Author Topic: Shaq v. Perk  (Read 7981 times)

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Re: Shaq v. Perk
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2011, 05:34:24 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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What exactly is this based on?

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That player is a better defender than Shaq, and a much better defender than Krstic.

The record certainly doesn't reflect that statment as true  this year. Nor do defensive win shares.  Defensive win shares are .06 for Perk this year and 1.6 for Shaq.  Shaq wins this category.

With respect, do you know what a defensive win share is?  If you did, you wouldn't be using it as a stat for somebody who has played 12 games as contrasted to somebody who has played 36.

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Perk  blocks% since you guys like the advanced stats this year  is 2.5.  Shaq is 4.4% blocked shots this year.  Per game Perk has .8 BPG this year to Shaq's 2.0 BPG.  Shaq wins this category.

I don't think anybody ever said "more blocks = better defense".  In fact, I think the argument has been that despite the fact that Perk is a better shot blocker than KG, KG is still the better defender.

I mean, I don't know how to argue with you, so I think I'm just going to move on.  If you haven't seen that Shaq is slower than Perk in rotating, cutting off penetration, etc., I don't know what to say other than that you're missing a lot of what happens on the defensive end.  I guess I could point you to their personal foul rate (Shaq fouls much more than Perk does), but I just don't think you're going to accept anything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions.   

I have seen you argue in favor of KP many times, now argue these points... show me the stats that Shaq is much worse on defense. I argue that while Shaq at this point is not a better defender than KP he isn't greatly worse as some of you would suggest (even at 39). I also want to add that while Shaq may not be as good as KP defensively he is much better offensively (again, even at 39)! So, if KP is a slightly better defender (I won't argue there) but worse offensively how is KP better for the team than Shaq? Now, don't anyone talk to me about injuries until you show me when Shaq doesn't play during the playoffs b/c of injury... Shaq has been healthier than KP this season, you can see by games played! How can anyone seriously argue that KP will play in the playoffs even though he is injured too but b/c Shaq has injuries now also, he won't? Show me any legit info and I will see if "you people" are right about KP being amazing defensively and Shaq being basically a scrub by comparison. I see a lot of people say it but I don't recall seeing any information on it.
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Re: Shaq v. Perk
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2011, 05:38:17 PM »

Offline Marcus13

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^^^Minutes played has to count as some sort of importance.  Even if Shaq was a little better for this team than KP (Which I don't believe), can Shaq's 15 minutes really compare to KP's 30?

Re: Shaq v. Perk
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2011, 05:44:06 PM »

Online Roy H.

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What exactly is this based on?

Quote
That player is a better defender than Shaq, and a much better defender than Krstic.

The record certainly doesn't reflect that statment as true  this year. Nor do defensive win shares.  Defensive win shares are .06 for Perk this year and 1.6 for Shaq.  Shaq wins this category.

With respect, do you know what a defensive win share is?  If you did, you wouldn't be using it as a stat for somebody who has played 12 games as contrasted to somebody who has played 36.

Quote
Perk  blocks% since you guys like the advanced stats this year  is 2.5.  Shaq is 4.4% blocked shots this year.  Per game Perk has .8 BPG this year to Shaq's 2.0 BPG.  Shaq wins this category.

I don't think anybody ever said "more blocks = better defense".  In fact, I think the argument has been that despite the fact that Perk is a better shot blocker than KG, KG is still the better defender.

I mean, I don't know how to argue with you, so I think I'm just going to move on.  If you haven't seen that Shaq is slower than Perk in rotating, cutting off penetration, etc., I don't know what to say other than that you're missing a lot of what happens on the defensive end.  I guess I could point you to their personal foul rate (Shaq fouls much more than Perk does), but I just don't think you're going to accept anything that doesn't fit your preconceived notions.   

I have seen you argue in favor of KP many times, now argue these points... show me the stats that Shaq is much worse on defense. I argue that while Shaq at this point is not a better defender than KP he isn't greatly worse as some of you would suggest (even at 39). I also want to add that while Shaq may not be as good as KP defensively he is much better offensively (again, even at 39)! So, if KP is a slightly better defender (I won't argue there) but worse offensively how is KP better for the team than Shaq? Now, don't anyone talk to me about injuries until you show me when Shaq doesn't play during the playoffs b/c of injury... Shaq has been healthier than KP this season, you can see by games played! How can anyone seriously argue that KP will play in the playoffs even though he is injured too but b/c Shaq has injuries now also, he won't? Show me any legit info and I will see if "you people" are right about KP being amazing defensively and Shaq being basically a scrub by comparison. I see a lot of people say it but I don't recall seeing any information on it.

You're putting a whole lot of words in my mouth.  Among the things I never said:

* Perk is a "much" better defender than Shaq

* Perk is "amazing" of defense but Shaq is a "scrub"

* Perk will be healthy in the playoffs, but Shaq won't

* Perk is better for the team than Shaq (I'd like both of them on the team)

I'm a Shaq fan.  I really supported the signing, and was excited by it.  Heck, two years ago I had him as my starting center in the "CelticsBlog Draft".  He's still a good player.  He's also a good one-on-one post defender.  He is *not*, however, a good pick-and-roll defender.  If you want stats, look at how often he fouls (5.8 fouls per 36 minutes).  That's because he's slow in rotating and at cutting off penetration. 

Like I said, as for the rest of your post, I don't think anybody ever said those things, so it doesn't make a lot of sense to address a strawman.


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Re: Shaq v. Perk
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2011, 05:51:30 PM »

Offline OsirusCeltics

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People keep thinking with their heart instead of their eyes.

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Shaq is way better defensively than Perk.
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Shaq ... is not bad at pick and roll defense.

The statements above are the ones I think are false (with the first one probably true for some people, but not the majority).

Let me ask you a question:  if Shaq is better than Perk on both offense and defense, why did Perk just get a $9 million per year contract, while Shaq is making the league's minimum salary?  If Shaq was that good, wouldn't at least one contender have offered him the MLE for a year or two?

Wow, you judge based on that? So Brendan Haywood and Darko Milicic bust be one of the best in the league right? With the money they got. Shaq at 39 made the Celtics one of the best offensively efficient teams in the NBA. Teams were forced to shoot jumpers with Shaq in the paint. And also allowed us to get to the penalty earlier with teams doing the hack-a-shaq. Celtics could have NEVER done that with Perk. Thats defense you don't see on the stat sheet
« Last Edit: March 11, 2011, 06:19:48 PM by OsirusCeltics »