Why so skeptical?

[Carhole]

I just don't believe much that comes out of the mouths of Danny and Doc. Don't get me wrong -- telling stories/lying is part of the business, but it is also the reason why I am skeptical. Here are a couple of examples:

Two years ago: We don't need to be reminded that KG was coming back every two weeks, until he never appeared again and they lost in the eastern conference semifinals.

This year: Shaq is going to miss a few games because of a few bumps and bruises becomes missing six weeks with an achilles tendon problem that apparently is still bothering him.

This year: JO is going to rest and aggressively exercise his knee for 4-5 weeks and we are confident he will be able to come back and play without any restrictions. Three weeks later he is undergoing surgery.

This year: Less than 24 hours ago, Doc is quoted as saying they are probably going to keep Chris Johnson and he goes on to say good things about the guy. 12 hours later, Carlos Arroyo is signed and Johnson is sent packing.

This year: Doc constantly has been wrong about when guys are going to come back from injuries.

So, in a nutshell, that is why I just don't buy what Danny has to say about Shaq and JO. And, this has nothing to do with the trade. Who knows, maybe Perk would never had made it back either. Bottom line, however, is that the Celtics are far from upfront about injuries and I just don't believe them.

Regarding the JO piece of your post. When that was all happening I heard Danny say that they were pushing for surgery but that JO wanted to try the rehab route. And that they respected that because going under the knife is always a huge decision for any professional athlete.

Ainge never said that this is how we want it and this is how it will play out. And then jumped to another course a couple weeks later. JO just exhausted his options and decided to get the surgery.....

I guess I just do not understand why these threads seem to be continuously popping up.

People have every right to be skeptical of everything that is said from anyone in power, is this news? Do we feel like our teams owners owe the fans complete honesty all of the time? How can you be completely honest about the healing of someone else's body? The said Delonte would probably miss 2 games last week now looks like 3 or 4. Oh my god, LIARS!

Whether he is telling the truth or not. Whether we are skeptical or not. Ainge has a job to do, which I assume from his track record he takes very seriously. Position the Boston Celtics to contend.

If he is lying about Shaq and JO and he made the Perk trade it will only end up making him look bad in the end. I assume people want to be successful so if a set of circumstances increasingly improves the chance their decisions will be successful those are most likely the circumstances they believe to be true moving forward.

[Shamrocker]

I agree with Vinnie, but let me add I care less about their doubletalk, and more about their unwillingness to deal with reality. All we heard from management is a complete failure to address the facts. In regards to JO and Shaq this organization seems to be living in a fantasy world. Everyone knows Shaq and JO have had injury troubles all year, its utterly naive for the organization to suggest come playoff time they'll suddenly come round, and stay healthy. Perhaps Danny honestly believes they will, but the facts don't support that conclusion. 

[Jon]

I think the biggest reason that DA isn't lying about this one is because he did trade Perk. 

Ainge isn't an idiot.  If he wasn't very sure that he'd have at least one of them, he wouldn't have made the trade. 

[amenhotep04]

I agree with Vinnie, but let me add I care less about their doubletalk, and more about their unwillingness to deal with reality. All we heard from management is a complete failure to address the facts. In regards to JO and Shaq this organization seems to be living in a fantasy world. Everyone knows Shaq and JO have had injury troubles all year, its utterly naive for the organization to suggest come playoff time they'll suddenly come round, and stay healthy. Perhaps Danny honestly believes they will, but the facts don't support that conclusion. 

The facts don't support something that is still over a month away? C'mon man. You can choose to not believe things, but you are making the same mistake you claim Danny and Doc are doing, that is, you are claiming something in the future and the future hasn't gotten here yet.

Regarding some of the other comments, someone already addressed the JO situation. What was missing there was a comment that Doc made saying that if he would have known he could get JO back in two months, he would have pushed JO to have the surgery earlier.

Delonte came back sooner than expected from his surgery. Perk came back earlier than expected from his surgery.

And regarding some other injuries, maybe it is as simple as when the team has depth, you can sit players a little longer than expected. Maybe when a trade deadline is looming, you don't reveal as much publicly about the overall health of some players (not on the market) because you need to be in a position of strength when negotiating for trades. And of course, maybe the coaches or Danny see that although a player is ready to play, if the team is winning, no need to bring someone back as fast, and let that player get to more of an ideal. And of course you're assuming the medical information on players is carved in stone and infallible.

These threads are comical now. One is more than enough, but people keep beating a dead horse.

[Shamrocker]

Geez, I wish I could agree with you, but I guess we see this issue a little differently. My concern isn't centered on conjecture, its centered on facts. The reality is JO and Shaq have been injured all year. Its downright irresponsible for them to suggest to themselves, or to us that JO and Shaq will be healthy when it matters.

[Eja117]

I never expect straightforwardness from any professional sports front office.  Its all about spin.  I've come to accept it. 

You know who's honest?  The Patriots.

BB would just be like "He'll be back when he's back. We hope he gets back soon. It is what it is."

What is so hard about that? 

