Danny. It's not the trade. It's the lying. And the lying has got to stop. Please

[tyrone biggums]

Perk is out for a month, Nate is out probably for the rest of the season...please enough with the Perkins threads!!! We get it, you hate the trade Perkins looked sad in the pictures, horrible! Could trading Perkins and Nate actually give us our best shot at banner 18? Neither will be ready until the playoffs really, even then who would our center have been? Erden? I'm tired of posters acting as if the Celtics gave up the next great prospect for peanuts. I'm going to say this one time, and one time only. Would you as a GM make this trade?

You get: Troy Murphy, Kristic, Jeff Green and a stiff from New Orleans

Give: Perkins, Nate (Both hurt) Erdin and Harangody.

If you are a contender you make that deal every day, improves rebounding and defense on the wing. The only thing that you might lose is point guard depth, which Nate wasn't that good at anyways. Do the numbers, Murphy up until this year was getting a averaging a double double or close to it every year. Perk has never done this, and while hes the physical presence that this team needs, KG is the real catalyst for the defense.

[barefacedmonk]

OP, when will you stop exaggerating and defaming the guy who just secured us banner 18?

We are a strong contender..but we haven't secured anything yet. It's only March.

[guava_wrench]

I agree with Roy (once again) . I have never liked Danny much...even when we won the title.... I think he threw a "hail Mary" pass in finally pulling off a trade that brought in Ray and finally KG (with the help of  a kindMcHale). Had he not thrown this "hail mary" pass at almost the end of his "5 year plan" he was close to being run out of town on a rail.

I think he is good scout for young talent and that's about it. I am glad he pulled of the Ray Allen KG stuff and that Banner 17 game to Boston, but I don't drink his juice. He is not honest, but he is not alone...I just think he is kind of snake in how he goes about his GM business, and sometimes he is a lucky snake........If he gets lucky and/or helps us bring # 18 then great, but I still won't be a big fan....

However I don't personally know Danny and in the end what I think of Danny matters not....I just love the Celtics....and want to win Banner #18.....I just hope Danny earns his paycheck

Hail Mary is one way to look at it.

Another way to look at it is that he had the guts to do what Chicago didn't a few years ago when then couldn't turn the corner. Sure, that netted them Rose and it looks like it will work out, but if they picked Beasley they would still just be a mediocre team that never capitalized on their accumulated talent.

Ainge had the guts to do bold moves and that got us banner 17. This season he did another bold move. Sometimes bold moves will fail, but stagnation often just leads to mediocrity.

On a side note, I think many here would agree with this sentiment: I don't want a GM who is a nice guy. I want someone who can make difficult business decisions and put the fate of the franchise ahead of making people like him.

Look at the embarrassing comments Steve Jobs makes at times, such as pretending there was something to get excited about with the iPhone 4. Sometimes you need to be a little less genuine to protect the interests of the business you lead.

[EDWARDO]

Wait... NONE of the 5 examples are lies! You combed through all of his public comments for "lies" and you couldn't come up with any?!? And you call him a liar. Bizarre. Truly bizarre.

[Master Po]

Well.....I think you can be tough, savvy and very mindful of what you say (and don't say) without being a liar....

and Danny Ainge could care less whether people like him (that goes without saying) -it's not his job to be liked....but to be a compete GM, man and a success you have to be respected....by your peers and players around the league....let's hope he has it.

[jasail]

All GMs lie, part of the business.  All GMs spin, also part of the business. Is Danny overly shrewd and a snake?  Absolutely, but that is what makes him a top GM.  

And I look at his cumulative body of work and what he has done has been impressive. He accumulated assets, made a couple bizarre but strategic trades (i.e. Ratliff), took some calculated risks (trading the farm but keeping KP and Rondo) and has drafted well during the middle/end of the first round.

His biggest mistake was not compiling enough assets on the bench for the 2008-2009 run, which has been somewhat overlooked because KG was injured but was clearly that teams biggest flaw.  

[Celtics4ever]

It's not the lying that has to stop but the crying about the lying and whinning about the trade.  Danny Ainge doesn't care what any fan thinks.  Not I not you, sorry to say.  His job is to run the team and put the best team he can out there or get you guys to like him.  The team today is vastly more talented than the team a week ago.   He is a businessman, he is vying for any edge he can get I bet.   I want a cuthroat guy in charge of running my team not Abe Lincoln.  This is the NBA not a Geico Commercial.

Do you expect Bill Belichik to start being honest on who is playing? This is sports, you get whatever edge you can without cheating as  misinformation is part of the game.   I always looked for ankle and knee braces when I played and I drove hard at that side.  You take whatever edge you can.

