Thank you Danny Ainge for ruining this season

[Tai]

For those of you who bashed the trade, I have a relatively simple request. Figure out the minutes on who'd play shooting guard and small forward for 48 minutes.

Right now I'd guess:

SF: Pierce (35) / Green (13)
SG: Allen (35) / West (13)

Before the trade my best guess is:

SF: Pierce (35)/ Wafer (13)
SG: Allen (35) / West (13)

If the playoffs were to end today we'd have the Knicks & Carmelo in the first and the Heat & Lebron in the second. Were you comfortable with either Von Wafer (and/or Sasha Pavlovic) playing at least 13 minutes (Pierce could get into foul trouble to increase time) or having Pierce play 40 minutes per night in the opening two rounds of the playoffs?

If you were, we can agree to disagree. If you weren't I think you need to reassess your position.

yea exactly tp
No Tai Wafer should not see the floor. In the playoffs Doc should use a three guard rotation Rondo,Allen,West. Green must play 15-20 at SF while we dont overplay Paul.

Why should Wafer not see the floor? If he's still injured and can't get back up how he was doing before that, then fine, but I don't see how he's not playoff-worthy, Assuming West is the backup PG, who takes up the backup SG minutes? I don't wanna see Doc get creative out of necessity more than by design.

[StartOrien]

Tai, I think you're looking at it too simply. Here's what I'd guess the minute breakdown would be 1-3 (4 &5 get a little more complicated)

PG: Rondo (40) / West (8 )
SG: Allen (35) / West (13)
SF: Pierce (35) / Green (13)

I don't think asking 21 minutes of a healthy Delonte is too much to ask, he played 30 minutes per game with some frequency last year w/ the Cavs.

Wafe could see some spot minutes if Rondo needs a rest or is in foul trouble (alotting more minutes to West at the PG) but I don't think he'll see regular time.

[celts55]

Here's the way i see it. the Celtics traded a banged up, recovering from knee surgery, going to leave at the end of the year center for a very good young player in Green and a desent back up big. The team had one of the best records in the league without Perkins playing so I don't see that as being the problem.
I do agree that having at least one of the O'neal's back should help, but the biggest problem is that for whatever reason the Celtics continue to go on long runs each game when they just can not score. I don't see how Perk fixes that, but the offense just goes out of whack. The ball movement stops, Ray doesn't get any touches, Rondo starts playing at half speed, KG can't hit a shot, West hasn't been the same player since he's been back, etc. Last night it also didn't help that they missed something like 5 of 8 free throws down the streach.
Blame the trade if you want, but I just don't see that as the problem. If all of a sudden the defense went south than maybe, but that's not even close to their biggest problem.

[Vermont Green]

I still support the trade in terms of the talent that was exchanged.  I think we "won" that aspect.  What Ainge may have bungled is his assessment of Shaq's health.  If Shaq isn't back and healthy and back real soon, it is going to be hard to defend this trade.  JO returning and contributing as a starter is probably less likely but that could potentially save Ainge as well.

Even without Shaq or Jerm, I think this team can and will play better but not very likely they can play well enough to meet most fans' expectation of a title or bust.  You never know though, I think there is quite a bit of talent there.

[StartOrien]

I still support the trade in terms of the talent that was exchanged.  I think we "won" that aspect.  What Ainge may have bungled is his assessment of Shaq's health.  If Shaq isn't back and healthy and back real soon, it is going to be hard to defend this trade.  JO returning and contributing as a starter is probably less likely but that could potentially save Ainge as well.

Even without Shaq or Jerm, I think this team can and will play better but not very likely they can play well enough to meet most fans' expectation of a title or bust.  You never know though, I think there is quite a bit of talent there.

I'll be intersted to see what becomes of the training staff this off-season. If Jermaine & Shaq can't get back they have to shoulder a lot of the blame - both for not healing two injured players but in all likelihood providing Danny with inaccurate information regarding their recovery.

[Lord_of_the17Rings]

How anyone can criticize Ainge after what he has accomplished here is beyond me.

I think as fans we need to put our faith in the job Danny has done and the job he is going to do in the future.

I have no doubts I trust Ainge to run this team completely.

A few thoughts on this comment:

I don't think any GM is above critism.  Every move a GM makes can be examined and debated.  In my mind, Danny has some great strengths.  The draft being one - we're all familiar with the impressive track record of quality players, particularly picking in the mid to late round.  He, also not unlike Belichick, seems to be able to detach himself from the heat of the moment and always look towards the future.  Patience is a big part of this as well.

On the flip side, not all of his decisions have panned out.  Wally, Ricky, Raef, and Telfair come to mind. (I still remember being there on Max's night when Ainge was loudly boo'd by the fans).

Sure one can argue that everything Ainge did up until '07 was a master plan to land KG but I think that is oversimplifying things a bit.  I also think that one trade (no matter how franchise altering it was), does not mean that he won't make trade mistakes or other mistakes in the future.

