its not the trade guys...its the starters

[cman88]

Lets be honest here, this team has won with semih erden, a 3rd string center as their starting center and beat teams like the Heat with a 7man rotation....its not the trade or the bench, Perks only been there for 12games. so this celtics team CAN win without him. and its merely an excuse to blame it on the trade

the key to all of this is the starting lineup...they arent playing like a starting lineup...they're coming into every game lackadaisical with no energy, no effort, letting the games get close, or giving up leads to poor teams. Rondo not pushing the ball and instead standing around until 5seconds are left, lack of passing..we saw against the hornets, knicks that the celtics can turn it on and give the extra effort when they want it...but sadly right now thats not a common effort..

and until the starters start giving more effort and playing to their potential, then the celtics will keep losing. 1st seed in the East is STILL at play..but its up to whether RR/RA/PP/KG still remember last year and want it bad enough...hopefully they get a wakeup call from doc

[vinnie]

The trade has completely disrupted the starters and the chemistry of the team. Has been written numerous times here, it is not necessarily the players who were traded, but the fact that it was done so late in the season and that is has completely messed with the team's psyche and chemistry.

[cman88]

The trade has completely disrupted the starters and the chemistry of the team. Has been written numerous times here, it is not necessarily the players who were traded, but the fact that it was done so late in the season and that is has completely messed with the team's psyche and chemistry.

Its an excuse that really has no basis...the celtics came out after the trade actually winning...people were creating all sorts of threads praising the trade when the celts won 6straight...we saw against the Knicks and hornets that the starters can start giving the extra effort and put teams away...but when things go bad, we just cant blame "chemistry" and not put any of it on the starters effort.

they're just coasing right now. not looking for the best shot. standing around until theres 10seconds left on the shot clock, or pierce trying to do too much...that doesnt have to do with chemistry...its lazyness

[Roy H.]

the celtics came out after the trade actually winning.

They were winning, but they weren't playing Celtics basketball.  The team looked downright bad at times during that streak, despite winning against very poor teams.

I tend to agree with both you and vinnie:  yes, it's mostly the starters playing poorly.  However, it's not like you can separate that poor play from the trade.

[BballTim]

The trade has completely disrupted the starters and the chemistry of the team. Has been written numerous times here, it is not necessarily the players who were traded, but the fact that it was done so late in the season and that is has completely messed with the team's psyche and chemistry.

  A lot of things have been written numerous times here and become accepted as fact by many and valid theory by still more even though they have no basis beyond one poster claiming it and others repeating the claim. There's a fairly strong herd mentality.

[Roy H.]

The trade has completely disrupted the starters and the chemistry of the team. Has been written numerous times here, it is not necessarily the players who were traded, but the fact that it was done so late in the season and that is has completely messed with the team's psyche and chemistry.

  A lot of things have been written numerous times here and become accepted as fact by many and valid theory by still more even though they have no basis beyond one poster claiming it and others repeating the claim. There's a fairly strong herd mentality.

KG said before last night's game that the loss of Perk has changed the team identity and has made it less physical.

Ray said after night's game that chemistry remains an issue with the new guys.

Doc in recent days has called the team soft and selfish.

In other words, I don't think it's just the fans that have noticed some changes post-trade.

[Onslaught]

The trade has completely disrupted the starters and the chemistry of the team. Has been written numerous times here, it is not necessarily the players who were traded, but the fact that it was done so late in the season and that is has completely messed with the team's psyche and chemistry.

  A lot of things have been written numerous times here and become accepted as fact by many and valid theory by still more even though they have no basis beyond one poster claiming it and others repeating the claim. There's a fairly strong herd mentality.

Not so sure. Many of us thought this could be a factor on the day of the trade. And to this point it looks like it could be right.

