Optimistic about Shaq/JO

[barefacedmonk]

Shaq - same story just another day...

[Fafnir]

Just doesn't sound good to me...

Nope, it doesn't sound good at all.

[mgent]

My biggest fear for this season:


The O'Neals do not return to prove whether or not this was a good trade.  

One quibble:  if the O'Neals don't return, this was unquestionably not a good trade.

In your mind, perhaps.  But lets not assume everyone sees it that way.  Since I personally think they need at least 1 Oneal even with Perkins, I do not think it would be that cut and dry, and there would still be a discussion, depending on many more factors. 

No, trading your only starting C for a backup C and a backup SF is by all means a bad trade if we don't have any other centers to step in.

And I hate that people are so quick to count out Perk.  We won in 08 with a much worse inexperienced Perk and an old PJ Brown.  An older improved Perk plus Big Baby would be far from an automatic loss.  It would at least be 100 times better than Krstic+Baby.

[Chris]

My biggest fear for this season:


The O'Neals do not return to prove whether or not this was a good trade.  

One quibble:  if the O'Neals don't return, this was unquestionably not a good trade.

In your mind, perhaps.  But lets not assume everyone sees it that way.  Since I personally think they need at least 1 Oneal even with Perkins, I do not think it would be that cut and dry, and there would still be a discussion, depending on many more factors. 

No, trading your only starting C for a backup C and a backup SF is by all means a bad trade if we don't have any other centers to step in.

And I hate that people are so quick to count out Perk.  We won in 08 with a much worse inexperienced Perk and an old PJ Brown.  An older improved Perk plus Big Baby would be far from an automatic loss.  It would at least be 100 times better than Krstic+Baby.

All I am saying is that there are other variables. 

What if the C's do step up and win a championship?  Still a bad trade?

What if Perk doesn't hold up physically?  Still a bad trade?

What if we lose because Pierce/Rondo/Allen/KG go down with a season ending injury?  Still a bad trade?

Now, you could still say yes to those, but I don't think it is cut and dry.  So, while it may be your opinion, it is not "unquestionable".

[j804]

My biggest fear for this season:


The O'Neals do not return to prove whether or not this was a good trade.  

One quibble:  if the O'Neals don't return, this was unquestionably not a good trade.

In your mind, perhaps.  But lets not assume everyone sees it that way.  Since I personally think they need at least 1 Oneal even with Perkins, I do not think it would be that cut and dry, and there would still be a discussion, depending on many more factors. 

No, trading your only starting C for a backup C and a backup SF is by all means a bad trade if we don't have any other centers to step in.

And I hate that people are so quick to count out Perk.  We won in 08 with a much worse inexperienced Perk and an old PJ Brown.  An older improved Perk plus Big Baby would be far from an automatic loss.  It would at least be 100 times better than Krstic+Baby.

There is no way to beat around the bush anymore.

It is clear cut this was a awful trade.

Danny screwed up big time.

[PosImpos]

If neither of the O'Neals comes back and contributes, then we can say that the gamble Danny took did not work out.

Hence, it would have to be seen as not such a great trade, even a really bad one.  It is worth pointing out, however, that without the trade and neither of the O'Neals, our center depth would be Perk and Big Baby.  That's it.  Maybe a hobbled Troy Murphy as well.  I have sincere doubts that that would be enough, either.


I think, though, that the fact that the goodness or badness of the trade is going to be evaluated depending on whether we get significant production out of 1 of 2 injury prone centers that we signed in the off-season points to a different issue.  If anything, I'd say Danny ought to be blamed for signing two injury prone centers in the off-season when he knew center depth was going to be a serious issue for us this year - especially if he had any idea that he might trade Perk mid-season due to his contract expiring.

[StartOrien]

Ugh. Might be best just to log out for a while.

[vinnie]

Bottom line is if the Celtics do not at least get to the finals, the trade will be blamed -- and I will be at the front of that pack.

