New Celtic Slogan: "We Lost...Blame Krstic"

[GreenEnvy]

We should never lose to a team like that, missing it's second-best player in Gordon, but those games happen.

It seemed like the only one's who gave it everything from the tip were Pierce and Krstic. Ray and KG came in and out, and both missed a bunch of shots they normally hit.

I'm very satisfied with Krstic thus far. He has range on his shot and is comfortable taking it. He also does this odd thing unfamiliar to the C's - it's like he tries securing his teammates misses. I can't explain it because I haven't exactly seen many examples of it over the last two seasons. It's like, an offensive rebound I suppose.

This is a game we haven't seen much of this year, so I will give it a pass. When we were down 22, we could have packed up and looked to the next game, but instead we fought and fought 'til the final seconds.

[Celtics4ever]

Rebounding is usually much easier on the defensive end.   You have inside position at lot of the times and can box out.   Usually if a guy is a better offensive than defensive it's most likely in his head and all about desire.  He wants the offensive boards and goes to get them.  He doesn't want to defensive ones as bad as they are not free offensive touches.

BTW, we were a bad rebounding team with Perk too.  Weren't we second to last in offensive boards.   A lot of it is our defensive philosopy.  We give up boards to get back on transition D.

Way to post stats that bolster your argument guys.  KG has had much better years of shotblocking than Perk could ever dream of.  Most blocks KP ever had was in 08 he had 2 BPG.  He was down to .8 BPG this year in those 12 games a little more than Krstic .7 BPG for his career.  In 03-04 KG averaged 2.2 BPG. KP for his career has averaged 1.4 BPG.  KG in the twlight of his career is still at 1.6 BPG for his career average.  KG is a way better rebounder too.   KG is taller and more athletic it doesn't take a slide rule to figure out that he will block more shots. Look at Krstic stats folks they have improved here.   I think Kendrick has a hard path to go in OKC, provided he ever plays there, I think this stats will go down there just as Krstic has went up here.  

Perk's blocks are down this year.  He is damaged goods folks.  .8 BPG is a lot less than his career average of 1.4 BPG.  I thought he looking like he lacked lift and mobility and this stat confirms it.  Down half a block a game.  Guy worked his butt off but there is only so much one can do after a few injuries to one's knees or ankles.

Records don't lie though and despite all the comments I've yet to hear this one well refuted.   80% winning percentage with Krstic is better than 58% we had with Perk.  With all those open lanes, not Krstic's fault either as he doesn't guard every perimeter player at once, does he?  We still won a higher percentage of games than we did with Perk.  We won at a higher clip without Perk prior to his coming back too.   He was clearly expendable and Danny pulled the trigger on the deal.   We have a better bench today than we did before the trade.  I think its a work in progress as we work in the new guys.   Give it one month for Murphy to get in shape and Shaq to start playing.   Shaq is still better than Perk even old.  The win loss record bore this out this year. There really is no arguement one is on the team and one is not.

The Clippers abused us on the perimeter, they got to the paint whenever they wanted.

Krstic who is being blamed for both open lanes indicating porous perimeter D and wide open shots.   Perk didn't guard the PG, SG, C, SF and PF at once folks.  Neither can Krstic people.  Since when did Centers play one on five? Blaming one guy for this has made me think some people who I used to respect their basketball knowledge know less than I thought they did.  This ought to tell you its a lot about the new guys not picking up the schemes.  A Center can help on D but the NBA does have the illegal defense rules which limit even this at times.  If you drop out of a certain area from your man its a technical.  A center is the control tower on D and can be the last line of defense.  But its simply not his role to cover the entire perimeter which some are blaming Krstic for.  I am Celtic fan first and player fan second.   I guess many here were KP fans first.

Dribble out that shot clock, Rondo

Maybe he is trying to be like LeBron.

[droponov]

droponov - I respect your posting of statistics, but when a player has a youtube video dedicated to JUST SHOTBLOCKING - to me that warrants an elite shotblocker.

What other players have a vid dedicated to just that? A few - but not many.

If you chose to use statistics, that's ok - but to me I chose to label KG as I see fit.

I think you're misunderstanding my position. I never said you couldn't label KG as an elite shot-blocker.

Just that either your concept of elite is quite bizarre or  you're just wrong (which seems to be the case, apparently mislead by an youtube video... I've seen youtube videos dedicated to Scalabrine dunks, btw).  

droponov - you are toeing the line.

At the end of the day - respect my post.

You have no authority to state what is bizarre or wrong.

Review the CelticsBlog rules.

It's against the rules to state you're wrong? Link?

Anyway, if so, I'll break the rules. If not, you'll have to deal with it. You're wrong to state Garnett was an elite shot-blocker. Elite shot-blockers block a lot more shots than Garnett ever did. If you meant he was a flashy shot-blocker, you may be right. Otherwise, you're wrong - regardless of the rules.

Garnett is an elite help/weak-side shot blocker due to his mobility. Elite overall? Not really. Does that solve this argument?

