Author Topic: The best player in "the trade"  (Read 15184 times)

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Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2011, 01:56:54 PM »

Offline bbd24

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OKC is on tear recently... basically since Perkins entered the lineup.

Don't know Perks numbers but the whole chemistry theory with Perkins seems to be in effect over there.

Their on a tear because Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka are playing out of their minds.  Especially Ibaka.  He's been tearing fools apart, while Durant has been nothing but nylon.

Perkins played all but 14 minutes TOTAL last game. 4 fouls. Had 13 pts in 14 mins TOTAL.  He's a scoring machine now over there !

Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2011, 01:57:32 PM »

Offline ballin

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I just don't see anything in Green yet. He has value as a minutes sponge for average production. That's nice, as with him on your team you can basically be guaranteed passable all-around play from two spots on the floor when your starters are resting. Good to have, but it seems to be a far cry from "best in the trade" let alone "borderline allstar," a label that has actually been seriously thrown around.

Basically, I don't see any difference between Green and, say, Marvin Williams, or a slightly worse version of Al Harrington (a guy who was statistically almost exactly an average small forward able to play 35+ MPG to get to his respectable numbers).

Just for thought:
Clearly, Green's greater contributions are currently on offense, so we'll concentrate there:
PER:
55th for PFs (around Al Harrington), 29th for SFs (around turkoglu/julian wright)
Rebound Rate:
75th PFs (Gallinari/Diaw/Rashard Lewis), 33rd for SFs (Outlaw, Granger, Al Thornton)
True Shooting:
42nd PFs (Favors, Josh Smith), 27th SF (Marion/Deng/Chandler)
Assist Rate:
44th PFs (Zach Randolph, Bosh), 49th SF (Marion, Outlaw, Chandler)
Estimated Wins:
41st PFs (Diaw, Gibson, Camby, Wilcox), 25th SFs (Marvin W, Battier, Delfino)


So what does he do above average? What does he doe that isn't replaceable with just a little planning? I don't see anything yet.
So it seems like he's a low-middle starter at SF and deep bench PF. He ends up looking a lot like Marvin, Marion, Outlaw, basically all of whom are thought to be currently overpaid at salaries quite a bit lower than what Green has been rumored to be after. Hopefully he either flips a switch, signs for much less than expected, or is not in the future plans.

I've got to agree with you. Jeff Green is one of those "potential" guys that will never materialize into anything other than an average player. Sorry, but he's a role player on any contender, and we shouldn't get fooled into paying him like he's more than just that; a role player.
so is Perkins.  what is your point?

that if you trade the starting center on a team with the best record in the conference, it better not be for freaking role players. ESPECIALLY if that makes you more reliant on an aging Shaq and a decrepit Jermaine O'Neal.


Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2011, 01:59:08 PM »

Offline ballin

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OKC is on tear recently... basically since Perkins entered the lineup.

Don't know Perks numbers but the whole chemistry theory with Perkins seems to be in effect over there.

Their on a tear because Westbrook, Durant, and Ibaka are playing out of their minds.  Especially Ibaka.  He's been tearing fools apart, while Durant has been nothing but nylon.

Perkins played all but 14 minutes TOTAL last game. 4 fouls. Had 13 pts in 14 mins TOTAL.  He's a scoring machine now over there !

Your sarcasm doesn't even make sense; 13 pts in 14 mins extrapolates out to over 30 points in a game if he played a full 36 minutes, so why would you knock on his scoring? I don't have anything else nice to say about your post.

Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2011, 03:31:33 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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Meh perks been average at best.



Somebody hasn't been watching

6 points 7.7 rebounds 1 block in 24 minutes. About what you would expect from Perk. But that doesn't reflect his "toughness"
times players reconsidered driving the paint - incalculable

times other players played defense more aggressively because Perk was behind them - maybe every single time

times players on Perk's team played harder because they didn't want him to throw them down a flight of stairs - incalculable

extra confidence had because he was around - unknown

amount of fans, coaches, and players that miss Krstic - probably none

 Awesome, Awesome, Awesome Post. A million Tp's to you.

 That's everything I'm trying to say in a nutshell.

 The way Perk plays you can't measure in a Box Score.

 And I should know. I'm the same type of player in my b ball league, and I'm awesome just like Perk and we rarely loose.

Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2011, 03:35:26 PM »

Offline twistedrico

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In the long run, it is going to be obvious that The Celtics got the best of this trade especially if Green resigns with them...

Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2011, 05:06:29 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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In the long run, it is going to be obvious that The Celtics got the best of this trade especially if Green resigns with them...

Likely the C's will get the better of this deal "long term," but only due to the LAC pick that could be gold several years from now. I'd say there's a very good chance that we end up better off if Green DOESN'T re-sign. I have a feeling, based on reputation, he's going to be the next Outaw/Marvin/Harrington: Immediately overpaid for average 3/4 spot production.

Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2011, 05:20:52 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Who cares who the "best player in the trade" is?

Each team did the trade for their own reasons.  I guess the idea of "best player" is great fodder for discussion among fans but when it comes down to it, it really doesn't mean squat.


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Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2011, 05:42:44 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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Meh perks been average at best.



Somebody hasn't been watching

6 points 7.7 rebounds 1 block in 24 minutes. About what you would expect from Perk. But that doesn't reflect his "toughness"
times players reconsidered driving the paint - incalculable

times other players played defense more aggressively because Perk was behind them - maybe every single time

times players on Perk's team played harder because they didn't want him to throw them down a flight of stairs - incalculable

extra confidence had because he was around - unknown

amount of fans, coaches, and players that miss Krstic - probably none

Very cute.  I don't know about the others, but the answer to the last one ends up being at least one.
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Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2011, 05:48:27 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I just don't see anything in Green yet. He has value as a minutes sponge for average production. That's nice, as with him on your team you can basically be guaranteed passable all-around play from two spots on the floor when your starters are resting. Good to have, but it seems to be a far cry from "best in the trade" let alone "borderline allstar," a label that has actually been seriously thrown around.

Basically, I don't see any difference between Green and, say, Marvin Williams, or a slightly worse version of Al Harrington (a guy who was statistically almost exactly an average small forward able to play 35+ MPG to get to his respectable numbers).

Just for thought:
Clearly, Green's greater contributions are currently on offense, so we'll concentrate there:
PER:
55th for PFs (around Al Harrington), 29th for SFs (around turkoglu/julian wright)
Rebound Rate:
75th PFs (Gallinari/Diaw/Rashard Lewis), 33rd for SFs (Outlaw, Granger, Al Thornton)
True Shooting:
42nd PFs (Favors, Josh Smith), 27th SF (Marion/Deng/Chandler)
Assist Rate:
44th PFs (Zach Randolph, Bosh), 49th SF (Marion, Outlaw, Chandler)
Estimated Wins:
41st PFs (Diaw, Gibson, Camby, Wilcox), 25th SFs (Marvin W, Battier, Delfino)


So what does he do above average? What does he doe that isn't replaceable with just a little planning? I don't see anything yet.
So it seems like he's a low-middle starter at SF and deep bench PF. He ends up looking a lot like Marvin, Marion, Outlaw, basically all of whom are thought to be currently overpaid at salaries quite a bit lower than what Green has been rumored to be after. Hopefully he either flips a switch, signs for much less than expected, or is not in the future plans.

I've got to agree with you. Jeff Green is one of those "potential" guys that will never materialize into anything other than an average player. Sorry, but he's a role player on any contender, and we shouldn't get fooled into paying him like he's more than just that; a role player.
so is Perkins.  what is your point?

that if you trade the starting center on a team with the best record in the conference, it better not be for freaking role players. ESPECIALLY if that makes you more reliant on an aging Shaq and a decrepit Jermaine O'Neal.


C's traded a role player for a role player. 
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Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2011, 07:01:45 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Plus, it seems to be implying that OKC giving up a lot in the deal is evidence that they got the better of it, which is a novel way of assessing a trade.

How is that the implication?  I said that Presti thought that Perk was worth at least as much as he gave up, and thus, better than any of the individual pieces.  I didn't use Presti's opinion as proof that he won the trade, but rather that he valued Perk as the best player in the deal.

So you don't think OKC got the best of the trade?

Wow.  Two posts in a row that put words in my mouth.  Come on, guys, you're all better than this.  Read what people actually say, rather than looking between the lines for implied meaning.  I'm sorry to sound like a drama queen, but this has happened consistently around here lately, and it's getting old.  You guys are all really good posters who I respect, which I guess is why I'm taken aback by people ascribing meaning to me that I never expressed.