[SHAQATTACK]

Man... if the C's pull this season out their butt without a real center  (no ONeals , I'll consider it a miracle

I believe it will play out like this.  C's will play without Shaq rest of regualr season.  Everybody here knows you can't risk tweeking it any worse or its all over.  If his leg gets worse , then the fat lady has sang her song. Can't use him up on a stupid regular season game. I think this is Doc and Dannys feelings on bringing him back.

Shaq might start in the first round (a risk).  But, I doubt it, I think they will try and wait to a latter round matchup to bring him in.

We only have ONE silver bullet to kill the beast or rather get to the finals and probally see the LA bigs.

I think he returns IF we get past the first round with Krstic and JO at center.  

Then throw him in and see what happens.


I'm a realist ..... Perk wasn't a MVP NBA wise, but he was a HUGE part of the puzzle that made the Celtics go.


 

[Assassin70]

My biggest fear for this season:


The O'Neals do not return to prove whether or not this was a good trade.  

One quibble:  if the O'Neals don't return, this was unquestionably not a good trade.

In your mind, perhaps.  But lets not assume everyone sees it that way.  Since I personally think they need at least 1 Oneal even with Perkins, I do not think it would be that cut and dry, and there would still be a discussion, depending on many more factors. 

No, trading your only starting C for a backup C and a backup SF is by all means a bad trade if we don't have any other centers to step in.

And I hate that people are so quick to count out Perk.  We won in 08 with a much worse inexperienced Perk and an old PJ Brown.  An older improved Perk plus Big Baby would be far from an automatic loss.  It would at least be 100 times better than Krstic+Baby.

There is no way to beat around the bush anymore.

It is clear cut this was a awful trade.

Danny screwed up big time.

Until the season is over you can't fairly say it is clear cut.  And even then the trade was made for the future of the franchise.

I am not really a fan of the trade but the jury is still out.

[Jon]

As I've said many times before, I'm very curious about what JO can bring to the table.  He has the talent and potential to be the best center we've had all year.  He's nearly the defender Perk was (and a better shot blocker), can hit a jumper almost as well as Krstic, and has post moves (though not quite on Shaq's level). 

If he could give us a prorated performance of last year, we could be in very, very good shape. 

[angryguy77]

  It is worth pointing out, however, that without the trade and neither of the O'Neals, our center depth would be Perk and Big Baby.  That's it.  Maybe a hobbled Troy Murphy as well.  I have sincere doubts that that would be enough, either.

It's this point that many people are forgetting. Anti-trade or not, could anyone really think we would have had a shot if we went into the playoffs with Perk and BB as our only centers?

I don't think we get by LA with that lineup. You have to figure in a couple games that Perk would have been in foul trouble which would allow LA to go crazy in the paint.

Bottom line is our title hopes rested on our centers being healthy regardless if we had Perk.

[KobeShesNotConsenting!]

what if JO just surprised the crap outta everyone and averaged like 13 and 7 (he is 31 right?) and shaq somehow got back in like a week and averaged 12 and 6? A guy can dream right?

[Jon]

what if JO just surprised the crap outta everyone and averaged like 13 and 7 (he is 31 right?) and shaq somehow got back in like a week and averaged 12 and 6? A guy can dream right?

I'd take a prorated version of those stats in a heartbeat (meaning that JO would need 28-30 mpg to get 13 and 7, when he's likely only to get 15-20 mpg). 

[Jon]

I have to say (as you can see from this thread), I always thought JO could make it back.  However, tonight even exceeded my expectations. 

While his 5 points and 1 board were hardly anything to write home about, he clearly showed no lingering effects of his injury other than a lack of stamina and a need to get the plays more clearly down.  Even more importantly, he looked quite comfortable out there.  He had that nice post up move, the under the basket layup, and he even drew a (non-shooting foul) by flailing his arms when Ginoboli went for a steal. 

I really think that as he gets his legs back and works with the team, we could see him become the player he was in Miami prior to the playoffs.  Also, going on a bit of a limb, I could see him supplanting Baby at the end of games.  He can provide a similar offensive punch and obviously provides a lot more on the defensive end.