its not the trade guys...its the starters

[ejk3489]

Personally, if the trade is the issue driving this play, then that's inexcusable and the fault falls directly on the players. These men are being paid handsomely to make this team work, and if there are players who can no longer do that because Perkins was traded, then they need to be relocated themselves.

TP, Bo...if that's their (especially Rondo's) "excuse" for their poor play...Good Riddance

I have a hard time seeing Ray, PP or KG having the trade affect them like this. The Big 3's play, however, would be directly affected by Rondo's ineffectiveness.

If this is what it is, get over it Rondo. You're being paid like a big boy. Act like one.

Than what's Ray's, KG's, or Pierce's excuse? Because it's certainly not only Rondo who is playing below their capibility. And I don't buy that they are all effected by Rondo...at times yes, but it isn't all his fault.

And there has been quotes from the Big Three that suggest otherwise on not being effected by the trade.

[KobeShesNotConsenting!]

Personally, if the trade is the issue driving this play, then that's inexcusable and the fault falls directly on the players. These men are being paid handsomely to make this team work, and if there are players who can no longer do that because Perkins was traded, then they need to be relocated themselves.

TP, Bo...if that's their (especially Rondo's) "excuse" for their poor play...Good Riddance

I have a hard time seeing Ray, PP or KG having the trade affect them like this. The Big 3's play, however, would be directly affected by Rondo's ineffectiveness.

If this is what it is, get over it Rondo. You're being paid like a big boy. Act like one.

Than what's Ray's, KG's, or Pierce's excuse? Because it's certainly not only Rondo who is playing below their capibility. And I don't buy that they are all effected by Rondo...at times yes, but it isn't all his fault.

And there has been quotes from the Big Three that suggest otherwise on not being effected by the trade.

I disagree. I think the big 3's offensive play (especially Ray) is very much dependent on Rondo. Good examples are how ray's been playing lately and how the guys struggled earlier this year offensively without rondo. Everyone knows Rondo's the 'engine that stirs that drink' (sir charles). Let's keep some perspective and remember the big 3 are all in their mid 30's and can't constantly takeover like they used to. They need rondo's youth to pick them up and provide easy shots for them. So when he's going at about 55%, everyone else will struggle.

[ejk3489]

Personally, if the trade is the issue driving this play, then that's inexcusable and the fault falls directly on the players. These men are being paid handsomely to make this team work, and if there are players who can no longer do that because Perkins was traded, then they need to be relocated themselves.

TP, Bo...if that's their (especially Rondo's) "excuse" for their poor play...Good Riddance

I have a hard time seeing Ray, PP or KG having the trade affect them like this. The Big 3's play, however, would be directly affected by Rondo's ineffectiveness.

If this is what it is, get over it Rondo. You're being paid like a big boy. Act like one.

Than what's Ray's, KG's, or Pierce's excuse? Because it's certainly not only Rondo who is playing below their capibility. And I don't buy that they are all effected by Rondo...at times yes, but it isn't all his fault.

And there has been quotes from the Big Three that suggest otherwise on not being effected by the trade.

I disagree. I think the big 3's offensive play (especially Ray) is very much dependent on Rondo. Good examples are how ray's been playing lately and how the guys struggled earlier this year offensively without rondo. Everyone knows Rondo's the 'engine that stirs that drink' (sir charles). Let's keep some perspective and remember the big 3 are all in their mid 30's and can't constantly takeover like they used to. They need rondo's youth to pick them up and provide easy shots for them. So when he's going at about 55%, everyone else will struggle.

No, I agree that the Big 3 are very dependent on Rondo, but not to the point where they can't play well or make the right decisions when he's playing badly.

Rondo has nothing to do with the fact that Ray's shooting 30% over the last 3 games (on pretty good looks), or that Garnett has looked slow on defense, or Pierce attempting bad shots down the stretch last night, ect.

[celtics2]

Perk, we're losing because of Perk and concussion head, hahhhahaaha.
You guys with chicken livers are not up to what's going on. We had so many injuries the trainer is in the state of collapse. Basketball, the regular season sucks, baseball, the regular season is worse than sucks, football, well that's another story. In basketball we have to watch all these morons run up and down the court till the last 5 minutes so they can sell beer and hot dogs. Never watch a live game. I record em all. If the Celts lose I delete. If they win I'll watch some especially the 4 quarter. All that sweating. They should be dipped in deodorant. Otherwise there's more complaining between the players, refs, and coaches than in divorce court. Set the alarm clock to opening tap of the Playoffs and enjoy.

[alley oop]

..

[get_banners]

honestly, i think they're really really bored. sure, the trade hurt, but these aren't 22 year olds. these are mostly uber professionals, most of whom understand this is probably their last chance at a title, and a chance to put this team up as one of the great celtics squads. its pretty obvious they aren't playing with any urgency or focus. the trade obviously stung everyone, but i think the grind of the season has really hit us. as others have noted, we won with erden, we won with 7-8 man rotations...it's not the lack of bodies, or the chemistry (we've lost to bad teams...and its not like jeff green and kristic are bad teammates). we just need the postseason to get here as soon as possible. hopefully we can hold onto the #2 seed.