I think he was right about the Green comment folks.   There seems to be a consensus that Perk was all pro defensive team but he was not folks.   Green is a better athlete and he has potential to grow into a very good athlete.  Perk has some brute strength but he is not much of an athlete.  He is not fast nor can he jump very high.  Green isn't off the charts but he is not chopped liver either.  He is above average and has great size at the three.  I think Perk will take a step backwards without KG.  I know many here think he was the rock of our defense but we have been ok without him so far.  We did quite well in fact, we had a better record without him this year.  He said could in his statement.   I think Perk lost a step.  The Celts are stat crazy in tracking stats.  They are going to know opposing centers were averaging 15 PPG the last six games.  I thought when I watched him too after the come back that he had lost some lateral mobility.

Bottom is grow up, this is adult sports and adults lie.  This isn't Mr Rodgers Neighborhood or the Ten Commandments.  Go gather for your group hug now  Danny doesn't care if you like him or not as long as we are winning.  If trading fan favorite Perk didn't prove that to you nothing will.   I love the team and I don't dislike Danny.  He is a huge improvement over Chris Wallace and Pitino.  Best GM we have had since Jan Volk.

[Roy H.]

I still scratch my head on the Danny was lying about KG line they throw around. The excuse people give is that they wanted to sell tickets... really? Do you think the Celtics will have trouble selling tickets without KG? I don't envision it.

Considering that they held off KG from having surgery until the playoffs were over automatically already tells me that they were more honest than dishonest with the injury.

Wyc confirmed the team lied.  His words:

We were being Belichickian . . .

Grousbeck said last week that a heavy dose of gamesmanship went into the trickle of information - or misinformation - regarding Garnett. It might have paid a small playoff dividend to leave opponents - and the media - wondering whether Garnett was coming back, even when the team apparently knew better. . . .

The truth, according to Grousbeck, is the team’s medical staff knew exactly what it would find during the operation on Garnett’s knee last week.

Though Danny Ainge, the executive director of basketball operations, said last week that surgeons “did not have to touch” the tendon during arthroscopic surgery, the inflamed muscle indeed was caused by the bone spur, according to Grousbeck.

Though everyone from Ainge to Doc Rivers intimated during the playoffs that the two knee issues may not be related - that the inflamed tendon somehow was independent of the bone spur - the Celtics managing partner said everyone knew the truth.

“There was no mystery about the problem,” he said. “The only mystery was how (Garnett) was going to be able to do something on it. We just didn’t feel like sharing that with the media at the time.

“It was just a matter of declining to comment on it. I mean, he did come back to play four (regular-season) games, and I believe that he might have tried to play against Cleveland if we had made it that far.

“But this all threw our opponents into some confusion about what was happening.”

In other words, Doc and Danny lied, in an effort to mislead opponents.  Of course, in this specific instance it was a pretty stupid set of lies, since it harmed fan expectations a whole heck of a lot more than it provided any on court benefit.  However, a lot of times it's important for a GM to be "strategically deceptive"; a perfectly candid GM would be disastrous. 

Again, though, it cracks me up that some people do think Danny is candid and honest.  I think Danny is as honest as the average politician. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

I still scratch my head on the Danny was lying about KG line they throw around. The excuse people give is that they wanted to sell tickets... really? Do you think the Celtics will have trouble selling tickets without KG? I don't envision it.

Considering that they held off KG from having surgery until the playoffs were over automatically already tells me that they were more honest than dishonest with the injury.

Wyc confirmed the team lied.  His words:

We were being Belichickian . . .

Grousbeck said last week that a heavy dose of gamesmanship went into the trickle of information - or misinformation - regarding Garnett. It might have paid a small playoff dividend to leave opponents - and the media - wondering whether Garnett was coming back, even when the team apparently knew better. . . .

The truth, according to Grousbeck, is the team’s medical staff knew exactly what it would find during the operation on Garnett’s knee last week.

Though Danny Ainge, the executive director of basketball operations, said last week that surgeons “did not have to touch” the tendon during arthroscopic surgery, the inflamed muscle indeed was caused by the bone spur, according to Grousbeck.

Though everyone from Ainge to Doc Rivers intimated during the playoffs that the two knee issues may not be related - that the inflamed tendon somehow was independent of the bone spur - the Celtics managing partner said everyone knew the truth.

“There was no mystery about the problem,” he said. “The only mystery was how (Garnett) was going to be able to do something on it. We just didn’t feel like sharing that with the media at the time.

“It was just a matter of declining to comment on it. I mean, he did come back to play four (regular-season) games, and I believe that he might have tried to play against Cleveland if we had made it that far.

“But this all threw our opponents into some confusion about what was happening.”

