People have got to stop with the Nenad vs Perk comparisons.

[greenpride32]

Chris Kaman dropped 27-12 on Perk:

http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/boxscore_reader.html?gameid=20091227/BOSLAC

He was the center that game, not Jordan.  Does Perk hold every opposing C to 1-10 shooting?  If so I must have missed all those games.

Why can't people get over Perk?  This is not meant to  be a knock on Perk, but we've basically been playing without him all season and we haven't missed a beat.  Yes we miss what he brings to the table, but what he brought weren't make or break attributes for this team.

[Shamrocker]

Chris Kaman dropped 27-12 on Perk:

http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/boxscore_reader.html?gameid=20091227/BOSLAC

He was the center that game, not Jordan.  Does Perk hold every opposing C to 1-10 shooting?  If so I must have missed all those games.

Why can't people get over Perk?  This is not meant to  be a knock on Perk, but we've basically been playing without him all season and we haven't missed a beat.  Yes we miss what he brings to the table, but what he brought weren't make or break attributes for this team.

Get over Perk? I'll never get over Perk     Love you big fella!

But in all seriousness this team needs a quality low post defender at the five. Krstic is many things, but a defender he is not. 

[clover]

Chris Kaman dropped 27-12 on Perk:

http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/boxscore_reader.html?gameid=20091227/BOSLAC

He was the center that game, not Jordan.  Does Perk hold every opposing C to 1-10 shooting?  If so I must have missed all those games.

Why can't people get over Perk?  This is not meant to  be a knock on Perk, but we've basically been playing without him all season and we haven't missed a beat.  Yes we miss what he brings to the table, but what he brought weren't make or break attributes for this team.

Get over Perk? I'll never get over Perk     Love you big fella!

But in all seriousness this team needs a quality low post defender at the five. Krstic is many things, but a defender he is not. 

Perk was my favorite Celtic for years.  I don't really have someone else to replace him at this point, so I guess I'll default to KG.  I liked the trade, but I'll admit, last night has made me nervous.

[jdz101]

Because most know he is better then you are describing. 

Give me some sort of proof of that being the case after he returned from injury, statistically or otherwise. Our worst run this year was after he returned.

Because two of the three games lost during the time he was starting came against two of the title contenders (LA and Dallas), it is Perks fault.  It is also a really big sample, right. 

Its the same old argument I've been having with friends and people on this forum.

Me: "You cant expect him to be anywhere near as good after an ACL and he noticeably wasn't as quick or athletic and then immediately got injured again."

Others: "He's still super valuable but he didn't have a chance to show that because he only played three games then got injured again"

Me: *Walks away perplexed because that makes no sense*

The fact that the guy is so large and has now got no game practice and two dodgy knees makes him FAR LESS VALUABLE to a team that really needs to win a ring in a hurry.

[droponov]

I agree that we stop the comparisons.


But you aren't doing that.

Lets be real Perk has been owned by just about every player in the league at some point and a lot of them more often than not.

Kaman, Bogut, Bynum, Gasol, Lopez, Howard, Lee have all had there way plenty of times against Perk and those are just off the top of my head.

So just because he was a "team" guy and did the "dirty work" and had a few decent games against  Howard (who previously has been inept in the post anyway) that he is a game changer defensively.

All-stars played well against him?  Did he get owned by DeAndre Jordan?

Ok Perk did well against poorer centers in the league and bad against the better centers that sounds awesome.

I have no idea how he has done against Jordan but he is the exact type of guy that would give Perk trouble an athletic monster that would just jump over him.

I loved Perk on this team but this team made him. Time will tell how he does on another team but I think in our system with the defensive players we had the defensive coaches being in the same system for 8 years certainly made Perk look as good as he could, and I think he just about reached his ceiling.

So I guess Krstic is about to take off? 

