The trade has killed this team

[winsomme]

No but are you saying that we're better off with Krstic because he has a 100% chance of playing (which he doesn't because anyone can get hurt) and Perk does not?  I'd take the chances of Perk contributing more than Krstic any day, Danny definitely wouldn't have made that trade straight-up.

  No, what I was saying was that the claim that we traded away our starting center for a backup wing has to consider that they didn't consider Perk to be a lock or even close to a lock to hold up through the regular season and 20+ games of playoffs.

Presti looked at the same question and yet came to the conclusion that Perk would hold up.

maybe we need to ALSO criticize DAs ability to assess a player's ability to hold up....

one more problem with the thinking that went into this trade. add it to the list I guess.

[Onslaught]

I'd take a chance on a young guy who's hurt over two old guys who can't even walk.

  You're acting like Danny had a choice between trading Perk or keeping Perk and trading Shaq or JO. That wasn't the case.

No, I'm acting like Danny could have kept Perk,Shaq and JO and went for another backup for PP and Ray. He didn't need to try to knock it out of the park and trade half the team at one time.

[KevinConnor]

Interesting thought. . . . One question: What disrupted this team last year?

[BballTim]

No but are you saying that we're better off with Krstic because he has a 100% chance of playing (which he doesn't because anyone can get hurt) and Perk does not?  I'd take the chances of Perk contributing more than Krstic any day, Danny definitely wouldn't have made that trade straight-up.

  No, what I was saying was that the claim that we traded away our starting center for a backup wing has to consider that they didn't consider Perk to be a lock or even close to a lock to hold up through the regular season and 20+ games of playoffs.

Presti looked at the same question and yet came to the conclusion that Perk would hold up.

maybe we need to ALSO criticize DAs ability to assess a player's ability to hold up....

one more problem with the thinking that went into this trade. add it to the list I guess.

  Presti wanted to sign Perk to a long term contract more than what he'd get from Perk this year. And after spending much of last season ripping DA for not signing Leon Powe, who you seemed sure would be making a big contribution by the time the playoffs rolled around, maybe you should wait and see if you're right before you go after him again for that.

[BballTim]

I'd take a chance on a young guy who's hurt over two old guys who can't even walk.

  You're acting like Danny had a choice between trading Perk or keeping Perk and trading Shaq or JO. That wasn't the case.

No, I'm acting like Danny could have kept Perk,Shaq and JO and went for another backup for PP and Ray. He didn't need to try to knock it out of the park and trade half the team at one time.

  So we'd have gone most of the last month with no healthy center, Baby in and out of the lineup and no Green? Good plan.

[kozlodoev]

It wasn't just one guy. We have a whole new bench. That on paper looked good but now to me anyway isn't looking that good at all.

Actually, the new guys have looked just fine. It's the old guys that have looked god-awful, and have let a number of games slip in the 4th quarter.

[winsomme]

No but are you saying that we're better off with Krstic because he has a 100% chance of playing (which he doesn't because anyone can get hurt) and Perk does not?  I'd take the chances of Perk contributing more than Krstic any day, Danny definitely wouldn't have made that trade straight-up.

  No, what I was saying was that the claim that we traded away our starting center for a backup wing has to consider that they didn't consider Perk to be a lock or even close to a lock to hold up through the regular season and 20+ games of playoffs.

Presti looked at the same question and yet came to the conclusion that Perk would hold up.

maybe we need to ALSO criticize DAs ability to assess a player's ability to hold up....

one more problem with the thinking that went into this trade. add it to the list I guess.

  Presti wanted to sign Perk to a long term contract more than what he'd get from Perk this year. And after spending much of last season ripping DA for not signing Leon Powe, who you seemed sure would be making a big contribution by the time the playoffs rolled around, maybe you should wait and see if you're right before you go after him again for that.

well I wouldn't have minded having Leon for game 7 that's for sure...also wouldn't mind having him right now. not sure Leon makes your point, Bball.

as for OKC, tell them they're not playing for this year because I don't think they got the memo.

[BballTim]

No but are you saying that we're better off with Krstic because he has a 100% chance of playing (which he doesn't because anyone can get hurt) and Perk does not?  I'd take the chances of Perk contributing more than Krstic any day, Danny definitely wouldn't have made that trade straight-up.