In other words, Doc and Danny lied, in an effort to mislead opponents.  Of course, in this specific instance it was a pretty stupid set of lies, since it harmed fan expectations a whole heck of a lot more than it provided any on court benefit.  However, a lot of times it's important for a GM to lie; a perfectly candid GM would be a disastrous.

One thing is to lie during the playoffs about keeping it vague if he was going to play that day or not. Remember, everyone was confused, even our opponents.

It's another to lie about the injury, what was the injury, and the extent of the injury.

In all, I think you guys are stretching it a bit with the "HE LIED TO US!" routine.

And how do you know he's not lying about being Belichickian? He probably thought he was being witty.

[Master Po]

I am really getting tired of being told to "grow up" or stop "whining".....The Holier than thou" attitude is almost too much to take...It's March ...we don't yet about how good the trade will be and we certainly can discuss Danny Ainge's character, his skills AS A GM WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THIS FORUM

[Big_Matt34]

I am really getting tired of being told to "grow up" or stop "whining".....The Holier than thou" attitude is almost too much to take...It's March ...we don't yet about how good the trade will be and we certainly can discuss Danny Ainge's character, his skills AS A GM WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THIS FORUM

Po, you speak the truth, and i love you.

[tenn_smoothie]

I agree with Roy (once again) . I have never liked Danny much...even when we won the title.... I think he threw a "hail Mary" pass in finally pulling off a trade that brought in Ray and finally KG (with the help of  a kindMcHale). Had he not thrown this "hail mary" pass at almost the end of his "5 year plan" he was close to being run out of town on a rail.

I think he is good scout for young talent and that's about it. I am glad he pulled of the Ray Allen KG stuff and that Banner 17 game to Boston, but I don't drink his juice. He is not honest, but he is not alone...I just think he is kind of snake in how he goes about his GM business, and sometimes he is a lucky snake........If he gets lucky and/or helps us bring # 18 then great, but I still won't be a big fan....

this is the truth about Danny that worries me most. before the trades for Ray and KG, Ainge was impatient and trade happy - and though some of his draft picks have worked out brilliantly,  hardly any of his pre-2007 trades worked out and he was quick to pull the trigger again before they even had a chance to pay dividends.

that period of time saw the Celtics change their team personality with every new move - talk about a team with no identity - that was Danny's Celtics before KG..... and Po is correct that without KG, Danny Boy would be long gone by now.

many of Ainge's post-2008-title moves have been attempts to make up for his major screw-up of not keeping james posey in green. how important does that extra year Posey wanted look now ? good chance we'd be defending champs right now if Posey was still in Boston.


another big concern i have now is, are the Celts now going to lose their defensive identity that has set them apart from every other contender the past four seasons - they look better offensively (which is a very good thing given how hard they have to work for baskets at times) but they also look a bit porous on defense right now. time will tell.


and my heart is still hurting for Perk these days.

[BballTim]

many of Ainge's post-2008-title moves have been attempts to make up for his major screw-up of not keeping james posey in green. how important does that extra year Posey wanted look now ? good chance we'd be defending champs right now if Posey was still in Boston.

  Posey wasn't worth the money he was getting last year and he's still under contract for more money next year. That signing was a disaster, and Danny was smart to avoid it. It's not a stretch to say that Posey didn't look much (if any) better than Scal when we played them last year.

[Donoghus]

many of Ainge's post-2008-title moves have been attempts to make up for his major screw-up of not keeping james posey in green. how important does that extra year Posey wanted look now ? good chance we'd be defending champs right now if Posey was still in Boston.

  Posey wasn't worth the money he was getting last year and he's still under contract for more money next year. That signing was a disaster, and Danny was smart to avoid it. It's not a stretch to say that Posey didn't look much (if any) better than Scal when we played them last year.

I agree.  Letting Posey walk was the right move.

It wasn't years 1 & 2 that concerned many people, it was the latter years and the money tied up in Posey that many, including myself, felt was reason enough to let him walk given the expectation that his skills were going to diminish.

[More Banners]

many of Ainge's post-2008-title moves have been attempts to make up for his major screw-up of not keeping james posey in green. how important does that extra year Posey wanted look now ? good chance we'd be defending champs right now if Posey was still in Boston.

  Posey wasn't worth the money he was getting last year and he's still under contract for more money next year. That signing was a disaster, and Danny was smart to avoid it. It's not a stretch to say that Posey didn't look much (if any) better than Scal when we played them last year.

And I doubt Perk will be worth what he'll be making, either.

I'd say that Danny learned quite a bit from those early moves...to never again get stuck in "the abyss" as he is reported to have said, with big contracts for players that couldn't deliver (like the present Pistons).  The reluctance for long contracts is perhaps the biggest example of a lesson from that era.