[misha]

I have confidence that they'll be available to us for the playoffs assuming a new injury doesn't happen. I'm not confident in the time-table they have in place for their return, I don't think anyone is... so I don't know why hold it against them when they give an opinion on their most recent information (he looked good today, so maybe next week. Today it looked like x was bothering him so we might push it back a little)... that sort of thing.

This.

[Eja117]

This year: Less than 24 hours ago, Doc is quoted as saying they are probably going to keep Chris Johnson and he goes on to say good things about the guy. 12 hours later, Carlos Arroyo is signed and Johnson is sent packing.

Number one scary thing for a Celtic to hear from Danny Ainge.  "We think he's a good player and we hope he's here for a while"

But it's not dishonesty or anything. That's just spin. All GMs do it.

[Mike-Dub]

I never expect straightforwardness from any professional sports front office.  Its all about spin.  I've come to accept it. 

You know who's honest?  The Patriots.

BB would just be like "He'll be back when he's back. We hope he gets back soon. It is what it is."

What is so hard about that? 

You're joking about BB being honest right?  Right? 

[Eja117]

I never expect straightforwardness from any professional sports front office.  Its all about spin.  I've come to accept it. 

You know who's honest?  The Patriots.

BB would just be like "He'll be back when he's back. We hope he gets back soon. It is what it is."

What is so hard about that? 

You're joking about BB being honest right?  Right? 

When players are in the doghouse with BB we know it way in advance.  When he likes a player we know it.

When has BB been as dishonest as Danny?

[BballTim]

I just don't believe much that comes out of the mouths of Danny and Doc. Don't get me wrong -- telling stories/lying is part of the business, but it is also the reason why I am skeptical. Here are a couple of examples:

Two years ago: We don't need to be reminded that KG was coming back every two weeks, until he never appeared again and they lost in the eastern conference semifinals.

This year: Shaq is going to miss a few games because of a few bumps and bruises becomes missing six weeks with an achilles tendon problem that apparently is still bothering him.

This year: JO is going to rest and aggressively exercise his knee for 4-5 weeks and we are confident he will be able to come back and play without any restrictions. Three weeks later he is undergoing surgery.

This year: Less than 24 hours ago, Doc is quoted as saying they are probably going to keep Chris Johnson and he goes on to say good things about the guy. 12 hours later, Carlos Arroyo is signed and Johnson is sent packing.

This year: Doc constantly has been wrong about when guys are going to come back from injuries.

So, in a nutshell, that is why I just don't buy what Danny has to say about Shaq and JO. And, this has nothing to do with the trade. Who knows, maybe Perk would never had made it back either. Bottom line, however, is that the Celtics are far from upfront about injuries and I just don't believe them.

  What's your solution to the problem? That they never say anything at all? When Delonte sprains his ankle they should say "We can't say with absolute certainty that Delonte will be back in the lineup at any point this year"? Or that they go the other route: "Sorry, Shaq. I know that another week or so of rest would improve your situation but I told that reporters that you'd be back in 2 weeks or so. You're starting tonight".

[BballTim]

Why would they lie about Shaq and JO?

Its been a known fact for the past couple of seasons that JO and Shaq and injury prone and will miss long stretches of the regular season.

Well, does it make a huge difference if they're lying, or just wrong a lot?  Neither gives fans a lot of confidence that they're accurate when talking about Shaq and JO coming back.

Why think them accurate though? It's quite clear that a lot of speculating is going on, even they admit it. "Well, I don't know maybe next week".

On that regard, the Spurs are also liars considering that Parker just returned. What about those Thunder playing Durant when no one knew? [dang] fantasy team took a hit since I benched him.

I didn't say they were necessarily liars.  However, I do agree with vinnie that there's no reason to be particularly confident in what Danny and Doc say about injuries.  Since Danny used Shaq's health and presence in the lineup as a major selling point for the Perk trade, I understand why this topic has sprung up a couple times.

  So if Shaq and JO and Perk were all unhealthy and Danny made the trade to get at least one healthy center on the team you'd want him to say that? Would you still feel that way if the other contenders made a much harder push for Murphy after hearing this to keep us from adding any size to the roster?

[vinnie]

When you say a guy is going to be out a couple of games, as they did with Shaq, it is comical when 6 weeks later he still is not back. Obviously a couple of games here or there is not a big deal, but a month? I agree with the Belichick route -- just don't give any timetable and say he will be back when he is healthy. There have already been two different dates that Doc said Shaq was going to be back during this injury and he has been back for neither of them.

As for the JO thing, yes, the Celts were pushing him to have surgery early in the year and he refused, but Danny did say that rest and exercise was definitely the right way to go to get the knee better and that he would be able to play without any limitations. He also said the Celtics medical staff went along with this strategy.

I, like others, believe it is foolhardy to depend on Shaq and JO for the playoffs, but we won't know until the playoffs begin.

[barefacedmonk]

Shaq is starting to worry me a bit...I hope he is back soon.

[droponov]

I think the biggest reason that DA isn't lying about this one is because he did trade Perk. 

Ainge isn't an idiot.  If he wasn't very sure that he'd have at least one of them, he wouldn't have made the trade. 

Agreed.