The trade has killed this team

[Onslaught]

Look i'm not trying to be a homer when I say this... the Celtics were 29-7 in games with Shaq this season... 13-1 in games where he played at least 22 minutes.  I know this sounds completely foolish, but Jermaine O'Neal is the 2nd best center on this team behind Shaq (he's better than Krstic) and he's been out too.  I have stood by the idea that these elderly players were being "saved" for the post-season.  I have no reason to think otherwise.  If we are within the last 10 games of the regular season and we still haven't started incorporating those guys I'll start to get worried.  Until then, I can't help but feel everything is still on schedule.  

Not going to deny stuff looks bad right now, but I have also stood by the belief that it was going to take a month for us to incorporate 5 new players into our system.  Again... we are within that timeframe.

Not much more positive I can say... but if you want a pick-me-up, you can always laugh at the Knicks:  The Nuggets are 11-4 since that trade while the Knicks are 7-10.  Not only did they give up Gallo, Felton and Chandler to get Melo, but now Anthony Randolph (Who they gave up for NOTHING) is starting in place of Kevin Love and just put up this in back-to-back games: Game 1: 31 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 1 block 70% shooting... Game 2: 24 points, 15 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks, 1 steal 57% shooting.... Knicks have lost 4 in a row and have fallen under .500.      

I dunno... made me feel better.     Thank the heavens you aren't a Knicks fan.

If you really think Shaq is being saved, why did he get a cortisone shot on Tuesday and why is he still wearing a boot? This is two months after he originally went down with his injury.

He's fine.  Danny wouldn't have made the trade if he didn't think Shaq would be back.  You people act like the architect of our 2008 title is a nutbag. 

I like Danny.

I love the Celtics.

All that said, he's NOT FINE. He's had a boot on his foot AFTER the trade and a shot just the other day. He's not played in a very long time either.

IF and this is a big IF he comes back then it will help. But it won't make everything great again. It won't be the magic that makes us the top dog again. One old man can't do all that.

[Megatron]

The fact that this team is so old and washed up that we need Shaq to beat a terrible bobcats team is laughable to me.

[Redz]

The Thunder are 5-1 in games Perk has played in for them.  Pretty miraculous considering how much of a slouch he is on offense and how much money they're paying him.

Celts were 5-0 first 5 games after the trade.

So I guess the Thunder will start losing to the worst teams in the league at home pretty soon.

Who knows...Just saying a small sample doesn't show much (as the Celts have proven)

[Redz]

Forgive me for not understanding how the trade "Killed our team". It was either we make the trade, or we go into the post season with no backup SF for Pierce. Remember that most of the players we traded away are not finishing the season due to injuries (Semi, Daniels), and the starter we traded away is still coming back from a knee injury that was hampering the only strong point of his game: Defense.

We're not seeing this team at full-throttle yet...before making a final assessment of everything, I will wait and see how Shaq and Jermaine impact the team over the next couple of weeks.

you obviously have zero understanding of what chemistry and togetherness does in team sports - you are missing the point entirely.

No YOU are missing the point. What the hell is chemistry if the entire team is injured??? Celtics had to make this trade

There were other trades that could have been made, but Danny wanted to show us he is a genius.

exactly.

Didn't the chemistry seem pretty awful last year when they finished 27-27?  And were losing to bad teams on a regular basis?

[Drucci]

The trade killed this team like Rasheed killed the chemistry last year, remember? Oh wait...

[incoherent]

It's the time of year, not the trade.

[vinnie]

I admire those that believe the Celtics can easily repeat what happened last year and get into the finals again -- and myabe this time even win. And, I believe that they definitely know how to win in the playoffs. However, Doc has said it several times -- This is not like last year. This is totally different. And they are going to be depending on two guys who between them have played a little more than half a season this year. Shaq and JO will help, but if Shaq can't move on the court or is limited, he will be pretty much useless, as he was toward the end of his playing time earlier this season.

On another note, I know memories are short, but I do not remember the frustation/anger from Doc last year and I don't remember the feeling of tension that I seem to sense around Doc and the players right now.

[Roy H.]

I'd feel a lot more comfortable calling the people who blame the trade reactionaries and chicken littles if this exact same result hadn't been predicted immediately following the trade.

Decreased chemistry?  Check.

The team losing games it should win?  Check.

Difficulty integrating the new guys?  Check.

Lack of interior defense?  Check.

Unfortunately, we've enjoyed the further joys of a worse Rajon Rondo than anybody could predict, and a broken offense.  However, for anybody to argue that this reaction is people looking for a scapegoat is simply false; it was predicted at the time.

[angryguy77]

This thread is by far worse than any of the laker threads at SS&R during their slump.

So was danny supposed to sprinkle water on some magic beans and hope they grow into a SF backup? The trade had to happen, you generally(unless your LA) have to give up something to get something.
Also remember that Doc didn't practice the starters for a long time(or limited them) in favor of getting the second unit involved. It was right about that time, if memory serves, that we started this slump. Work out the kinks and we'll be fine.

Can anyone tell me with a straight face that DA would have made the trade if he didn't know(not think) Shaq and JO would be back?
If he did that would make him one of the most crazy GM's in any sport. I have a hard time believing that a guy who turned this team around in one summer is dumb enough to make such amateur mistakes.

 

[nba is the worst]

I'd feel a lot more comfortable calling the people who blame the trade reactionaries and chicken littles if this exact same result hadn't been predicted immediately following the trade.