[housecall]

Lets be honest here, this team has won with semih erden, a 3rd string center as their starting center and beat teams like the Heat with a 7man rotation....its not the trade or the bench, Perks only been there for 12games. so this celtics team CAN win without him. and its merely an excuse to blame it on the trade

the key to all of this is the starting lineup...they arent playing like a starting lineup...they're coming into every game lackadaisical with no energy, no effort, letting the games get close, or giving up leads to poor teams. Rondo not pushing the ball and instead standing around until 5seconds are left, lack of passing..we saw against the hornets, knicks that the celtics can turn it on and give the extra effort when they want it...but sadly right now thats not a common effort..

and until the starters start giving more effort and playing to their potential, then the celtics will keep losing. 1st seed in the East is STILL at play..but its up to whether RR/RA/PP/KG still remember last year and want it bad enough...hopefully they get a wakeup call from doc

TP,i agree with most of what you're saying in your post but i want to add that in '08championship season they added PJ Brown midseason to the roster and the team didn't seem to skip a beat.They had a few games to make the adjustments and there it went.If Shaq had been available when the trade took place we probably wouldn't be having this conversation because Doc wouldn't had to use a role player in a starting role.I feel the problem is more to do with the starters at the moment and less to do with the trade.I don't feel Perks leaving have this big impact chemistry wise some want to say it is.From approx.Nov.to Feb.Perkins name was rarely mentioned,why surprising as it was the team was playing better with Shaq in the lineup than anyone expected.When the starters decide to play with more of a sense of urgency then things will turn around.There have been times ive felt this team could win with 4 on the court,thats how good they have played at times so how could a couple new additions cause them to become this disjointed.

[celticinorlando]

the trade has caused the ill feeling among the starters. even doc said it last night...

"The way we're playing shocks me," Rivers said. "Our attitude shocks me. We're just not ready to win any games right now the way we play, the way our approach is to basketball games. I told them that with about five minutes left. I said, 'If we win great, you find your own way.'

"Right now I just think we've become very, very selfish. Not as far as trying to get our own, but everything is about how we're playing individually instead of how the team is playing. You can see it, a guy struggles, he pouts, he moans. Everything is 'me, me, me' on our team right now. Feeling sorry for themselves instead of giving themselves to the team and playing."

[CoachBo]

Lets be honest here, this team has won with semih erden, a 3rd string center as their starting center and beat teams like the Heat with a 7man rotation....its not the trade or the bench, Perks only been there for 12games. so this celtics team CAN win without him. and its merely an excuse to blame it on the trade

the key to all of this is the starting lineup...they arent playing like a starting lineup...they're coming into every game lackadaisical with no energy, no effort, letting the games get close, or giving up leads to poor teams. Rondo not pushing the ball and instead standing around until 5seconds are left, lack of passing..we saw against the hornets, knicks that the celtics can turn it on and give the extra effort when they want it...but sadly right now thats not a common effort..

and until the starters start giving more effort and playing to their potential, then the celtics will keep losing. 1st seed in the East is STILL at play..but its up to whether RR/RA/PP/KG still remember last year and want it bad enough...hopefully they get a wakeup call from doc

TP,i agree with most of what you're saying in your post but i want to add that in '08championship season they added PJ Brown midseason to the roster and the team didn't seem to skip a beat.They had a few games to make the adjustments and there it went.If Shaq had been available when the trade took place we probably wouldn't be having this conversation because Doc wouldn't had to use a role player in a starting role.I feel the problem is more to do with the starters at the moment and less to do with the trade.I don't feel Perks leaving have this big impact chemistry wise some want to say it is.From approx.Nov.to Feb.Perkins name was rarely mentioned,why surprising as it was the team was playing better with Shaq in the lineup than anyone expected.When the starters decide to play with more of a sense of urgency then things will turn around.There have been times ive felt this team could win with 4 on the court,thats how good they have played at times so how could a couple new additions cause them to become this disjointed.

Good take as always, Housecall. TPs to you and cman for spot on insight.

There are a bunch of things going on with this team right now - shot selection isn't good, ball movement isn't good, motion away from the ball is spotty at best, the point guard play is as poor as it's been since the Big 3 started, I don't see any effort whatsoever on either glass ...

You can take each of the five starters and clearly idenify a significant issue - in many cases, more than one - with their game right now.

More importantly, put it together and you get the results we're getting. Personally, if the trade is the issue driving this play, then that's inexcusable and the fault falls directly on the players. These men are being paid handsomely to make this team work, and if there are players who can no longer do that because Perkins was traded, then they need to be relocated themselves.

[dtrader]

The trade has completely disrupted the starters and the chemistry of the team. Has been written numerous times here, it is not necessarily the players who were traded, but the fact that it was done so late in the season and that is has completely messed with the team's psyche and chemistry.

  A lot of things have been written numerous times here and become accepted as fact by many and valid theory by still more even though they have no basis beyond one poster claiming it and others repeating the claim. There's a fairly strong herd mentality.