I agree with the mobility, but not with the rest. I think he was equally good in both types of blocks, not significantly better in either one. In fact, he had his best numbers in terms of blocks in his first couple of seasons when he was guarding 3s because his length advantage would allow him to block his man a fair amount of times.

Garnett was never one to go for the shot-block as often as those elite shot-blockers, the Mutombos and Ratliffs of the league. Not his type of thing, not his mentality. Amazing shot contester - one of the bests of his generation - but merely good as a shot-blocker. .

[BballTim]

Way to post stats that bolster your argument guys.  KG has had much better years of shotblocking than Perk could ever dream of.  Most blocks KP ever had was in 08 he had 2 BPG.  He was down to .8 BPG this year in those 12 games a little more than Krstic .7 BPG for his career.  In 03-04 KG averaged 2.2 BPG. KP for his career has averaged 1.4 BPG.  KG in the twlight of his career is still at 1.6 BPG for his career average.  KG is a way better rebounder too.   KG is taller and more athletic it doesn't take a slide rule to figure out that he will block more shots.

  You do realize that KG's 1.6 blocks a game comes in 37 minutes a game and Perk's 1.4 blocks a game comes in 22 minutes a game, and that KG's 2.2 blocks a game in 03-04 came in 39 minutes a game while Perks 2 blocks a game in 07-08 came in 30 minutes a game, don't you? Also consider that Perk's blocks *this* season are roughly the same amount of blocks per minute that KG's averaged in his 4 years with the Celts? Your slide rule skills are a little off.

[droponov]

As for KG and blocks, he's definitely not an elite shot-blocker any more, but in his prime he was (or at the very least, on the cusp of elite).  It's not a weakness, but also not a huge strength.

Nobody said it was a weakness, he was a good shot-blocker.

Elite? It can be semantics, but in his best season as a shot-blocker during his prime (also his MVP season), he wasn't even in the top-20 league wide (and leaving out players who didn't play more than 1000 minutes, otherwise he wouldn't even make the top-30 with a 500 minutes qualifying threshold).

In the following year he didn't even make the top-50. In the previous one, out of the top-40.

If you aren't amongst the 40 best during much of your prime and barely crack the 30 best during your career year and you're still elite, then being elite is not much different than being above average.

[Roy H.]

KG is taller and more athletic it doesn't take a slide rule to figure out that he will block more shots.

Wow.  So let me see if I understand your argument:  even though Perk has in fact blocked more shots both per game and per minute than KG in each season between '08 and '10, KG is the better shot blocker because he's taller?

Heck, even this year with a recovering Perk who apparently "lacks lift", he blocked more shots per minute and in terms of overall percentage than KG did (and the same number per game).

How can anybody argue with a straight face that KG is a better shot blocker than Perk, or that he's been better than Perk while in a Celtics uniform?  It's just not even remotely true, and there are solid numbers to back it up.  

Again, KG is the better defender, but Perk is the better shot blocker.  It's a pretty black and white issue.

[droponov]

Krstic who is being blamed for both open lanes indicating porous perimeter D and wide open shots.   Perk didn't guard the PG, SG, C, SF and PF at once folks.  Neither can Krstic people.  Since when did Centers play one on five? Blaming one guy for this has made me think some people who I used to respect their basketball knowledge know less than I thought they did.  This ought to tell you its a lot about the new guys not picking up the schemes. A Center can help on D but the NBA does have the illegal defense rules which limit even this at times.  If you drop out of a certain area from your man its a technical. A center is the control tower on D and can be the last line of defense.  But its simply not his role to cover the entire perimeter which some are blaming Krstic for.

First, bigs are as important as the perimeter defenders denying penetration. At least since someone invented a play named the pick'n'roll. The problem last night was the lack of pick'n'roll defense from the bigs.

Second, illegal defense rules were eliminated in 2001/2002. That's almost 10 years ago. .....  You can drop out of your man's area at will. You can blatantly ignore him if you want, stay as far away from him as possible. It has been that way for the last 9 seasons. You never noticed teams playing zones?

edit: no personal attacks, and please watch the overall tone in the post.  We require much more respect of other posters on this site. - Chris

What personal attacks and what was the problem with the tone in this post? There was no personal attack whatsoever and there was plenty of respect - unlike the post I was replying to, btw.

[Chris]

Tommy is going to be really offended that you changed it from "We Lost...Blame the refs" without his permission.  I am pretty sure that as long as he lives, that slogan cannot be changed.

[Chris]

How can anybody argue with a straight face that KG is a better shot blocker than Perk, or that he's been better than Perk while in a Celtics uniform?  It's just not even remotely true, and there are solid numbers to back it up.  

I would easily argue that KG is a better shot blocker than Perk, even now.  I think Perk is more prolific, mainly due to the fact that he spends more time on the weakside of the defense, and in the post, while KG spends more time chasing guys on the perimeter, and trying to jump passing lanes.  But from a pure skill standpoint, I think KG is a better shot blocker. 