[Cman]

I believe the Perkins trade will be looked upon as the end of the era of Garnett, Allen and Pierce...the team will never be the same again.

Nah. History will point to the deflating loss to LA in the 2010 Finals.  History will just view DA's trade of Perk as acknowledgement of the inevitable.

[Roy H.]

I didn't like the trade, and I still don't like it.  Myself and others predicted that the team would struggle post-trade, and would fall to the #3 seed.  Even though we received more talent (and thus won the trade "on paper"), Danny gutted some of the heart, physicality, and chemistry from this team, and I think that has hurt us and will continue to hurt us. 

All that said, the season isn't over yet.  This stretch has hurt our title chances, but it hasn't eliminated them by any stretch.  There's no denying that there's still a ton of talent on this team, arguably more talent than any other team in the NBA.  It will be on the players and the coaching staff to figure out how to re-gain the magic that they had earlier in the season.  While that may seem improbable to many, it's still a very possible outcome.

[StartOrien]

I apologize in advance, cuz I'm sure you've answered this question a billion times, Roy, but what would you've done about the lack of the backup 3?  My memory is far from great, was there someone that was moved at the deadline that we might've had a shot at?

[EJPLAYA]

I'm betting if we win a championship this year you'll find some way to forgive him. Once we're out of the playoffs, THEN this may be more appropriate.

That being said, while I loved Perk, he wasn't going to end up re-signing with us most likely. Arguably Shaq if healthy was going to see the floor as much if not more than Perk as we are better with Shaq out there. Green is going to be IMO PP's replacement and will allow us to have a chance at a future. While that could be all wrong, it is definitely too early to tell.

[More Banners]

I didn't like the trade, and I still don't like it.  Myself and others predicted that the team would struggle post-trade, and would fall to the #3 seed.  Even though we received more talent (and thus won the trade "on paper"), Danny gutted some of the heart, physicality, and chemistry from this team, and I think that has hurt us and will continue to hurt us. 

All that said, the season isn't over yet.  This stretch has hurt our title chances, but it hasn't eliminated them by any stretch.  There's no denying that there's still a ton of talent on this team, arguably more talent than any other team in the NBA.  It will be on the players and the coaching staff to figure out how to re-gain the magic that they had earlier in the season.  While that may seem improbable to many, it's still a very possible outcome.

Sort of like trading away Danny Fortson.  That one hurt.

[Marcus13]

It is what it is.  We traded our way out of being the favorite -but we are still a a legit second round team for the playoffs.

He made us a contendor.  He has the right to trade us out of that position I guess

[PosImpos]

Mike

Sorry, imho youre wrong, more than that, youre absolutly wrong
Without those moves Cs were facing the season with 7 players
all of them banged,  a bunch of rookies and Nate

If we are 10-8 with those 7 maybe we were 5 and 13

Edgar

I'm with edgar on this one.

I don't buy that the trade was that bad from a personnel perspective.  In fact, I think we clearly won the trade on paper.

In practice, it doesn't seem so far that we've benefited that much.  However, I would say that if the team was so mentally fragile that losing Perk would put them in this kind of a funk, they didn't have what it takes to fight their way through 4 post-season series anyway.

I believe the Perkins trade will be looked upon as the end of the era of Garnett, Allen and Pierce...the team will never be the same again.

Nah. History will point to the deflating loss to LA in the 2010 Finals.  History will just view DA's trade of Perk as acknowledgement of the inevitable.

And that's how I view the trade now.  I think this slump is more a result of issues that were already present on the team.  I think the trade was Danny's preemptive attempt to stave off what he foresaw happening with this team as the season wore on and injuries continued to crop up.  In that sense the trade hasn't worked so far, but maybe if the team can get totally healthy by the first round we will see it differently.

[Roy H.]

I apologize in advance, cuz I'm sure you've answered this question a billion times, Roy, but what would you've done about the lack of the backup 3?  My memory is far from great, was there someone that was moved at the deadline that we might've had a shot at?

Reports are that we could have had Anthony Parker, and there's some speculation that we could have landed Battier; Houston is rumored (or at least speculated) to be the 3rd team in the Nate Robinson / Brandan Wright trade that we backed out of.

I would have taken either.

[PosImpos]

I apologize in advance, cuz I'm sure you've answered this question a billion times, Roy, but what would you've done about the lack of the backup 3?  My memory is far from great, was there someone that was moved at the deadline that we might've had a shot at?

Reports are that we could have had Anthony Parker, and there's some speculation that we could have landed Battier; Houston is rumored (or at least speculated) to be the 3rd team in the Nate Robinson / Brandan Wright trade that we backed out of.

I would have taken either.

If you look at what Houston ended up getting for Battier, it seems extremely unlikely that we could have gotten him.  As for Anthony Parker, I'm skeptical as to how useful he would have been.  In my mind he'd have been little better than Michael Finley was for us last year, maybe a bit more mobile.

While I can appreciate that you believe trading Perk was too much, I think some kind of significant trade was necessary.  We weren't going to go all the way riding Pierce with no real wing backup.