  No, what I was saying was that the claim that we traded away our starting center for a backup wing has to consider that they didn't consider Perk to be a lock or even close to a lock to hold up through the regular season and 20+ games of playoffs.

Presti looked at the same question and yet came to the conclusion that Perk would hold up.

maybe we need to ALSO criticize DAs ability to assess a player's ability to hold up....

one more problem with the thinking that went into this trade. add it to the list I guess.

  Presti wanted to sign Perk to a long term contract more than what he'd get from Perk this year. And after spending much of last season ripping DA for not signing Leon Powe, who you seemed sure would be making a big contribution by the time the playoffs rolled around, maybe you should wait and see if you're right before you go after him again for that.

well I wouldn't have minded having Leon for game 7 that's for sure...also wouldn't mind having him right now. not sure Leon makes your point, Bball.

as for OKC, tell them they're not playing for this year because I don't think they got the memo.

  Ok, you win. OKC had no interest in Perk for the future, they only made the trade with this year in mind. And Leon was quite a force in the playoffs last year, wasn't he?

[winsomme]

No but are you saying that we're better off with Krstic because he has a 100% chance of playing (which he doesn't because anyone can get hurt) and Perk does not?  I'd take the chances of Perk contributing more than Krstic any day, Danny definitely wouldn't have made that trade straight-up.

  No, what I was saying was that the claim that we traded away our starting center for a backup wing has to consider that they didn't consider Perk to be a lock or even close to a lock to hold up through the regular season and 20+ games of playoffs.

Presti looked at the same question and yet came to the conclusion that Perk would hold up.

maybe we need to ALSO criticize DAs ability to assess a player's ability to hold up....

one more problem with the thinking that went into this trade. add it to the list I guess.

  Presti wanted to sign Perk to a long term contract more than what he'd get from Perk this year. And after spending much of last season ripping DA for not signing Leon Powe, who you seemed sure would be making a big contribution by the time the playoffs rolled around, maybe you should wait and see if you're right before you go after him again for that.

well I wouldn't have minded having Leon for game 7 that's for sure...also wouldn't mind having him right now. not sure Leon makes your point, Bball.

as for OKC, tell them they're not playing for this year because I don't think they got the memo.

  Ok, you win. OKC had no interest in Perk for the future, they only made the trade with this year in mind. And Leon was quite a force in the playoffs last year, wasn't he?

Leon didn't need to be a force, Bball. He signed for next to nothing. That was the point with him. Why let him walk for so little...The fact that we could have, I don't know, won another Title if we had another bench guy who could rebound and defend the paint only accentuates the point...

as for OKC, I think you know the strawman element of your comment. I never said they didn't want Perk for the future. I responded to your point that they weren't thinking about this season in trading for him. Clearly this season is part of the plan for Perk. They traded two starters to get him...and they are one of the hottest teams in the league.

[BballTim]

No but are you saying that we're better off with Krstic because he has a 100% chance of playing (which he doesn't because anyone can get hurt) and Perk does not?  I'd take the chances of Perk contributing more than Krstic any day, Danny definitely wouldn't have made that trade straight-up.

  No, what I was saying was that the claim that we traded away our starting center for a backup wing has to consider that they didn't consider Perk to be a lock or even close to a lock to hold up through the regular season and 20+ games of playoffs.

Presti looked at the same question and yet came to the conclusion that Perk would hold up.

maybe we need to ALSO criticize DAs ability to assess a player's ability to hold up....

one more problem with the thinking that went into this trade. add it to the list I guess.

  Presti wanted to sign Perk to a long term contract more than what he'd get from Perk this year. And after spending much of last season ripping DA for not signing Leon Powe, who you seemed sure would be making a big contribution by the time the playoffs rolled around, maybe you should wait and see if you're right before you go after him again for that.

well I wouldn't have minded having Leon for game 7 that's for sure...also wouldn't mind having him right now. not sure Leon makes your point, Bball.

as for OKC, tell them they're not playing for this year because I don't think they got the memo.

  Ok, you win. OKC had no interest in Perk for the future, they only made the trade with this year in mind. And Leon was quite a force in the playoffs last year, wasn't he?

