Author Topic: The trade has killed this team  (Read 62048 times)

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Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #135 on: March 26, 2011, 10:48:54 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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Here are some of KG's thoughts:

Quote
"What people fail to realize is Perk was one of the parts of our team that made us really, really good. Made us tough," Garnett said. "We had built that chemistry and rapport with him. With Perk we had a style of play that worked for us. We're playing without the Big Fella and we're playing without JO. To say we're not playing with the same physical presence, you're right. We don't. Because Perk was a real physical presence. . . . Yes, losing Perk did cost us some physicality but we have enough physical presence on this team that I think we can endure."

Notice you don't see the name "Nenad Krstic" in there.  Hopefully when KG says the exact same thing that fans are talking about he won't be disregarded as a chicken little.

So we disregard the line "were missing the big fella and jo"? And the fact he said "we have enough physical presence..."?

Doesn't sound "chicken little" to me.
Back to wanting Joe fired.

Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #136 on: March 26, 2011, 10:50:01 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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And here is another guy who might know a little bit about chemistry -- Ray Allen -- and what he said after last night's game. “It’s not about making excuses,” Allen said, “but I think the chemistry with the new guys is still being built.”

11 games left in the season and they are still bulding the chemistry. Don’t think that is going to happen. Honestly, if guys are talking about chemistry problems with this few games left before the playoffs, it is a pretty big stretch to think that they are going to be tip top and ready to go when they start.


exactly. People thinking they are just going to flip the switch come playoff time are wrong...because this team has played pretty much all season without west, murphy, green, JO, Shaq, Krstic...i mean they really only have played consistently with 5 guys. Just too much to ask in this short of a time period. This combined with the tougher teams in the east...makes me think we missed a great chance  

Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #137 on: March 26, 2011, 10:52:27 AM »

Offline dtrader

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Here are some of KG's thoughts:

Quote
"What people fail to realize is Perk was one of the parts of our team that made us really, really good. Made us tough," Garnett said. "We had built that chemistry and rapport with him. With Perk we had a style of play that worked for us. We're playing without the Big Fella and we're playing without JO. To say we're not playing with the same physical presence, you're right. We don't. Because Perk was a real physical presence. . . . Yes, losing Perk did cost us some physicality but we have enough physical presence on this team that I think we can endure."

Notice you don't see the name "Nenad Krstic" in there.  Hopefully when KG says the exact same thing that fans are talking about he won't be disregarded as a chicken little.

Why would he say Nenads (or any other active players) name  there? He only mentions the names of players that are missing from the lineup right now, to point out pieces they lack to have the physical presence of before.  As far as the active players, he only uses "we" to address them, and he uses it to say that what they currently have should be enough.  Using that quote to indicate that KG feels they've been playing worse due to Perks absence above the absence of JO or Shaq, is twisting his words (especially when the question posed to him was most likely directly related to Perkins). 

Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #138 on: March 26, 2011, 10:52:31 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Here are some of KG's thoughts:

Quote
"What people fail to realize is Perk was one of the parts of our team that made us really, really good. Made us tough," Garnett said. "We had built that chemistry and rapport with him. With Perk we had a style of play that worked for us. We're playing without the Big Fella and we're playing without JO. To say we're not playing with the same physical presence, you're right. We don't. Because Perk was a real physical presence. . . . Yes, losing Perk did cost us some physicality but we have enough physical presence on this team that I think we can endure."

Notice you don't see the name "Nenad Krstic" in there.  Hopefully when KG says the exact same thing that fans are talking about he won't be disregarded as a chicken little.

So we disregard the line "were missing the big fella and jo"? And the fact he said "we have enough physical presence..."?

Doesn't sound "chicken little" to me.

First, since Shaq is still in a boot and getting cortisone shots, I'm not convinced that he's going to be a huge difference maker. 

More importantly, though, how can you disregard what KG said about Perk's presence?


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Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #139 on: March 26, 2011, 10:54:38 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Here are some of KG's thoughts:

Quote
"What people fail to realize is Perk was one of the parts of our team that made us really, really good. Made us tough," Garnett said. "We had built that chemistry and rapport with him. With Perk we had a style of play that worked for us. We're playing without the Big Fella and we're playing without JO. To say we're not playing with the same physical presence, you're right. We don't. Because Perk was a real physical presence. . . . Yes, losing Perk did cost us some physicality but we have enough physical presence on this team that I think we can endure."