I don't even understand what you are talking about

Perk averaged 5 points a game and 6 rebounds....awesome. He is the 12th best center in the league awesome, Krstic is probably the 15th best and is our back up, what is your point?? That Perks defense is slightly better than Krstic's offense?

It's not a slight difference. Perkins is arguably a top-5 defender at his position, Krstic is nowhere near that from an offensive perspective. Perkins is an average starter in a good team, Krstic can't be more than a 4th/5th big in a good team. Huge difference - as the difference in what GMs are willing to pay for them shows.

The direct comparison isn't really important. None of them is a go-to guy in this team. None of them is even a top-3 option. They're both role-players. From that type of player, defense and rebounding is a lot more important than offense. Offense starts offering diminishing returns. There's a limited number of possessions to use but in every defensive possession you need 5 guys to defend.

Think about Isiah Thomas' as the Knicks GM for example. People who believe Krstic brings more or less the same value to Boston as Perkins would probably be big fans of Isiah Thomas as a GM.

[wdleehi]

Because most know he is better then you are describing. 

Give me some sort of proof of that being the case after he returned from injury, statistically or otherwise. Our worst run this year was after he returned.

Because two of the three games lost during the time he was starting came against two of the title contenders (LA and Dallas), it is Perks fault.  It is also a really big sample, right. 

Its the same old argument I've been having with friends and people on this forum.

Me: "You cant expect him to be anywhere near as good after an ACL and he noticeably wasn't as quick or athletic and then immediately got injured again."

Others: "He's still super valuable but he didn't have a chance to show that because he only played three games then got injured again"

Me: *Walks away perplexed because that makes no sense*

The fact that the guy is so large and has now got no game practice and two dodgy knees makes him FAR LESS VALUABLE to a team that really needs to win a ring in a hurry.

Yet a contender trade Green and a 1st for him in the hopes of getting over a hump.   

[hpantazo]

Because most know he is better then you are describing. 

Give me some sort of proof of that being the case after he returned from injury, statistically or otherwise. Our worst run this year was after he returned.

Because two of the three games lost during the time he was starting came against two of the title contenders (LA and Dallas), it is Perks fault.  It is also a really big sample, right. 

Its the same old argument I've been having with friends and people on this forum.

Me: "You cant expect him to be anywhere near as good after an ACL and he noticeably wasn't as quick or athletic and then immediately got injured again."

Others: "He's still super valuable but he didn't have a chance to show that because he only played three games then got injured again"

Me: *Walks away perplexed because that makes no sense*

The fact that the guy is so large and has now got no game practice and two dodgy knees makes him FAR LESS VALUABLE to a team that really needs to win a ring in a hurry.

I agree that Perk was not, and might never be, the player that he was before the knee injury. I think that's the main reason Ainge traded him. Kristic is a good, smart player. He's the only player on the team who goes for offensive rebounds, and he has a good enough shot to stretch the floor for guys like Rondo. Unfortunately, as I saw in the Clippers game last night, Kristic just can't defend very well. Kaman easily backed him down and got whatever shot he wanted, and Jordan killed him. The comparison should be if Shaq is as good as pre-injury Perk, not if Kristic is, as Kristic is not expected to be our starter our to shut down opposing big men. Kristic is much better than Semih now, who would have been starting for us now if none of the trades we made this year had happened, and that is the fair comparison.

[Eja117]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lafrera01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/krstine01.html



Give me Raef.

Raef was an all-star and was a league leader in blocks, I'd probably take him over both Perk and Krstic

I don't think Raef was an all-star. What year was that? Anyway it's tangential. The guy had good years.

[Eja117]

Much as I dislike the comparisons also, (as Perk and Krstic are very different players alltogether), people are entitled to their opinions, and have every right to compare whoever they want to compare, in any way they wish to do so.

Don't get all Constitutional on me Bakhu! That is a living breathing document. If we want to take away the right to feeling we can!

[Eja117]

EJ, I think we at Celticsblog get that you really liked Perk and were saddened and angered when he was traded.

