Author Topic: Melo is Gar-Bage.  (Read 8371 times)

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Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2011, 10:47:32 AM »

Offline Chris

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Melo gets most of the blame, and I certainly understand that, but I think the real reason the Knicks are struggling (and Denver is thriving) is Billups.

It seems like something no one wants to talk about, but in reality, Billups is nowhere near the player he once was...and even the player he used to be would have been a terrible fit for D'Antoni's offense.

At this point in his career Billups is a terrible defender, he can't get into the lane, and he was never great at creating shots for others.  With him running the point, the offense has completely stagnated, and they have turned into complete launchers, shooting contested shots that are often well behind the 3 point line.  There is very little ball movement, and there is even less player movement. 

Felton on the other hand had fit in very well with the system, and became a strong pick and roll PG who could penetrate and create open looks for others...like a homeless man's Steve Nash. 

And of course in Denver, they had the same problem with Billups, which was obvious the way the offense was so much more explosive when Lawson was on the floor.  And now that Lawson is getting starters minutes, they are thriving. 

So yeah, Melo has not been great, but when you are looking for the reason the NYK have been struggling, the answer is at the point (and really, that is always the answer when you are talking about a D'Antoni team struggling).

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2011, 11:27:47 AM »

Offline Cman

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The Knicks got ripped off big time as far as talent and players, and if it wasn't for the Tickets sales aspect, this 

I think its clear that the Nuggets made out better than the pundits/press initially realized. 

But I don't yet view this as a failure on the part of NY.  Part of the benefit to NY is that Melo will likely bring interest from high quality FAs in the offseason, that Stoudamire alone wouldn't.  The goal for the Knicks is to finish the year off on a decent foot.  ie, end the season with a .500+ record, and win at least one game in the playoffs.  If they do that, they will have done okay.
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Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2011, 11:32:49 AM »

Offline Chris

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The Knicks got ripped off big time as far as talent and players, and if it wasn't for the Tickets sales aspect, this 

I think its clear that the Nuggets made out better than the pundits/press initially realized. 

But I don't yet view this as a failure on the part of NY.  Part of the benefit to NY is that Melo will likely bring interest from high quality FAs in the offseason, that Stoudamire alone wouldn't.  The goal for the Knicks is to finish the year off on a decent foot.  ie, end the season with a .500+ record, and win at least one game in the playoffs.  If they do that, they will have done okay.

Yeah, this was a longterm deal for the Knicks.  Much like Miami, they still need time to both fill in the rest of their roster, and find their identity.  The reason guys like Melo and Amare are so valuable is that they are really just entering their prime, and still have a lot of good years left.

They were not going anywhere this year before the trade, and now are probably in the same boat.  But now, they have a much better chance of becoming a contender over the next few years then they did before getting Carmelo.  They just need to have another strong offseason or two. 

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2011, 11:36:40 AM »

Offline ManUp

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Please don't switch your story(again) when he's dropping 40/50 on the Heat in the first round.  :D

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2011, 12:52:18 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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 I can't stand his game. He is a Loser, plain and simple.

 When he "tries" on defense he simply hacks, that's all he's got.

 He's a great scorer sure. But I would rather have Wilson Chandler or Gallanari on the Celts.

 The Knicks got ripped off big time as far as talent and players, and if it wasn't for the Tickets sales aspect, this would be a failure of epic proportions.

 Super immature, entitled  little brat.  Can't stand him.

 It's easy to see now how much talent the Nuggets had without him, and now when you Add Chandler, Gallo, Mosgov, and Ray Felton, which was more that half of the Knicks talent.

 To a team already with JR Smith, Afflalo, Ty Lawson, Nene, Al Harrington, K Martin, Birdman,

 You have the deepest team in the game, with two potential starters at every position. And a coach that knows what to do with all the potential combinations .

 And throw in  the fact Denver has the Knicks 1st rounder and two more 2nd rounders coming to them via the Warriors. And I say cheers to the Nuggets, I hope they hold on to as much of that talent as they can, and I will be cheering for the best non Superstar team we have seen since the Pistons.

 And I hope this hurts the Knicks for years to come.

 Horrible trade! Carmelo = Overrated.
Really? aren't you the same guy that posted this?


 Does Pierce have a no trade? If not, Pierce has a reasonable contract. The Nuggets would still be pretty good over the next three years, while they would have six first rounders in three years to be able to revamp that old team.

 For us we get what we really need. A twenty six year old superstar. Rondo and Carmelo would be spectacular together.
 And Ray, Kevin, Jermaine, Shaq, Nate, Baby, and eventually Perk.
 We would be the favorites no question next year. I love Pierce but to get Melo, Gotta do it.
a complete flip in your opinion of Melo in less than a year.  This would be one of those times I wish they still allowed TP's to be taken away.


ouch!  went back to find a post from august.....thats persistence in order to prove ur point.

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2011, 01:25:32 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I knew the game was over last night with about 4 minutes left when the Celtics were ratcheting up the intensity and attacking the rim, while Melo and the Knicks were smirking, rolling their eyes, and whining to the officials in between chucking bad jumpers.  One of those is how champions react to adversity, the other is how the Miami Heat do it.  Except the Heat are more talented than the Knicks and play defense.

Melo's not a loser; his resume smacks that argument down pretty quickly.  But he doesn't have that killer instinct either.  It's like the 2-on-2 tournament in White Men Can't Jump: some guys play better when they're mad, but Melo plays worse.  So I'm glad we can get under his skin.
I think he does have the killer instinct, but just doesn't have the basketball smarts to not implode when trying to close things out. The dude just loves bad shots.