[droponov]

How can anybody argue with a straight face that KG is a better shot blocker than Perk, or that he's been better than Perk while in a Celtics uniform?  It's just not even remotely true, and there are solid numbers to back it up.  

I would easily argue that KG is a better shot blocker than Perk, even now.  I think Perk is more prolific, mainly due to the fact that he spends more time on the weakside of the defense, and in the post, while KG spends more time chasing guys on the perimeter, and trying to jump passing lanes.  But from a pure skill standpoint, I think KG is a better shot blocker. 

Last season, for every block on his man KG had, Perkins had 2.3. Not weakside or help shot-blocking, but blocks when contesting shots m2m.

[barefacedmonk]

Perk's blocks are down this year.  He is damaged goods folks.  .8 BPG is a lot less than his career average of 1.4 BPG.  I thought he looking like he lacked lift and mobility and this stat confirms it.  Down half a block a game.  Guy worked his butt off but there is only so much one can do after a few injuries to one's knees or ankles.

Krstic's BPG this year with OKC: 0.4

His BPG this year Celtics: 0.5

A hobbled, with no lift, damaged goods called Perkins' BPG this year: 0.8

He still blocks more shots than a healthy Krstic.

Krstic recorded his highest BPG in 08-09 : 1.1

Perk's highest: 2.0...in the same year.

BTW, Perk's 0.8 BPG this year is still more than Krstic's 0.7 career BPG.

[Andy Jick]

Interesting discussion, for sure.

I hope we win the whole thing this year, because if we don't this stuff will only get worse...

[Celtics4ever]

They are actual stats per game I used because they are real and not projected stats.  Perk doesn't play those minutes because of whatever reason then the phantom stats are not produced.  This isn't startomatic basketball is it ?   Stats per minute are not produced if those minutes are not played folks.  I would guess foul trouble sat him down.  They don't use by the minute stats but rather cumulative stats for the Hall of Fame, no?

They don't call it illegal defense but rather defensive three seconds but  you still get a technical.  They were not thrown out, they were modified, but they serve the same purpose.  Techincally your right, Mr. Hobbs and I was wrong.

• A new defensive three-second rule will prohibit a defensive player from remaining in the lane for more than three consecutive seconds without closely guarding an offensive player.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

I simply called it the wrong name, my bad.  I can admit when I am wrong a virtue not shared by many here.  A center can't simply clog the lane.  The center does not guard perimeter players though.  That would be a mismatch.
There is a hige difference between manning up D, post D and help D. He helps out when he can on penetration but you all make it sound like his out there challenging jumpers which good centers don't do.  

We have not had a good center since Parrish either.  Perk was servicable but not good.  Same can be said of Krstic and Shaq.

You don't need to edit post against me  as I don't take it personally.  You have to respect someone to be hurt by their statement.  That does not apply here.

[Roy H.]

They are actual stats per game I used because they are real and not projected stats.  Perk doesn't play those minutes because of whatever reason then the phantom stats are not produced.  This isn't startomatic basketball is it ?   Stats per minute are not produced if those minutes are not played folks.  I would guess foul trouble sat him down.  They don't use by the minute stats but rather cumulative stats for the Hall of Fame, no?

I'm having a hard time understanding what you're talking about.  The stats listed were "per game" stats.  In '08 through '10, Perk blocked significantly more shots per game than KG.  This season, in a smaller sample size coming back from injury, Perk blocked as many shots per game than KG, despite playing fewer minutes.  These aren't projected numbers, they're the real thing.  What's your argument?

[Donoghus]

Krstic who is being blamed for both open lanes indicating porous perimeter D and wide open shots.   Perk didn't guard the PG, SG, C, SF and PF at once folks.  Neither can Krstic people.  Since when did Centers play one on five? Blaming one guy for this has made me think some people who I used to respect their basketball knowledge know less than I thought they did.  This ought to tell you its a lot about the new guys not picking up the schemes. A Center can help on D but the NBA does have the illegal defense rules which limit even this at times.  If you drop out of a certain area from your man its a technical. A center is the control tower on D and can be the last line of defense.  But its simply not his role to cover the entire perimeter which some are blaming Krstic for.

First, bigs are as important as the perimeter defenders denying penetration. At least since someone invented a play named the pick'n'roll. The problem last night was the lack of pick'n'roll defense from the bigs.

Second, illegal defense rules were eliminated in 2001/2002. That's almost 10 years ago. .....  You can drop out of your man's area at will. You can blatantly ignore him if you want, stay as far away from him as possible. It has been that way for the last 9 seasons. You never noticed teams playing zones?

edit: no personal attacks, and please watch the overall tone in the post.  We require much more respect of other posters on this site. - Chris

What personal attacks and what was the problem with the tone in this post? There was no personal attack whatsoever and there was plenty of respect - unlike the post I was replying to, btw.

Do YOU really want to push this, seriously?  You know who you are.  I threw a warning about this earlier this afternoon concerning this very thing.