Now can you please stop attacking the new players and acting as though anybody who says good things about them is maligning Perk and his contributions to the C's?

Krstic is by no means an All-Star.  Neither was Perk, though.  Neither of them is ever going to be an All-Star.  They have fairly opposite strengths as players, but since so far Krstic has basically been slotted into Perk's role, it's fair to compare the two.  It's not absurd to do so.

If we're going to win #18 this year, we're going to do it by getting quality minutes from Nenad Krstic and not Kendrick Perkins.  That's just how it is.  I think there are decent arguments to be made that, all things considered, we're better off that way.

Ok I get that some people like Krstic.  I totally underestimated that.
Also as you can tell I'm not a root for laundry kind of guy and a lot of other people are (more than I thought) and I admit that has its place in the world.

I am not maligning Jeff Green or even the other pickups.

I'm not saying that saying something like "I like Nenad's shot" is saying something bad about Perk.

I'm happy Nenad is playing well so far.

I do think there's a lot of Perk revisionism going on and a lot of Nenad revisionism going on as well now that he's a Celt, and I sorta find that disingenuous.

[Eja117]

One place that doesn't come up on the boxscores that I think is huge that people aren't discussing is the leadership area.

Perk is a big leader. Krstic isn't. I think it's a big reason long time vets were crying and not themselves for days after.

It's like trading an older Patton for a young Gen Westmoreland and colonel to be named later.

The loss is beyond quantifying. 

[PosImpos]

One place that doesn't come up on the boxscores that I think is huge that people aren't discussing is the leadership area.

Perk is a big leader. Krstic isn't. I think it's a big reason long time vets were crying and not themselves for days after.

It's like trading an older Patton for a young Gen Westmoreland and colonel to be named later.

The loss is beyond quantifying.  

Here is where I think you may have something.  Nenad appears to be a really nice guy and a good teammate, but he doesn't provide the same attitude and edge on the floor that Perk did.  He also simply doesn't have the same cred in the locker room by virtue of being here for many years.  

If there's one thing that worries me most about trading Perk, it's the potential chemistry hit.  I'm already concerned that Rondo is dogging it a little bit because his best friend got traded.

[Tai]

One place that doesn't come up on the boxscores that I think is huge that people aren't discussing is the leadership area.

Perk is a big leader. Krstic isn't. I think it's a big reason long time vets were crying and not themselves for days after.

It's like trading an older Patton for a young Gen Westmoreland and colonel to be named later.

The loss is beyond quantifying. 

Krstic was the captain (not sure if only one) of the Serbian National team in the Worlds...I mean, I guess that doesn't mean much to being, say, the captain of Argentina or even Greece, but let's not say Krstic was never a leader.

Naturally it wouldn't be fair to call him a leader on the Celtics after only being on the team for a couple of weeks, and not knowing the system, but he has leadership qualities too.

And you know something, if Perk was really considered a leader, that's discouraging considering how many techs he always had.

[fairweatherfan]

If there's one thing that worries me most about trading Perk, it's the potential chemistry hit.  I'm already concerned that Rondo is dogging it a little bit because his best friend got traded.

I agree on this - on paper I've been on board with the trade since the initial shock wore off.  It stands a strong chance of making us better this year and a stronger one of improving us in the future.

But beyond actual production, Perk was a big part of the soul of this team.  One of the biggest strengths of this team seems to be their ability to feed off their own energy, and Perk was always a major part of keeping them playing hungry.  It's going to be tougher to replace Perk's scowl than his defense, if that makes any sense.

I did really like seeing Jeff Green calling out rotations and picks from the bench last night.  He's not going to give us the same attitude Perk did, but that's a very good early sign for fitting in with this team.

[LooseCannon]

If we're going to compare Krstic and Perkins, one of the important statistical categories is healthy knees.

I'm going to go ahead and predict that Jermaine O'Neal appears in more playoff games than Kendrick Perkins this season.