Author Topic: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA  (Read 6054 times)

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Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« on: March 04, 2011, 02:22:09 PM »

Offline rutzan

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and not just because of perk/nrob/erden/daniels injuries...i think it is fairly well acknowledged DA is an excellent talent evaluator....gm's may think why does he want my guy and not his own...if you look back DA always seems to come out on top...just a few off the top my head...

payton/lakers...
jiriwelsch/cavs...
ratliff/telfair/blazers...which we could have actually got roy but it still got us kg
nrob/thunder...i'm only pointing this out for the fact it saved DA from a bad 2 yr contract...not for injuries...

i'm sure there are others...he has a knack of pawning his mistakes on other teams by combining them with other assets, players, picks, etc...in my book...DA is very shrewd...or do teams still deal with him based on the transaction itself not being scared of DA's tendency to come out smelling like a rose...

Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 02:37:33 PM »

Offline Interceptor

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I don't see why they would... trades can be a net positive for everyone in the transaction, just like this Perk deal.  A GM would have to lack a lot of confidence in their own abilities/research to be "afraid" of Ainge, I think.

Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 02:38:34 PM »

Offline Q_FBE

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Some trades work out great - (Ray Allen and KG).....

Others have backfired miserably (Walker for Jiri Welsch and Raef LaFrentz).

I say no they won't be. Oklahoma did accept Perkins and are paying him handsomely to block shots, rebound, and make life miserable for WC rival big men. I'll bet Dewey Howard was delighted to see KP shipped westward because that is his nemesis. Maybe, just maybe, Dewey will come up to Boston in the future.
 
I think this latest trade with Oklahoma will work out for both teams.
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Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2011, 02:51:10 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Ainge is already pretty notorious for calling up other GMs proposing lopsided deals.

Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2011, 02:53:06 PM »

Offline rutzan

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see...you just made my point...

On February 24, 2005,
Welsch was traded to the Cleveland Cavaliers for a future 2007 first-round draft pick.

On June 28, 2005,
Welsch was traded by the Cavs to the Milwaukee Bucks for a 2006 second round draft pick.

he takes his own mistakes and turns them around...sometimes very quickly...see what happened to welsch's value in just 4 months...
and that's if you thought trading walker was a bad move which i still think is for debate...walker never did much after he left us...i know people will say he played for the heat in 2006...but DA saw the handwriting on the wall and tried to get rid of walker while his value was high...

does anybody know what DA did with that 2007 pick...

Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 02:59:54 PM »

Offline 35Lewis

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Well the recent trade wasn't a bad trade for OKC because they would have entered the offseason with very little money to pursue free agents.  With the Thunder trying hard to build a championship caliber team they knew they had to make a trade for a young center that they would be able to resign and Perk became available.  They were willing to eat Nate's contract to be able to lock down Perk now especially considering they most likely won't have to pay for most of the second year due to a potential lockout.

I still think it's a good trade for us but it wasn't as if the Thunder were going to be able to sign a game changing center in the offseason had they passed on this deal.

Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 03:02:12 PM »

Offline Cman

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I don't see why they would... trades can be a net positive for everyone in the transaction, just like this Perk deal.  A GM would have to lack a lot of confidence in their own abilities/research to be "afraid" of Ainge, I think.

First off, I like the way the OP is thinking (long term about ramifications of the most recent trade on future trades).  That said, I agree with the above that in most cases - the best cases - trades are Win-Win.  The Thunder had less use for Jeff Green, and had a need for an experienced low post threat like Perkins.  The Cs had less of a need for Perkins (given Shaq) and more of a need for a backup SF (given Daniels' injury).  I think both teams came out pretty nicely.
Celtics fan for life.

Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 03:04:11 PM »

Offline rutzan

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DA does have a knack for trading high...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/walkean02.html

see antoine's stats here...he steadily decreased after he left us...
the only year he a little resurgence was with us and atl 2 yrs later...

Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 03:13:24 PM »

Offline clover

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Ainge is already pretty notorious for calling up other GMs proposing lopsided deals.

Can you blame him?  He's got some to go for them!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 04:47:01 PM by clover »

Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 03:26:39 PM »

Offline aliendave

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does anybody know what DA did with that 2007 pick...

Traded to Phoenix in the Rondo deal. Phoenix used the pick for Rudy Fernandez and then traded him to Portland for cash.

Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 03:45:18 PM »

Offline rutzan

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well...there you go...that rondo deal says it all...DA doesn't just make moves...he parlays his own moves including some past mistakes and turns them into gold...think about this...have the sox or pats been able to turn around their mistakes and packgage them off to someone else...and i don't just mean getting rid of a player like nomar or moss......in my book...DA is a genius with vision...he has vision that most other gm's don't have...

Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 03:53:02 PM »

Offline rutzan

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can anbody clarify what we got for the welsch pick from cle...was it Rondo...

HOW ACQUIRED: Draft rights acquired from Phoenix along with Brian Grant and cash considerations in exchange for a future first round pick on June 28, 2006.

Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 03:55:34 PM »

Online Donoghus

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No, they won't be afraid to deal with him.

If anything, GMs will be talking to him more knowing that he's willing to go out on limbs and is an active mover out there.

A couple of GMs might be fearful of getting ripped off and will probably be hesistant and, perhaps, unwilling but I think that would be an extremely small minority.  And that's under the assumption that we've actually ripped someone off here which I think has yet to be seen.


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Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 04:02:09 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Ainge has consistently understood that trades have two components: the exchange of talent, and the exchange of flexibility. Like other good GMs, he understands that gaining flexibility can be as important as gaining talent. (The Telfair/Ratliff move is exhibit A).

The recent trade gives us much more flexibility. We can keep Krstic or trade him, and do the same with Green. Neither player has a long-term contract. We also have a valuable pick that probably can be packaged for a rotation player all by itself.

With Perkins we were looking at a real dilemma: if we had kept Perk and ended up going deep into the playoffs this summer, there would be tremendous pressure to keep Perk, and his price would get bid up by any number of other suitors. We might have ended up boxed into paying him star center money, when he's really just a solid starting-level player.

We won't face that pressure with Krstic and Green.

What's more, this actually gives us considerably more flexibility with Baby. Keeping him is less critical with Green in the fold.

I don't think that this means Ainge won't be able to find trade partners - he just needs to deal with people who value talent more than flexibility. A GM like Presti should value talent right now, since he has two max guys who will be there long-term, and that dramatically reduces how much flexibility he has going forward. There are plenty of other GMs in that position.

Danny understands that right now we are poised to have tremendous flexibility once KG and Ray come off the books, so he didn't want to squander that flexibility now. The Perkins move looks very good in that light.

Re: Will other GM's be afraid to deal with DA
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 04:13:28 PM »

Offline rutzan

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wow...i never have seen someone put it so concisely...it will always boil down to talent and flexibility...so true...awesome!