Krstic is being overrated

[CelticG1]

Krstic is not a shot blocker, and as I've been saying a lot lately, NBA lineups without at least one shot blocker on the floor are BAD. Any team with decent guards will just go to the hoop and gets and-1's or free throws or layups.
 

Perk wasn't a shotblocker for us this year, either.  He had no lift on his shot challenges.  Still excellent at rotating and contesting, but he wasn't doing much in the way of swatting.  KG has some nice blocks but he's not what I'd classify as a shot-blocker either. Our best two shot-blockers this year have been the O'Neals.

As for shot-blocking, it's useful but it's not as essential as you're making it out to be.  The big 4 + Krstic line-up has been very effective defensively (other than that 1st quarter against the Bucks), as were the Big 4 with this year's completely earthbound version of Perk.  Shot-blocking is a great defensive weapon, but a team can play excellent defense without it.

Also we do have the league leader in charges taken which  is better than blocking shots. I think that defintiely makes a player hesitate when driving the lane especially for guys like Lebron, Wade, Rose, Melo who don't want to pick up fouls

[Spilling Green Dye]

Krstic and Perkins weren't traded for 1-for-1, so analyzing them vs eachother w/o mention of anything else is not accurate.  Also, people are using Perkins' stats & play from previous years, and not what he's done recently (sit the pine with injuries).

To me, anyone who steps into our system & team becomes overrated.  The "big 4" can make most anyone look good (Davis, Scalabrine, Powe, Nate Robinson, Semih, etc).  Krstic is doing a good job on the offensive end of making the most of his opportunities and limiting his mistakes.  I agree his inside presence on defense & rebounding is lackluster and does not fully make up for his offensive upgrade.  However, this team is supposed to have Krstic coming off the bench and not starting. 

All things indicate that Shaq will be starting in the playoffs.  With this assumption, the question then becomes:  Who would you rather have come off the bench with the 2nd unit, Krstic or Perkins?  The gap, in favor of Perkins, then becomes much thinner when you're talking bench & not starters.

If people say that Krstic should be starting over Shaq then I agree, he's overrated.  But if people like what he can bring off the bench, then I think he's valued properly.

[Roy H.]

If people say that Krstic should be starting over Shaq then I agree, he's overrated.  But if people like what he can bring off the bench, then I think he's valued properly.

I don't want to call anybody out, but here's the post that inspired this thread:

The shaq thing isn't even that important to be honest

not as important as fans and the media think. Kristic is every bit as good as Perkins but, I think he’ll be back.

This was followed by several people agreeing.  To me, the statements that "Krstic is every bit as good as Perkins" and that "The shaq thing [i.e., Shaq being healthy for the playoffs] isn't that important" are both HUGE examples of the overrating of Krstic.  The fact that several members endorsed these statements was just a bridge too far for me.

I do agree with you that Krstic should be fine in a bench role, whether that's second or third string.  I just hope that Doc doesn't ask him to play many minutes beside BBD or Green at PF, so that we don't get killed on the boards.  I'm having Lakers flash backs.

[KG Living Legend]

 Just had to do it. Perk was slightly overrated.

 And Nenad is Vastly underrated. I remember him well and saw him play a lot with Jason Kidd and the Nets and always thought.
 This guy is "underrated"

 And he is. Now he gets to play with  a Mini, Faster, Jason Kid Clone, and a tean that truly shares the ball, and you already can see what he is capable of.

 We all now his stengths and weaknesses. But Overall and especially when you factor in Perk's injury bugs, I'll take Nenad going forward hands down over Perk.

 

[barefacedmonk]

LOL...I expected someone to start this kind of thread yesterday...surprised it took so long.

[Jon]

I think at the crux of the whole of the debate is everyone's feelings about the trade.  Many who like the trade want to jump to overrate Krstic and many who miss Perk want to react against this sentiment.  

While I initially questioned the trade, I have come to like it.  However, I'll readily admit that Krstic is being overrated.  But, let's also keep in mind, what player who has been teamed with our quartet of All Stars hasn't looked significantly better than he probably is?  

Shaq was left for dead by some last year.  People thought he was a team killer who couldn't play defense.  However, insert him into a lineup with the Big Four, and he's rejuvenated, throwing down alley-oops and being a significant part of a team with the best defense in the NBA.  

And that's why while I'll readily admit that Krstic is being offensively overrated (and his shortcomings on defense are being underrated), I also have to ask whether the same people jumping on those overrating Krstic are also the same people who potentially overrated Kendrick Perkins.  

Now let me say that without question that Perkins is a more valuable player than Krstic.  However, I'd also contend that Perkins isn't as irreplaceable as some would suggest either.  For instance, if Perkins was so integral to our success, why has he repeatedly been off the floor in close games?  Additionally, if he was such a fundamental part of our defensive cohesion, why did our defense not suffer with the likes of Shaquille O'Neal, Semih Erden, and Big Baby patrolling the paint?  

Now that's not to underscore everything Perkins has done.  Perkins was arguably my favorite player on the Celtics prior to the trade and I still think he's one of the best post defenders in the NBA.  

However, I think if we're going to criticize people for overrating Krstic because he looks good playing with a quartet of All Stars, we also have to ask ourselves if we overrated Perkins for the same reason.  

[wiley]

As a supporter of the trade I will say that I would be much more comfortable if either Shaq or JO can play a decent number of minutes....

It's not just about defense alone, but intimidation.  The lane should be unfriendly, and Perk get high marks in that regard (I'm not talking about hurting anyway...but perception....we need a new intimidator in there).