Leon didn't need to be a force, Bball. He signed for next to nothing. That was the point with him. Why let him walk for so little...The fact that we could have, I don't know, won another Title if we had another bench guy who could rebound and defend the paint only accentuates the point...

as for OKC, I think you know the strawman element of your comment. I never said they didn't want Perk for the future. I responded to your point that they weren't thinking about this season in trading for him. Clearly this season is part of the plan for Perk. They traded two starters to get him...and they are one of the hottest teams in the league.

  Ok, so you call my argument a strawman and proceed with one of your own?

[winsomme]

No but are you saying that we're better off with Krstic because he has a 100% chance of playing (which he doesn't because anyone can get hurt) and Perk does not?  I'd take the chances of Perk contributing more than Krstic any day, Danny definitely wouldn't have made that trade straight-up.

  No, what I was saying was that the claim that we traded away our starting center for a backup wing has to consider that they didn't consider Perk to be a lock or even close to a lock to hold up through the regular season and 20+ games of playoffs.

Presti looked at the same question and yet came to the conclusion that Perk would hold up.

maybe we need to ALSO criticize DAs ability to assess a player's ability to hold up....

one more problem with the thinking that went into this trade. add it to the list I guess.

  Presti wanted to sign Perk to a long term contract more than what he'd get from Perk this year. And after spending much of last season ripping DA for not signing Leon Powe, who you seemed sure would be making a big contribution by the time the playoffs rolled around, maybe you should wait and see if you're right before you go after him again for that.

well I wouldn't have minded having Leon for game 7 that's for sure...also wouldn't mind having him right now. not sure Leon makes your point, Bball.

as for OKC, tell them they're not playing for this year because I don't think they got the memo.

  Ok, you win. OKC had no interest in Perk for the future, they only made the trade with this year in mind. And Leon was quite a force in the playoffs last year, wasn't he?

Leon didn't need to be a force, Bball. He signed for next to nothing. That was the point with him. Why let him walk for so little...The fact that we could have, I don't know, won another Title if we had another bench guy who could rebound and defend the paint only accentuates the point...

as for OKC, I think you know the strawman element of your comment. I never said they didn't want Perk for the future. I responded to your point that they weren't thinking about this season in trading for him. Clearly this season is part of the plan for Perk. They traded two starters to get him...and they are one of the hottest teams in the league.

  Ok, so you call my argument a strawman and proceed with one of your own?

So then you agree that they were expecting Perk to be their center this season as part of the plan in trading for him?

[BballTim]

No but are you saying that we're better off with Krstic because he has a 100% chance of playing (which he doesn't because anyone can get hurt) and Perk does not?  I'd take the chances of Perk contributing more than Krstic any day, Danny definitely wouldn't have made that trade straight-up.

  No, what I was saying was that the claim that we traded away our starting center for a backup wing has to consider that they didn't consider Perk to be a lock or even close to a lock to hold up through the regular season and 20+ games of playoffs.

Presti looked at the same question and yet came to the conclusion that Perk would hold up.

maybe we need to ALSO criticize DAs ability to assess a player's ability to hold up....

one more problem with the thinking that went into this trade. add it to the list I guess.

  Presti wanted to sign Perk to a long term contract more than what he'd get from Perk this year. And after spending much of last season ripping DA for not signing Leon Powe, who you seemed sure would be making a big contribution by the time the playoffs rolled around, maybe you should wait and see if you're right before you go after him again for that.

well I wouldn't have minded having Leon for game 7 that's for sure...also wouldn't mind having him right now. not sure Leon makes your point, Bball.

as for OKC, tell them they're not playing for this year because I don't think they got the memo.

  Ok, you win. OKC had no interest in Perk for the future, they only made the trade with this year in mind. And Leon was quite a force in the playoffs last year, wasn't he?

Leon didn't need to be a force, Bball. He signed for next to nothing. That was the point with him. Why let him walk for so little...The fact that we could have, I don't know, won another Title if we had another bench guy who could rebound and defend the paint only accentuates the point...

as for OKC, I think you know the strawman element of your comment. I never said they didn't want Perk for the future. I responded to your point that they weren't thinking about this season in trading for him. Clearly this season is part of the plan for Perk. They traded two starters to get him...and they are one of the hottest teams in the league.