KG said before last night's game that the loss of Perk has changed the team identity and has made it less physical.

Ray said after night's game that chemistry remains an issue with the new guys.

Doc in recent days has called the team soft and selfish.

In other words, I don't think it's just the fans that have noticed some changes post-trade.

These quotes all seem to be either taken out of context, or a result of leading questions

1.-Kg was specifically asked about losing Perkins physicality..he didn't bring that up himself.

2.-Kg said that the new guys and vets like each other, socialize together, and have a "unique bond" like family that's rare in the league...he was talking specifically about green+krystic.

3.-Kg said that Doc said that as a motivating tool, because he knows how to get under the teams skin.

[Casperian]

Lets be honest here, this team has won with semih erden, a 3rd string center as their starting center and beat teams like the Heat with a 7man rotation....its not the trade or the bench, Perks only been there for 12games. so this celtics team CAN win without him. and its merely an excuse to blame it on the trade

the key to all of this is the starting lineup...they arent playing like a starting lineup...they're coming into every game lackadaisical with no energy, no effort, letting the games get close, or giving up leads to poor teams. Rondo not pushing the ball and instead standing around until 5seconds are left, lack of passing..we saw against the hornets, knicks that the celtics can turn it on and give the extra effort when they want it...but sadly right now thats not a common effort..

and until the starters start giving more effort and playing to their potential, then the celtics will keep losing. 1st seed in the East is STILL at play..but its up to whether RR/RA/PP/KG still remember last year and want it bad enough...hopefully they get a wakeup call from doc

TP,i agree with most of what you're saying in your post but i want to add that in '08championship season they added PJ Brown midseason to the roster and the team didn't seem to skip a beat.They had a few games to make the adjustments and there it went.If Shaq had been available when the trade took place we probably wouldn't be having this conversation because Doc wouldn't had to use a role player in a starting role.I feel the problem is more to do with the starters at the moment and less to do with the trade.I don't feel Perks leaving have this big impact chemistry wise some want to say it is.From approx.Nov.to Feb.Perkins name was rarely mentioned,why surprising as it was the team was playing better with Shaq in the lineup than anyone expected.When the starters decide to play with more of a sense of urgency then things will turn around.There have been times ive felt this team could win with 4 on the court,thats how good they have played at times so how could a couple new additions cause them to become this disjointed.

Good take as always, Housecall. TPs to you and cman for spot on insight.

There are a bunch of things going on with this team right now - shot selection isn't good, ball movement isn't good, motion away from the ball is spotty at best, the point guard play is as poor as it's been since the Big 3 started, I don't see any effort whatsoever on either glass ...

You can take each of the five starters and clearly idenify a significant issue - in many cases, more than one - with their game right now.

More importantly, put it together and you get the results we're getting. Personally, if the trade is the issue driving this play, then that's inexcusable and the fault falls directly on the players. These men are being paid handsomely to make this team work, and if there are players who can no longer do that because Perkins was traded, then they need to be relocated themselves.

TP, couldn´t agree more. Blaming this on the trade is just an excuse. It´s the starters who get paid millions and can´t get their act together.

[csfansince60s]

Personally, if the trade is the issue driving this play, then that's inexcusable and the fault falls directly on the players. These men are being paid handsomely to make this team work, and if there are players who can no longer do that because Perkins was traded, then they need to be relocated themselves.

TP, Bo...if that's their (especially Rondo's) "excuse" for their poor play...Good Riddance

I have a hard time seeing Ray, PP or KG having the trade affect them like this. The Big 3's play, however, would be directly affected by Rondo's ineffectiveness.

If this is what it is, get over it Rondo. You're being paid like a big boy. Act like one.

[soap07]

the celtics came out after the trade actually winning.

They were winning, but they weren't playing Celtics basketball.  The team looked downright bad at times during that streak, despite winning against very poor teams.

I tend to agree with both you and vinnie:  yes, it's mostly the starters playing poorly.  However, it's not like you can separate that poor play from the trade.

I don't remember the team looking all that bad during the streak, to be honest.

[Marcus13]

The trade has completely disrupted the starters and the chemistry of the team. Has been written numerous times here, it is not necessarily the players who were traded, but the fact that it was done so late in the season and that is has completely messed with the team's psyche and chemistry.

TP.

I've never seen a team leading their conference hit the Self-Destruct button the way we did at the trade deadline this year