Decreased chemistry?  Check.

The team losing games it should win?  Check.

Difficulty integrating the new guys?  Check.

Lack of interior defense?  Check.

Unfortunately, we've enjoyed the further joys of a worse Rajon Rondo than anybody could predict, and a broken offense.  However, for anybody to argue that this reaction is people looking for a scapegoat is simply false; it was predicted at the time.

It's hard for me to understand that it's the predicted struggles that matter.

I don't think anyone "predicted" home losses to the Clips and Bcats, or Rondo shooting below 30% from the floor...

[Roy H.]

So was danny supposed to sprinkle water on some magic beans and hope they grow into a SF backup?
 

I'm pretty sure there are other backup small forwards in the NBA than Jeff Green, though.  Anthony Parker was reportedly ours for the taking.  There's been some suggestion that we could have gotten Battier for little more than Nate, maybe Semih, roster filler and draft picks (in a three way with Golden State and Houston).

Danny went for the highest risk, highest reward move.  However, to argue that this trade had to be done is nothing but a fan-created fiction.

[Roy H.]

I'd feel a lot more comfortable calling the people who blame the trade reactionaries and chicken littles if this exact same result hadn't been predicted immediately following the trade.

Decreased chemistry?  Check.

The team losing games it should win?  Check.

Difficulty integrating the new guys?  Check.

Lack of interior defense?  Check.

Unfortunately, we've enjoyed the further joys of a worse Rajon Rondo than anybody could predict, and a broken offense.  However, for anybody to argue that this reaction is people looking for a scapegoat is simply false; it was predicted at the time.

It's hard for me to understand that it's the predicted struggles that matter.

I don't think anyone "predicted" home losses to the Clips and Bcats, or Rondo shooting below 30% from the floor...

People predicted that we'd struggle to win games, and that we'd eventually fall to the third seed in the East.  That one hasn't come true yet, but right now it looks inevitable.  Let's hope the team reverses course there.

I mean, no, nobody looked in a crystal ball and said "on March 25, we'll blow a game to the Bobcats that we easily had in hand".  They did predict that this trade would change our chemistry, would lead to more losses, and would change the identity of this team.  I don't see how those things are strong factors in favor of the trade.

[Drucci]

I admire those that believe the Celtics can easily repeat what happened last year and get into the finals again -- and myabe this time even win. And, I believe that they definitely know how to win in the playoffs. However, Doc has said it several times -- This is not like last year. This is totally different. And they are going to be depending on two guys who between them have played a little more than half a season this year. Shaq and JO will help, but if Shaq can't move on the court or is limited, he will be pretty much useless, as he was toward the end of his playing time earlier this season.

On another note, I know memories are short, but I do not remember the frustation/anger from Doc last year and I don't remember the feeling of tension that I seem to sense around Doc and the players right now.

I agree that last year's "switch" doesn't guarantee success this year. And I'm really mad at the team for pacing while the #1 seed was still at stake, I think it will come back to bite us.

With that said I do know thanks to last year and because the team's core is the same, that the Celtics will play a lot better in the playoffs. They simply aren't playing to win right now, they're just going out there because the games have to be played, they take a good lead and then watch it vanish while shooting long shots that do no take a lot from you physically.

Also I think you are forgetting that there was a "agenda gate" last year when Rondo told the media guys had different agendas and KG corrected the issue in a postgame conference, before acknowledging in the playoffs that they had some "chemistry issues" during the year. So nothing new or worrisome here in my opinion.

I'd feel a lot more comfortable calling the people who blame the trade reactionaries and chicken littles if this exact same result hadn't been predicted immediately following the trade.

Decreased chemistry?  Check.

The team losing games it should win?  Check.

Difficulty integrating the new guys?  Check.

Lack of interior defense?  Check.

Unfortunately, we've enjoyed the further joys of a worse Rajon Rondo than anybody could predict, and a broken offense.  However, for anybody to argue that this reaction is people looking for a scapegoat is simply false; it was predicted at the time.

Where (or what makes you think it exists) have you noticed the "decreased chemistry"?

I agree on all your other points but they can't be attributed to the trade itself. I mean if we had not made the trade we would have basically lost the games we're losing now during Perk's 3 weeks absence and then maybe (just maybe) turned the ship in the right direction with his presence.

And the team's identy has not changed at all. After the trade there were legitimate concerns about our defense but I never read posts saying Green and Krstic would make us a worse offensive team which is the case now mainly because of a lack of focus and execution in my opinion.

[Roy H.]

Where (or what makes you think it exists) have you noticed the "decreased chemistry"?

On the court.  Also, pre-trade you didn't hear the coach calling guys "soft", and rarely did he call them "selfish".

And the team's identy has not changed at all. After the trade there were legitimate concerns about our defense but I never read posts saying Green and Krstic would make us a worse offensive team which is the case now mainly because of a lack of focus and execution in my opinion.

Our defense has gone from #1 to about #5 during this stretch.  We have no interior presence.  That's a pretty big change in team identity, to me.  Again, our coach is calling the team soft and selfish.  That certainly wasn't our pre-trade identity.

[Drucci]

Where (or what makes you think it exists) have you noticed the "decreased chemistry"?

On the court.

Yeah I guess but I meant do you have any specific elements, plays or something? I just have a hard time seeing it, I think we are seeing the same things (poor plays, lack of execution, etc) but attributing these things to different explanations (in your case the decreased chemistry, in mine the lack of focus/general boredom of the entire team).