Yes, I think OKC got the better of the trade.  However, my previous post had nothing to do with that stance; it was talking about Presti's individual evaluation of the worth of the individual players involved.

I actually think your original post was well-stated and showed how the gms viewed the trade, leaving out your bias. You clearly weren't happy with the trade when it happened (and I imagine you still feel similarly), but you showed a positive attitude in saying that we hope to see Perk reach Big Al status with Boston fans. I like that comparison.

Hopefully the Celtics win the championship this year and all of the animosity will go away around here...

Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2011, 07:12:30 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
I actually think your original post was well-stated and showed how the gms viewed the trade, leaving out your bias. You clearly weren't happy with the trade when it happened (and I imagine you still feel similarly), but you showed a positive attitude in saying that we hope to see Perk reach Big Al status with Boston fans. I like that comparison.

Hopefully the Celtics win the championship this year and all of the animosity will go away around here...

I'm trying.  I've said my piece on what I thought Perk brought to the table, and have given my opinion on the trade ad nauseum.  At this point, all I can hope is that it's a trade that works out for both teams. 


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Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2011, 07:35:58 PM »

Offline dmopower

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I think with the hand we were delt with perks money requirements and the long term plans for the celts and even in the short term we made the best move for us!

I love Perk and his attitude and his obvious loyalty to the team and orginization as a whole, even with his flaws, and I would have loved to keep him, but we could not make it happen and be better for it and we could not afford to pay him what he was worth and deserves.

I think the funk we were in is partially because Rondo and Perk are so close that it affected Rondos heart and drive on the court and especially off of the court as he probably has a lot of down time at home now where he used to pal around with Perk, Human nature at its best.

I don't think Rondo is a bad guy at all, I love this kid.

We were without the big Turk as well as Perk and this was a big hit to us as I was pleasently pleased with him. And I think he was the biggest loss to us after loosing Perk and especially since we suddenly had neither.

 Green has a LOT ot untapped tallent and is showing something every night. Having him run the court with Rondo when Rondo is in the groove will be special, hopefully for years to come.

Another thing, I havent heard any complaints about not having a competent backup for Pierce latly, we have complained about this since Posey left and now we have one, and he will be able to play the 4 in crunch time just like posey making us more athletic and better shooters as well.

One thing I think some people on here dont understand is just how good of a job Von Wafer was doing at backup 2. We had been without him for nearly the entire time since trade and this kid IS making a difference on offense and defense. He has overachieved since being here and has been nothing but positive as far as i am concerned. He is another key element to our sucess as we are playing team bball and every part is important to the whole package.

 Just my thoughts on the trade. ok you can now rip me one if you must.
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Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2011, 10:09:18 PM »

Online tenn_smoothie

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Plus, it seems to be implying that OKC giving up a lot in the deal is evidence that they got the better of it, which is a novel way of assessing a trade.

How is that the implication?  I said that Presti thought that Perk was worth at least as much as he gave up, and thus, better than any of the individual pieces.  I didn't use Presti's opinion as proof that he won the trade, but rather that he valued Perk as the best player in the deal.

So you don't think OKC got the 'better' of the trade?  From what I've read here, it always seemed like you did.

figuring out who got the better of the trade is easy - look at the W - L records since that horrible day.

btw ........... which team now doesn't have a starting center because of injuries ? oh i forgot, Danny told us that Shaq would be back within a week of that deal and that was one reason he went ahead and traded Perk. we might as well be waiting on Bill Walton.
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Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #58 on: April 01, 2011, 11:30:37 PM »

Offline vinnie

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If jeff green is the best  player in the trade, he has been a disappointment so far. Way too timid. Looks afraid to be on the court at times. Looks like it Is going to take a lot more time to make him an integral part of the offense

Re: The best player in "the trade"
« Reply #59 on: April 01, 2011, 11:36:48 PM »

Offline LB3533

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If jeff green is the best  player in the trade, he has been a disappointment so far. Way too timid. Looks afraid to be on the court at times. Looks like it Is going to take a lot more time to make him an integral part of the offense

You can tell if he's afraid on the court LOL??

Jeff has you fooled man....all I see is one cool cat...just like Ray Allen.