however I'd add the stipulation that it's really experienced, driven talent that wins games. 

In the past 2 years, this team has coasted at the end of seasons rather than go all out to win every game.  The mentality has been that health for this team will trump HCA for other teams.  We saw last year that it really didn't hold up because the C's couldn't stay healthy through the Finals and the HCA for the Lakers may have been what put them over the top.

What I'm wondering (and looking for the feedback of others) is if this philosophy of coasting at the end of the season in the hopes of keeping/getting everyone healthy doesn't result in a title (or even if it does), is it time to look at acquiring younger talent that can stay healthy AND play hard throughout the year?

I don't think it's time to panic at all however I'm getting tired of the coasting at the end of the season.  Last year they were too tired to finish off the Lakers in game 7 and they're looking run down again at the end of this season.  If they don't have the stamina to carry the team through the finals, it may be time to move on.  I don't think we'll know for sure until they've won the title (which I believe they still can do but not as strongly as I did before the trade) or been knocked out of the playoffs.  I think anything short of another finals appearance is an indicator that it's time to look into other options.

  So even if we win the title you'd be in favor of breaking up the team in order to get a group of players who will try harder late in the regular season? Yikes!

[slamtheking]

Just a quick explanation where this is coming from. 

With this team playing half-hearted basketball the past couple of years down the stretch and the nonstop excuses promoted by some followers that this team is old and should just rest during the season until the playoffs, I'm wondering if there's any desire out there to start moving out older players for younger players that do not need to coast during the season.

  So the fact that some people don't hit the panic button as soon as you means Danny should blow the team up?

Panic Button?  hardly.

The way I look at it is this: when we had the young players, Danny and Doc used to continually tell the fanbase that this team lacks the experience to win close games.  In short, experience wins. 

In the first 2 years of the current era, I'd go along with that however I'd add the stipulation that it's really experienced, driven talent that wins games. 

In the past 2 years, this team has coasted at the end of seasons rather than go all out to win every game.  The mentality has been that health for this team will trump HCA for other teams.  We saw last year that it really didn't hold up because the C's couldn't stay healthy through the Finals and the HCA for the Lakers may have been what put them over the top.

What I'm wondering (and looking for the feedback of others) is if this philosophy of coasting at the end of the season in the hopes of keeping/getting everyone healthy doesn't result in a title (or even if it does), is it time to look at acquiring younger talent that can stay healthy AND play hard throughout the year?

I don't think it's time to panic at all however I'm getting tired of the coasting at the end of the season.  Last year they were too tired to finish off the Lakers in game 7 and they're looking run down again at the end of this season.  If they don't have the stamina to carry the team through the finals, it may be time to move on.  I don't think we'll know for sure until they've won the title (which I believe they still can do but not as strongly as I did before the trade) or been knocked out of the playoffs.  I think anything short of another finals appearance is an indicator that it's time to look into other options.

  So even if we win the title you'd be in favor of breaking up the team in order to get a group of players who will try harder late in the regular season? Yikes!

No, I'm the one vote that for blowing it up if they lose in the ECF.  My thought process is that if this occurs, they lost to Chicago in a manner where HCA played a role, hence my concern with the current roster of older players not having the stamina to play hard every night for HCA and finding that for the second consecutive year, they don't have enough in the tank to win a title.  If they get to the finals, I'm fine with taking another run at it with the same core.  I'm not sure how Danny's going to fill in the roster around them but that'll be Danny's problem.

[slamtheking]

by the way, thanks to all that have provided some good insights on this forum.  I appreciate the different viewpoints on this -- even BballTim's questioning of my opinions to keep me honest.  tp's to all for your comments.

[Eja117]

We have an aging team that can't get or stay healthy.  If they aren't fairly healthy in the postseason and don't play all that well in the postseason then I think the blowup is totally overdue. Maybe wait till the beginning of next year when they are playing their best and sell high

[slamtheking]

after the debacles against the Bulls and Heat, I felt compelled to bump this thread to see if there's been a change in opinions.

[birdwatcher]

This may seem like a stretch, but if there's a shortened season next year, why not keep the core together for one more abbreviated year? Kinda like when the Spurs won it the first time with Duncan & Robinson. What was it, a 50ish game season? They whupped the Knicks 4-1? Taking 1/3 of the season away, as sad as it sounds, may leave the window open a crack...

[Chris]

This may seem like a stretch, but if there's a shortened season next year, why not keep the core together for one more abbreviated year? Kinda like when the Spurs won it the first time with Duncan & Robinson. What was it, a 50ish game season? They whupped the Knicks 4-1? Taking 1/3 of the season away, as sad as it sounds, may leave the window open a crack...

Yeah, I think an abreviated year makes it a no brainer to go for it one more time.  Beyond the fresher legs, the shortened offseason is just going to make player movement much harder anyways.