Notice you don't see the name "Nenad Krstic" in there.  Hopefully when KG says the exact same thing that fans are talking about he won't be disregarded as a chicken little.

Why would he say Nenads (or any other active players) name  there? He only mentions the names of players that are missing from the lineup right now, to point out pieces they lack to have the physical presence of before.  As far as the active players, he only uses "we" to address them, and he uses it to say that what they currently have should be enough.  Using that quote to indicate that KG feels they've been playing worse due to Perks absence above the absence of JO or Shaq, is twisting his words (especially when the question posed to him was most likely directly related to Perkins). 


Twisting his words?  He came out and said that the team misses Perk, because he made the team good, tough, and physical.  He further cites JO and Shaq as guys who can help out in that regard, while conspicuously failing to mention Krstic?  Why?  Probably because Krstic doesn't make this team good, tough, or physical.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

KP / Giannis / Turkuglu / Jrue / Curry
Sabonis / Brand / A. Thompson / Oladipo / Brunson
Jordan / Bowen

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Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #140 on: March 26, 2011, 10:55:22 AM »

Offline vinnie

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Here are some of KG's thoughts:

Quote
"What people fail to realize is Perk was one of the parts of our team that made us really, really good. Made us tough," Garnett said. "We had built that chemistry and rapport with him. With Perk we had a style of play that worked for us. We're playing without the Big Fella and we're playing without JO. To say we're not playing with the same physical presence, you're right. We don't. Because Perk was a real physical presence. . . . Yes, losing Perk did cost us some physicality but we have enough physical presence on this team that I think we can endure."

Notice you don't see the name "Nenad Krstic" in there.  Hopefully when KG says the exact same thing that fans are talking about he won't be disregarded as a chicken little.

So we disregard the line "were missing the big fella and jo"? And the fact he said "we have enough physical presence..."?

Doesn't sound "chicken little" to me.

First, since Shaq is still in a boot and getting cortisone shots, I'm not convinced that he's going to be a huge difference maker. 

More importantly, though, how can you disregard what KG said about Perk's presence?

The same way they will ignore what Ray said after last night's game - that they are still building the chemistry with the new guys. Denial, Roy, denial.

Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #141 on: March 26, 2011, 10:56:40 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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Here are some of KG's thoughts:

Quote
"What people fail to realize is Perk was one of the parts of our team that made us really, really good. Made us tough," Garnett said. "We had built that chemistry and rapport with him. With Perk we had a style of play that worked for us. We're playing without the Big Fella and we're playing without JO. To say we're not playing with the same physical presence, you're right. We don't. Because Perk was a real physical presence. . . . Yes, losing Perk did cost us some physicality but we have enough physical presence on this team that I think we can endure."

Notice you don't see the name "Nenad Krstic" in there.  Hopefully when KG says the exact same thing that fans are talking about he won't be disregarded as a chicken little.

So we disregard the line "were missing the big fella and jo"? And the fact he said "we have enough physical presence..."?

Doesn't sound "chicken little" to me.

First, since Shaq is still in a boot and getting cortisone shots, I'm not convinced that he's going to be a huge difference maker. 

More importantly, though, how can you disregard what KG said about Perk's presence?

Roy you nailed it. I think at the time when the trade was made...they felt Shaq would be back. I honestly don't think we will see Shaq much at all this season. I am getting the feeling that Danny sacrificed banner 18 to save money next season. If all the Cs need was a SF to give PP some minutes..then make the deal with the cavs and kings..open up 3 roster spots and still sign 3 guys...

Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #142 on: March 26, 2011, 11:16:18 AM »

Offline dtrader

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Here are some of KG's thoughts:

Quote
"What people fail to realize is Perk was one of the parts of our team that made us really, really good. Made us tough," Garnett said. "We had built that chemistry and rapport with him. With Perk we had a style of play that worked for us. We're playing without the Big Fella and we're playing without JO. To say we're not playing with the same physical presence, you're right. We don't. Because Perk was a real physical presence. . . . Yes, losing Perk did cost us some physicality but we have enough physical presence on this team that I think we can endure."

Notice you don't see the name "Nenad Krstic" in there.  Hopefully when KG says the exact same thing that fans are talking about he won't be disregarded as a chicken little.

Why would he say Nenads (or any other active players) name  there? He only mentions the names of players that are missing from the lineup right now, to point out pieces they lack to have the physical presence of before.  As far as the active players, he only uses "we" to address them, and he uses it to say that what they currently have should be enough.  Using that quote to indicate that KG feels they've been playing worse due to Perks absence above the absence of JO or Shaq, is twisting his words (especially when the question posed to him was most likely directly related to Perkins).  


