Danny: "Jeff Green could be a better defender than Perk Right Now and in future"

[Chris]

This was a throwaway/spin comment by Danny.  No need to make so much out of it. 

Green can be a very strong defender, but there just is no point comparing him to Perkins, because they bring such different things to the table. 

[BballTim]

Not this season. Howard has improved a lot. He put some sweet moves on Perk last time.

Howard wasn´t so impressive when Big Baby was guarding him.

I would like to see some stats that back up this assertion.

  Again, checking the stats for our last Orlando game, Dwight shot 5-7 with 3 made free throws in the 12 minutes without Perk, and 5-13 with 5 made free throws in his 33 minutes against Perk.

[Chris]

Not this season. Howard has improved a lot. He put some sweet moves on Perk last time.

Howard wasn´t so impressive when Big Baby was guarding him.

I would like to see some stats that back up this assertion.

  Again, checking the stats for our last Orlando game, Dwight shot 5-7 with 3 made free throws in the 12 minutes without Perk, and 5-13 with 5 made free throws in his 33 minutes against Perk.

Yeah, I think there is no doubt that Perk is the best Howard defender in the league, and there is no one really close.

The question is, does your ability to defend one player (who is not even on a team that is the biggest threat for the C's) mean more than a stronger offense against many teams, as well as stronger defense against other perimeter players on teams like Miami, LA, and San Antonio?

[Casperian]

Not this season. Howard has improved a lot. He put some sweet moves on Perk last time.

Howard wasn´t so impressive when Big Baby was guarding him.

I would like to see some stats that back up this assertion.

And I would like to spend the night with Megan Fox. Life is hard.

Do you remember the articles where Baby made fun of Howard and called him a finesse player? You know, those where Doc praised Baby for his defense on Howard?

If not, I´m certainly not wasting my time looking up meaningless stats so that you believe me.

[Donoghus]

Not this season. Howard has improved a lot. He put some sweet moves on Perk last time.

Howard wasn´t so impressive when Big Baby was guarding him.

I would like to see some stats that back up this assertion.

  Again, checking the stats for our last Orlando game, Dwight shot 5-7 with 3 made free throws in the 12 minutes without Perk, and 5-13 with 5 made free throws in his 33 minutes against Perk.

Yeah, I think there is no doubt that Perk is the best Howard defender in the league, and there is no one really close.

The question is, does your ability to defend one player (who is not even on a team that is the biggest threat for the C's) mean more than a stronger offense against many teams, as well as stronger defense against other perimeter players on teams like Miami, LA, and San Antonio?

IMO, no. 

Personally, I think people are getting too hung up on the Dwight Howard matchup and putting way too much weight into it.  They'll be dozens & dozens of matchups down the road.  Not just that one. 

[Fafnir]

Not this season. Howard has improved a lot. He put some sweet moves on Perk last time.

Howard wasn´t so impressive when Big Baby was guarding him.

I would like to see some stats that back up this assertion.

And I would like to spend the night with Megan Fox. Life is hard.
Do you remember the articles where Baby made fun of Howard and called him a finesse player? You know, those where Doc praised Baby for his defense on Howard?

If not, I´m certainly not wasting my time looking up meaningless stats so that you believe me.

If you're going to insult other posters when they ask you to back up your statements, then you'll quickly find you will have plenty of extra time since you won't be on CB for a while. You can say "Look at Doc's praise of BBD after the last Orlando Game" without the extras

[Fafnir]

Not this season. Howard has improved a lot. He put some sweet moves on Perk last time.

Howard wasn´t so impressive when Big Baby was guarding him.

I would like to see some stats that back up this assertion.

  Again, checking the stats for our last Orlando game, Dwight shot 5-7 with 3 made free throws in the 12 minutes without Perk, and 5-13 with 5 made free throws in his 33 minutes against Perk.

Yeah, I think there is no doubt that Perk is the best Howard defender in the league, and there is no one really close.

The question is, does your ability to defend one player (who is not even on a team that is the biggest threat for the C's) mean more than a stronger offense against many teams, as well as stronger defense against other perimeter players on teams like Miami, LA, and San Antonio?

IMO, no. 

Personally, I think people are getting too hung up on the Dwight Howard matchup and putting way too much weight into it.  They'll be dozens & dozens of matchups down the road.  Not just that one. 

Honestly how we score on Orlando will determine the series more than how well we defend Howard. When the Magic beat the C's its typically because they lock us down with Howard's rebounding and help defense.

[BballTim]

Not this season. Howard has improved a lot. He put some sweet moves on Perk last time.

Howard wasn´t so impressive when Big Baby was guarding him.

I would like to see some stats that back up this assertion.

  Again, checking the stats for our last Orlando game, Dwight shot 5-7 with 3 made free throws in the 12 minutes without Perk, and 5-13 with 5 made free throws in his 33 minutes against Perk.

Yeah, I think there is no doubt that Perk is the best Howard defender in the league, and there is no one really close.

The question is, does your ability to defend one player (who is not even on a team that is the biggest threat for the C's) mean more than a stronger offense against many teams, as well as stronger defense against other perimeter players on teams like Miami, LA, and San Antonio?

  Perk can't defend good perimeter bigs very well but he's not really a one trick pony. He guards everyone in the paint well, not just Howard. Does that mean that the trade was a bad idea? Not necessarily. Does it mean that improvements in our offense can't be greater than any letdown in our defense? No. But liking the trade or thinking that Perk is a detriment to our offense doesn't mean that he's a pedestrian defender.

[Chris]

Not this season. Howard has improved a lot. He put some sweet moves on Perk last time.

Howard wasn´t so impressive when Big Baby was guarding him.

I would like to see some stats that back up this assertion.