I have never cared for his game.

As far as winning goes, lots of guys have won it all in college because college ball just lacks talent and a selfish player who is lazy on defense can still take over games regularly there. Melo's positive impact is partly an illusion due to only his good final shot highlights being shown and his blunders not making sportscenter.

Denver success will be a bit embarassing for him.

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2011, 01:27:02 PM »

Offline LakersFan_33

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He's obviously great offensively. You don't average as many points as you do over your entire career by being anything other than that, albeit he takes a lot of shots.

I actually think their struggles have more to do with growing pains and lack of depth due to gutting their team, than his defensive abilities. They should have kept one of those pieces that they sent out (Mosgov for interior presence, or Chandler for bench depth)..Denver would have never been able to trade him to any other team anyway.

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2011, 01:28:13 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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If Anthony won't play defense for a defensive-minded solid coach like George Karl....Who gave him as much freedom offensively as D'Antoni...What makes anybody think that Anthony will commit to defense for any coach?  VanGundy or otherwise?

He fits D'Antoni perfectly.  

What Denver has been since Anthony's departure is predictable and very telling.

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2011, 01:33:58 PM »

Offline ballin

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Nope, Carmelo definitely sucks and is overrated.

Check out this article. David Berri, the guy who came up with the Wins Produced stat (different than win shares) has been saying that Carmelo was overrated for forever, and even predicted that, if anything, the Knicks trade was a wash for the Knicks.

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/carmelo-anthony-is-not-entirely-happy-in-new-york/

Right now he's in total "I told you so" mode and he has every right to be. Carmelo is NOT. THAT. GOOD.

He's an average player at best. Except he kills your team since you have to pay him max money.

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2011, 01:54:55 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Nope, Carmelo definitely sucks and is overrated.

Check out this article. David Berri, the guy who came up with the Wins Produced stat (different than win shares) has been saying that Carmelo was overrated for forever, and even predicted that, if anything, the Knicks trade was a wash for the Knicks.

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/carmelo-anthony-is-not-entirely-happy-in-new-york/

Right now he's in total "I told you so" mode and he has every right to be. Carmelo is NOT. THAT. GOOD.

He's an average player at best. Except he kills your team since you have to pay him max money.
I think it is important to keep in mind that Melo is way above average when it comes to ability. It is his decision making that causes his value to plummet.

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2011, 01:56:38 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Nope, Carmelo definitely sucks and is overrated.

Check out this article. David Berri, the guy who came up with the Wins Produced stat (different than win shares) has been saying that Carmelo was overrated for forever, and even predicted that, if anything, the Knicks trade was a wash for the Knicks.

http://dberri.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/carmelo-anthony-is-not-entirely-happy-in-new-york/

Right now he's in total "I told you so" mode and he has every right to be. Carmelo is NOT. THAT. GOOD.

He's an average player at best. Except he kills your team since you have to pay him max money.
Dave Berri rates players based on one thing, his wins produced statistic.

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2011, 02:09:35 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Melo's positive impact is partly an illusion due to only his good final shot highlights being shown and his blunders not making sportscenter.

That's true to an extent, but Melo has also had extremely good clutch shooting numbers throughout his career.  It's not really selection bias to say he can play very well in close games.

The difference seems to be that he backs down when faced with a determined, aggressive opponent.  I've watched Melo pretty much his whole career, and I've seen him respond to intense, physical play with intensity and improved performance at exactly two points: the Final Four in 2003, and the first two games of the 09 WCF against LA. 

Every other time he's done what he did last night; shown poor, defensive body language and taken soft jumpers without attacking the rim, and become mostly invisible on D.  When challenged, he often helps allow winnable games get out of reach before his last-second abilities can even come into play.

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2011, 02:10:41 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Melo's positive impact is partly an illusion due to only his good final shot highlights being shown and his blunders not making sportscenter.

That's true to an extent, but Melo has also consistently had extremely good clutch shooting throughout his career.  It's not really selection bias to say he can play very well in close games.

The difference seems to be that he backs down when faced with a determined, aggressive opponent.  I've watched Melo pretty much his whole career, and I've seen him respond to intense, physical play with intensity and improved play at exactly two points: the Final Four in 2003, and the first two games of the 09 WCF against LA. 

Every other time he's done what he did last night; shown poor, defensive body language and taken soft jumpers without attacking the rim, and become mostly invisible on D.  He helps allow winnable games get out of reach before his last-second abilities can even come into play.
NBA playbook has a vicious breakdown of how NYKs laziness and poor transition d allowed the C's to win last night.

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2011, 02:13:31 PM »

Offline soap07

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Quote
If Anthony won't play defense for a defensive-minded solid coach like George Karl....Who gave him as much freedom offensively as D'Antoni...What makes anybody think that Anthony will commit to defense for any coach?  VanGundy or otherwise?

Uh, what? Defensive-minded coach George Karl?

Re: Melo is Gar-Bage.
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2011, 02:16:29 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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NBA playbook has a vicious breakdown of how NYKs laziness and poor transition d allowed the C's to win last night.

I'll have to check that out.  Last night's finish reminded me so much of the end of Game 6 against the Cavs.  The Knicks were on their heels when we came back, but once we got the lead, they pretty much seemed to give up and resign themselves to a loss.  Their body language and intensity was horrible for the entire last 3-4 minutes.