Twisting his words?  He came out and said that the team misses Perk, because he made the team good, tough, and physical.  He further cites JO and Shaq as guys who can help out in that regard, while conspicuously failing to mention Krstic?  Why?  Probably because Krstic doesn't make this team good, tough, or physical.

As I said, he doesn't mention ANY active players.  Addressing the players on the team now, he only uses "we", and he says that who they have should be enough. Look...It's common for people to end statements with a point that essentially summarizes their opinion. He ends his, by saying.. "Yes, losing Perk did cost us some physicality but we have enough physical presence on this team". To paraphrase...losing Perk cost them some toughness, but the team they have now still has enough to win.

 Also, what question was he asked?  If he was asked a question that directly mentioned Perk, then it's obvious that his response would focus on that player.  Also, if that is the case, and the question didn't directly mention JO or shaq, then his mention of them could be seen as an indication that he's NOT trying to focus on the absence of Perkins, and that he's trying to specifically bring up other pieces that he sees as main factors to the issue.  If you're going to try to take a quote, and glean a players personal opinion from it, then context becomes quite important.

As for the uptick in OKCs defense, I hardly think it's a fair comparison to put the average of the 6 or so games Perkins played, against a rating the team earned over the 60 or so previous games. The sample sizes are completely incomparable.  Another factor in that, would have to be the way Ibaka has been playing recently. In the same span since Perks been in OKC, Ibakas has an 8 blk game, a 5blk/13rb game, a 4blk/13 rb game, a 3blk/2stl/12 rb game, etc....all well above his average. That and the overall weakness of their recent schedule, could be more than enough to explain their recent defensive success...and could have absolutely nothing to do with Perk.

Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #143 on: March 26, 2011, 11:19:25 AM »

Offline Vermont Green

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First, since Shaq is still in a boot and getting cortisone shots, I'm not convinced that he's going to be a huge difference maker. 

More importantly, though, how can you disregard what KG said about Perk's presence?
I believe that DA made the trade thinking that Krstic was a replacement for Erden and that Shaq would be the "replacement" for Perk (as he was for the first 40 games or so where we played at something like a 65 win pace).  If DA was wrong about Shaq's health, then he will deserve the critism he will get about trading Perk.

In terms of KG's comments, it is hard to really take them too much to heart when we were 34-9 without Perk.  We managed to have chemistry and a physical presence then so how could it be that now we can't "play tough" without Perk?  KG is saying what he feels but he is a player and an emotional one at that, not a coach or GM.  I am not sure "disregard" is the right word, but I am certainly not accepting KG's comments as gospel.

Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #144 on: March 26, 2011, 11:26:42 AM »

Offline Onslaught

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First, since Shaq is still in a boot and getting cortisone shots, I'm not convinced that he's going to be a huge difference maker. 

More importantly, though, how can you disregard what KG said about Perk's presence?

In terms of KG's comments, it is hard to really take them too much to heart when we were 34-9 without Perk.  We managed to have chemistry and a physical presence then so how could it be that now we can't "play tough" without Perk?  KG is saying what he feels but he is a player and an emotional one at that, not a coach or GM.  I am not sure "disregard" is the right word, but I am certainly not accepting KG's comments as gospel.
I won't accept his word as gospel. But I'll take what he says to heart. He's the one out there playing. He's the heart of our defensive side. I don't know who I can trust more then him when it comes to the physical presence of the Celtics.
Peace through Tyranny

Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #145 on: March 26, 2011, 11:26:51 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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In terms of KG's comments, it is hard to really take them too much to heart when we were 34-9 without Perk.  We managed to have chemistry and a physical presence then so how could it be that now we can't "play tough" without Perk?  KG is saying what he feels but he is a player and an emotional one at that, not a coach or GM.  I am not sure "disregard" is the right word, but I am certainly not accepting KG's comments as gospel.

First, does it matter if the fans believe KG's words, if KG believes them?  He's the one on the court, and if he feels the team is less physical, and that Perk's presence is missed, shouldn't his actual feelings mean more than the theoretical arguments of fans (or even the arguments of Danny)?