  Again, checking the stats for our last Orlando game, Dwight shot 5-7 with 3 made free throws in the 12 minutes without Perk, and 5-13 with 5 made free throws in his 33 minutes against Perk.

Yeah, I think there is no doubt that Perk is the best Howard defender in the league, and there is no one really close.

The question is, does your ability to defend one player (who is not even on a team that is the biggest threat for the C's) mean more than a stronger offense against many teams, as well as stronger defense against other perimeter players on teams like Miami, LA, and San Antonio?

IMO, no. 

Personally, I think people are getting too hung up on the Dwight Howard matchup and putting way too much weight into it.  They'll be dozens & dozens of matchups down the road.  Not just that one. 

Exactly.  Perkins is a great low post defender, and he can come close to shutting down the best big man in the game.  But he also gets killed by more skilled big men like Bogut, and to a lesser extent, Bynum.  

Really, there just are no can't miss defenders in the league right now.  All of them have some holes in their game, and can be exploited by certain matchups, and that makes it so tough to put so much value into that one skill.  

That is why I would much rather have the guy who may not have that 1 dominant skill, but can positively affect the game in multiple ways.

[Chris]

But liking the trade or thinking that Perk is a detriment to our offense doesn't mean that he's a pedestrian defender.

Let me just be 100% clear that I do not think Perk is a pedestrian defender.  He is a tremendous defensive player.  I just don't think he is Bill Russell, or even Ben Wallace.  He is a guy who is an average defender against certain guys, and a great defender against other guys.  But he is not a franchise changing defender who can completely dominate a game on that end of the court night in and night out.

[Fafnir]

Really, there just are no can't miss defenders in the league right now.  All of them have some holes in their game, and can be exploited by certain matchups, and that makes it so tough to put so much value into that one skill.  

I think LeBron/Howard are can't miss defenders relative to their position, when they're engaged they certainly are.

KG/Duncan were too, though now they're too old to be as great. (Remember KG taking on a healthy Yao and dominating?)

[Casperian]

Not this season. Howard has improved a lot. He put some sweet moves on Perk last time.

Howard wasn´t so impressive when Big Baby was guarding him.

I would like to see some stats that back up this assertion.

And I would like to spend the night with Megan Fox. Life is hard.
Do you remember the articles where Baby made fun of Howard and called him a finesse player? You know, those where Doc praised Baby for his defense on Howard?

If not, I´m certainly not wasting my time looking up meaningless stats so that you believe me.

If you're going to insult other posters when they ask you to back up your statements, then you'll quickly find you will have plenty of extra time since you won't be on CB for a while. You can say "Look at Doc's praise of BBD after the last Orlando Game" without the extras

Where did I insult him? I said that I don´t believe in petty statistics to back up what everyone in the club and the media said, that Baby can defend Howard.

I think you´re the one who´s insulting me, here. How about an apology, faf?

Ok so Im so p---ed off about what I consider completely idiotic commentary from frequent well known posters here who have taken their, imho, ignorance to a whole new level on the perk trade, taking an absurdly anti stance, and baboozling and intimidating other posters with the fact that they are management here etc, Ive consoled myself knowing the trade was great and then I found this:

*Waits for fafnir to abuse his mod powers to edit this post and ban me and prove wahz right*

[Chris]

Really, there just are no can't miss defenders in the league right now.  All of them have some holes in their game, and can be exploited by certain matchups, and that makes it so tough to put so much value into that one skill.  

I think LeBron/Howard are can't miss defenders relative to their position, when they're engaged they certainly are.

KG/Duncan were too, though now they're too old to be as great. (Remember KG taking on a healthy Yao and dominating?)

I agree that KG and Duncan were in their prime.  So was Ben Wallace and Ron Artest. 

Right now, I think you have Lebron, who sometimes picks and chooses when he will play defense.  You have Howard, who can be that dominant defender, but can get a little too into posing for the cameras at times, rather than making the smart defensive play.  And then you have some young guys like Sefolosha, Afflalo, and a few others who are still getting their feet wet, but could turn into great defenders.

(and I am personally leaving Rondo out of the discussion, because he has been discussed ad nauseum on this site...)

[droponov]

Not this season. Howard has improved a lot. He put some sweet moves on Perk last time.

Howard wasn´t so impressive when Big Baby was guarding him.

I would like to see some stats that back up this assertion.

  Again, checking the stats for our last Orlando game, Dwight shot 5-7 with 3 made free throws in the 12 minutes without Perk, and 5-13 with 5 made free throws in his 33 minutes against Perk.

Yeah, I think there is no doubt that Perk is the best Howard defender in the league, and there is no one really close.

The question is, does your ability to defend one player (who is not even on a team that is the biggest threat for the C's) mean more than a stronger offense against many teams, as well as stronger defense against other perimeter players on teams like Miami, LA, and San Antonio?

Where has this absurd idea that Perkins is useful because of his ability to defend one player come from? How the heck such absurd myths develop?

Perkins is a strong low post defender regardless of who he is defending. Pretty much every player in the league with a significant sample has lower points per play in post-ups against Perkins than his average and frequently by very large margins. Plus, he was the Celtics best rebounder and shot-blocker. He's also a good pick'n'roll defender and a good help defender. He isn't a liability hedging on ballhandlers or in transition, as other strong low post defenders frequently are. His contributions on the defensive end are above average in every aspect.

Actually, I think that Perkins is more valuable against the Los Angeles Lakers than against Orlando.

[Fafnir]

I didn't insult you Casperian, I issued you a warning based on two sarcastic comments directed towards another posters question to your viewpoint.

If you want to discuss it further we can do it in PMs, but either way those sort of comments are not going to be okay. Nor is outright baiting of a moderator when a warning is issued