Let's say no Shaq or J.O.  Can a healthy Kristic, Baby and Murphy give us enough at the center position?  I'm inclined to say yes.  I think we can go all the way still, but it may take 2 or 3 seven game series to get it done.  With a healthy Shaq or JO I think we can avoid any 7 gamers.

Finally, Perk this year might or might not have provided his usual intimidation...we'll see and I wish him well as always.  Love the guy.

edit:  don't know if Kristic is being overrated.  He pleasantly surprised everyone.  That much is clear.......people who claim he can defend as well as Perk I would think are wrong, but I wouldn't know.  I do know he's not the same presence in the lane.....

[Vermont Green]

Let's say no Shaq or J.O.  Can a healthy Kristic, Baby and Murphy give us enough at the center position?  I'm inclined to say yes.  I think we can go all the way still, but it may take 2 or 3 seven game series to get it done.  With a healthy Shaq or JO I think we can avoid any 7 gamers.

To me this is the key.  If neither O'Neal comes back healthy, would Perk+Baby+Murphy/Erden be enough and I say no.  Perk generally would only give about 25 minutes due to fouls.  I suspect if it was straight up (which it isn't) between Perk and Krstic, Doc would probably take Perk but there is not that much difference in my mind.

I like the trade, we are better for it and that doesn't even include the draft pick but unless Murphy really suprises me, we will need a health O'Neal in the line-up.  I think Arroyo fixes the back up PG hole created by West being hurt.

[thirstyboots18]

I agree with Roy.

I did want to say that Krstic really surprised me with how well he fit in and how well he has played for the Celtics. He is a much better center than I anticipated (I thought he was just a throw in on the trade to make the numbers work).

 
Against the premier teams, though, I think we need a big strong enforcer for stretches.  Krstic is better than Perk in some ways (rebounding, scoring) but IMO is not the strong defensive presence.  Shaq better be close to 100%, because if he wants the ring he is going to have to put in the minutes to earn it.  Having lost an extra 10+ pounds should help with the foot/achilles problem.

I really don't expect much from JO...just hope his limited minutes are good productive ones.  I would love to be wrong about this one!  If it was truly bone on bone, I don't think they can fix that surgically.

A couple of the others can also fill in at center if necessary...not desirable, but possible. Shaq at 100% is the goal, and Krstic is a definite upgrade over Erden.

 

[billysan]

It seems to me that there are a few people here that are big Perk fans. I still count myself among them and I freely admit I would have said no to this trade if it was up to me. I see a smaller group that are very disappointed that Krstic is playing well, even if against less than stellar competition. This because they wanted the trade to look like a Danny Ainge mistake and so far nearly all the arguments against the trade are still weak. Winning does that.

I still believe that comparing these two players is waste of time, but some folks enjoy it I guess for the sake of arguing stats. The two players have different skill sets and different types of value to the team, that much is indisputable.

As several posters have stated, as long as we continue to win "does it really matter"? If a player is overrated or underrated, I guess for the sake of argument it may for some. I have favorite Celtic players that I dont want traded either. As we hear over and over, this is a business. I just want to see Danny continue to build the best Celtics roster he is capable of and keep an eye toward the future while he does. He has said that no one player is untradable if the right offer comes along.

It should be fun to read some of the posts here on the days following a Paul Pierce or KG trade if it ever happens. Funny how the argument always fades away as the wisdom of the deal becomes undeniable, because we win.

[LooseCannon]

Maybe people would have more fun arguing who they would keep, Krstic or Glen Davis, if they could keep one and replace the other with an above-average rebounder who would get a $3-5 million/year contract.on the open market.

[Roy H.]

I still believe that comparing these two players is waste of time, but some folks enjoy it I guess for the sake of arguing stats.

It's a more interesting argument than another "trade Rondo" thread, isn't it?  

Maybe people would have more fun arguing who they would keep, Krstic or Glen Davis, if they could keep one and replace the other with an above-average rebounder who would get a $3-5 million/year contract.on the open market.

Are they getting the same contract?  If so, I take Baby, especially if part of your argument is that we could sign a rebounding center for $3 - $5 million per year.

[Redz]

It seems to me that there are a few people here that are big Perk fans. I still count myself among them and I freely admit I would have said no to this trade if it was up to me. I see a smaller group that are very disappointed that Krstic is playing well, even if against less than stellar competition. This because they wanted the trade to look like a Danny Ainge mistake and so far nearly all the arguments against the trade are still weak. Winning does that.

I still believe that comparing these two players is waste of time, but some folks enjoy it I guess for the sake of arguing stats. The two players have different skill sets and different types of value to the team, that much is indisputable.

As several posters have stated, as long as we continue to win "does it really matter"? If a player is overrated or underrated, I guess for the sake of argument it may for some. I have favorite Celtic players that I dont want traded either. As we hear over and over, this is a business. I just want to see Danny continue to build the best Celtics roster he is capable of and keep an eye toward the future while he does. He has said that no one player is untradable if the right offer comes along.

It should be fun to read some of the posts here on the days following a Paul Pierce or KG trade if it ever happens. Funny how the argument always fades away as the wisdom of the deal becomes undeniable, because we win.

well said billysan

It's a really intriguing team at this point.  There are so many possibilities with so many new faces, and the unknown statuses of some key players.  But through it all we have 4 All Stars anchoring us.  

Perk was a good Celtic, no doubt, but Krstic will do - especially when we can already see flashes of what Jeff Green has to offer.  You've got to give something to get something.  Take away the emotional attachment to Perk and you have a deal that brought back a serviceable center (who is off to an unanticipated fast start) and the best bench player at his position in the league, with a rosy future - all for the price of two guys with bum knees who weren't going to part of this team next year, and were iffy healthwise this year.

[CoachBo]

Well said, Redz.

[snively]

Well said, Coach Bo.