Second, it's important to remember that Perk might not have been playing games, but he was still on the team.  He was working hard, he was leading by example, he was cheering on the guys at practice.  The team was keeping his spot warm for him; he might have not been playing on the court, but he was there psychologically.  Trading him was unquestionably an emotional hit, and sometimes those emotions translate negatively on the court.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

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Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #146 on: March 26, 2011, 11:30:52 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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Here are some of KG's thoughts:

Quote
"What people fail to realize is Perk was one of the parts of our team that made us really, really good. Made us tough," Garnett said. "We had built that chemistry and rapport with him. With Perk we had a style of play that worked for us. We're playing without the Big Fella and we're playing without JO. To say we're not playing with the same physical presence, you're right. We don't. Because Perk was a real physical presence. . . . Yes, losing Perk did cost us some physicality but we have enough physical presence on this team that I think we can endure."

Notice you don't see the name "Nenad Krstic" in there.  Hopefully when KG says the exact same thing that fans are talking about he won't be disregarded as a chicken little.

So we disregard the line "were missing the big fella and jo"? And the fact he said "we have enough physical presence..."?

Doesn't sound "chicken little" to me.

First, since Shaq is still in a boot and getting cortisone shots, I'm not convinced that he's going to be a huge difference maker. 

More importantly, though, how can you disregard what KG said about Perk's presence?

KG's quote was political in nature. He says something nice about the former teammate while saying we'll be fine w/o him.
Back to wanting Joe fired.

Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #147 on: March 26, 2011, 11:33:20 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Here are some of KG's thoughts:

Quote
"What people fail to realize is Perk was one of the parts of our team that made us really, really good. Made us tough," Garnett said. "We had built that chemistry and rapport with him. With Perk we had a style of play that worked for us. We're playing without the Big Fella and we're playing without JO. To say we're not playing with the same physical presence, you're right. We don't. Because Perk was a real physical presence. . . . Yes, losing Perk did cost us some physicality but we have enough physical presence on this team that I think we can endure."

Notice you don't see the name "Nenad Krstic" in there.  Hopefully when KG says the exact same thing that fans are talking about he won't be disregarded as a chicken little.

So we disregard the line "were missing the big fella and jo"? And the fact he said "we have enough physical presence..."?

Doesn't sound "chicken little" to me.

First, since Shaq is still in a boot and getting cortisone shots, I'm not convinced that he's going to be a huge difference maker. 

More importantly, though, how can you disregard what KG said about Perk's presence?

KG's quote was political in nature. He says something nice about the former teammate while saying we'll be fine w/o him.

So when he talks about how people "fail to realize" the impact Perk had, he's just being nice and thinks the team is just as good without him?  That's not how I'd read it.   


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

KP / Giannis / Turkuglu / Jrue / Curry
Sabonis / Brand / A. Thompson / Oladipo / Brunson
Jordan / Bowen

Redshirt:  Cooper Flagg

Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #148 on: March 26, 2011, 11:35:08 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Here are some of KG's thoughts:

Quote
"What people fail to realize is Perk was one of the parts of our team that made us really, really good. Made us tough," Garnett said. "We had built that chemistry and rapport with him. With Perk we had a style of play that worked for us. We're playing without the Big Fella and we're playing without JO. To say we're not playing with the same physical presence, you're right. We don't. Because Perk was a real physical presence. . . . Yes, losing Perk did cost us some physicality but we have enough physical presence on this team that I think we can endure."

Notice you don't see the name "Nenad Krstic" in there.  Hopefully when KG says the exact same thing that fans are talking about he won't be disregarded as a chicken little.

So we disregard the line "were missing the big fella and jo"? And the fact he said "we have enough physical presence..."?

Doesn't sound "chicken little" to me.

First, since Shaq is still in a boot and getting cortisone shots, I'm not convinced that he's going to be a huge difference maker. 

More importantly, though, how can you disregard what KG said about Perk's presence?

KG's quote was political in nature. He says something nice about the former teammate while saying we'll be fine w/o him.

So when he talks about how people "fail to realize" the impact Perk had, he's just being nice and thinks the team is just as good without him?  That's not how I'd read it.   

  Roy, where were those quotes from? Haven't dome much "surfing" yet...

Re: The trade has killed this team
« Reply #149 on: March 26, 2011, 11:40:40 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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  Roy, where were those quotes from? Haven't dome much "surfing" yet...


Link.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER... AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!

KP / Giannis / Turkuglu / Jrue / Curry
Sabonis / Brand / A. Thompson / Oladipo / Brunson
Jordan / Bowen

Redshirt:  Cooper Flagg