  Ok, so you call my argument a strawman and proceed with one of your own?

So then you agree that they were expecting Perk to be their center this season as part of the plan in trading for him?

 I don't know. I'm sure that they hoped he'd help, but I'd say they made the trade to get him on the roster long term and they'd still have likely made the trade if they weren't sure that he'd play any meaningful minutes in the playoffs this year.

[winsomme]

No but are you saying that we're better off with Krstic because he has a 100% chance of playing (which he doesn't because anyone can get hurt) and Perk does not?  I'd take the chances of Perk contributing more than Krstic any day, Danny definitely wouldn't have made that trade straight-up.

  No, what I was saying was that the claim that we traded away our starting center for a backup wing has to consider that they didn't consider Perk to be a lock or even close to a lock to hold up through the regular season and 20+ games of playoffs.

Presti looked at the same question and yet came to the conclusion that Perk would hold up.

maybe we need to ALSO criticize DAs ability to assess a player's ability to hold up....

one more problem with the thinking that went into this trade. add it to the list I guess.

  Presti wanted to sign Perk to a long term contract more than what he'd get from Perk this year. And after spending much of last season ripping DA for not signing Leon Powe, who you seemed sure would be making a big contribution by the time the playoffs rolled around, maybe you should wait and see if you're right before you go after him again for that.

well I wouldn't have minded having Leon for game 7 that's for sure...also wouldn't mind having him right now. not sure Leon makes your point, Bball.

as for OKC, tell them they're not playing for this year because I don't think they got the memo.

  Ok, you win. OKC had no interest in Perk for the future, they only made the trade with this year in mind. And Leon was quite a force in the playoffs last year, wasn't he?

Leon didn't need to be a force, Bball. He signed for next to nothing. That was the point with him. Why let him walk for so little...The fact that we could have, I don't know, won another Title if we had another bench guy who could rebound and defend the paint only accentuates the point...

as for OKC, I think you know the strawman element of your comment. I never said they didn't want Perk for the future. I responded to your point that they weren't thinking about this season in trading for him. Clearly this season is part of the plan for Perk. They traded two starters to get him...and they are one of the hottest teams in the league.

  Ok, so you call my argument a strawman and proceed with one of your own?

So then you agree that they were expecting Perk to be their center this season as part of the plan in trading for him?

 I don't know. I'm sure that they hoped he'd help, but I'd say they made the trade to get him on the roster long term and they'd still have likely made the trade if they weren't sure that he'd play any meaningful minutes in the playoffs this year.

honestly, that's absurd. They are a major player in the WC and they traded two starters to get him.

are you even watching OKC play? This trade made them an instant contender for a Title.

plus, what then is the strawman aspect of my previous post?

[BballTim]

 I don't know. I'm sure that they hoped he'd help, but I'd say they made the trade to get him on the roster long term and they'd still have likely made the trade if they weren't sure that he'd play any meaningful minutes in the playoffs this year.

honestly, that's absurd. They are a major player in the WC and they traded two starters to get him.

are you even watching OKC play? This trade made them an instant contender.

  Are you watching them play? They've won 7 of 8 with Perk, but they'd won 6 of 7 before he started playing. And "absurd" doesn't mean "doesn't fit my argument". Did Presti say that they were more interested in having Perk this year than in the future? Did he say that he wouldn't have made the trade if he wasn't sure that Perk would be a big contributor this year?

[get_banners]

Actually, the new guys have looked just fine. It's the old guys that have looked god-awful, and have let a number of games slip in the 4th quarter.

just thinking about the games i've watched, this is a pretty accurate statement. the starters have been the issue much more than the new guys. they've been unfocused, off with their shooting, and made bad decisions (turned into a jump shot shooting crew when their jumpers are all off). one argument is that they're all still devastated by the trade and are letting it affect their play. of course, if that's true, they also happen to be a bunch of 22 year old babies, which i think is untrue. i think the answer is they're bored and they're having a hard time getting up for games. that, and rondo isn't 100%. and we're not utilizing the best player in the trade, jeff green, properly (a few more minutes, and a lot more touches would help).