[housecall]

Lets be honest here, this team has won with semih erden, a 3rd string center as their starting center and beat teams like the Heat with a 7man rotation....its not the trade or the bench, Perks only been there for 12games. so this celtics team CAN win without him. and its merely an excuse to blame it on the trade

the key to all of this is the starting lineup...they arent playing like a starting lineup...they're coming into every game lackadaisical with no energy, no effort, letting the games get close, or giving up leads to poor teams. Rondo not pushing the ball and instead standing around until 5seconds are left, lack of passing..we saw against the hornets, knicks that the celtics can turn it on and give the extra effort when they want it...but sadly right now thats not a common effort..

and until the starters start giving more effort and playing to their potential, then the celtics will keep losing. 1st seed in the East is STILL at play..but its up to whether RR/RA/PP/KG still remember last year and want it bad enough...hopefully they get a wakeup call from doc

TP,i agree with most of what you're saying in your post but i want to add that in '08championship season they added PJ Brown midseason to the roster and the team didn't seem to skip a beat.They had a few games to make the adjustments and there it went.If Shaq had been available when the trade took place we probably wouldn't be having this conversation because Doc wouldn't had to use a role player in a starting role.I feel the problem is more to do with the starters at the moment and less to do with the trade.I don't feel Perks leaving have this big impact chemistry wise some want to say it is.From approx.Nov.to Feb.Perkins name was rarely mentioned,why surprising as it was the team was playing better with Shaq in the lineup than anyone expected.When the starters decide to play with more of a sense of urgency then things will turn around.There have been times ive felt this team could win with 4 on the court,thats how good they have played at times so how could a couple new additions cause them to become this disjointed.

Good take as always, Housecall. TPs to you and cman for spot on insight.

There are a bunch of things going on with this team right now - shot selection isn't good, ball movement isn't good, motion away from the ball is spotty at best, the point guard play is as poor as it's been since the Big 3 started, I don't see any effort whatsoever on either glass ...

You can take each of the five starters and clearly idenify a significant issue - in many cases, more than one - with their game right now.

More importantly, put it together and you get the results we're getting. Personally, if the trade is the issue driving this play, then that's inexcusable and the fault falls directly on the players. These men are being paid handsomely to make this team work, and if there are players who can no longer do that because Perkins was traded, then they need to be relocated themselves.

TP,i agree,if these veteran players are having issues making it work then maybe they aren't still the caliber of players we all feel they are.Im not buying the trade being the primary reason.My question is how can a group of players go nearly 90% of the season as the #1 seed accept losing that top spot without showing a bigger effort to hold on to it as we have seen lately?I think that concerns me more than anything else right now.Ive always thought the focus and effort suppose to raise to another level this time of the season for a team,not go south of the border.

[vinnie]

So when Ray says after last night's game that they are still building cehmistry with the new guys, doesn't that raise red flags? Doesn't that say that part of the issue here is not a big part is the trade? You don't build chemistry overnight and you don't build it in 25 games. That is the biggest problem this team faces as it enters the playoffs and it is why the odds are long that they will win the NBA championship.

[CoachBo]

Not at all. It's a fact of life that when you blow up your bench with 25 games left, some time is going to be invested - and some bumps encountered - as your team prepared.

The bench, though, is one small piece of a much larger performance issue that as the thread title correctly states, centers around the starters. The Perkins trade should not be an issue, and if it is mentally, those for whom it is an issue may very well need to be moved in the off-season.

The biggest bench issue isn't solely the Perkins trade - it's the absence of 5 depth and all the new faces. That can be ironed out with minutes - if the players involved are professional enough to allow it to be ironed out. If not, then Danny's got some more trading to do this summer.

[Megatron]

The starters are nothing without Perk or Shaq, thats pretty clear.

We cant win games with just four all-stars. We need Perk or Shaq starting in the center spot, even against terrible teams.

We just arent good enough, even with 4 all-stars.

[KobeShesNotConsenting!]

honestly, i think they're really really bored. sure, the trade hurt, but these aren't 22 year olds. these are mostly uber professionals, most of whom understand this is probably their last chance at a title, and a chance to put this team up as one of the great celtics squads. its pretty obvious they aren't playing with any urgency or focus. the trade obviously stung everyone, but i think the grind of the season has really hit us. as others have noted, we won with erden, we won with 7-8 man rotations...it's not the lack of bodies, or the chemistry (we've lost to bad teams...and its not like jeff green and kristic are bad teammates). we just need the postseason to get here as soon as possible. hopefully we can hold onto the #2 seed.

These guys are absolutely THEE most short-sighted, idiotic, cocky bunch of players if they're actually bored right now. Fatigue i can understand, but bored? As in too bored to remember what happened last year at LA in game 7? After all their heartache over losing because they didnt have homecourt, they best have a better excuse than that. I'm gonna have no sympathy this time if they suffer another game 7 loss on LA's floor. In fact, this idea that they could be suffering from 'boredom' angers me so much i'm gonna stop this post right now before i start droppin f bombs