How about them Memphis Grizzly Bears?

[Fafnir]

Perkins
Brook Lopez
Nene
Duncan
Bogut
Horford (he's plays C most of the time just like Duncan)
Howard
Bynum
Noah
Chandler
Okafor
Pau Gasol (he also plays a lot of C but I understand if you don't count him)
Amar'e (see above)

Similar Players
Gortat
Dalmbert (if he's kept from taking shots)
Bargs
Hibbert

[KCattheStripe]

Perkins
Brook Lopez
Nene
Duncan
Bogut
Horford (he's plays C most of the time just like Duncan)
Howard
Bynum
Noah
Chandler
Okafor
Pau Gasol (he also plays a lot of C but I understand if you don't count him)
Amar'e (see above)

Similar Players
Gortat
Dalmbert (if he's kept from taking shots)
Bargs
Hibbert

Wow, you need to watch more Grizzlies games if you think Gortat, Bargs, Dalembert and Hibbert are on Gasol's level.

[Who]

Mid first round talent that had produced nothing but a dunk contest win, despite plenty of opportunities. Meanwhile Gasol was the best player in the second best league in the world.

Who Chris Wallace was only 50-50 to get to come over, and also was still viewed as a low level big man prospect for the NBA.

Even now that he's exceeded the expecations of almost everyone he's an average starting center.

There is a whole lot of hindsight being applied to make an awful salary dump forced upon the GM by a cheap owner smell like a rose.

I did a quick google search and couldn't find where Gasol was 50-50 to come over, but I'll take your word for it. And I've always said that the Grizz should have tried harder to get LO out of the deal. My only objection is that somehow Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair who produced literally nothing at any level of basketball by the time they were traded were somehow greater prospects than the Spanish League MVP.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/marc-gasol-come-on-down/Content?oid=1144563

I think hindsight is also coloring your value of Green/Telfair at the time. Both came out of high school highly hyped with a ton of talent. In the four years since we know that one is out of the league and the other is a career backup, but back then both were still young and had promise.

Interesting point about this, that blog entry was from 3 months after the trade and cites that the big reason that Gasol might not come over is the relative value of the Dollar versus the Euro.. Is that Wallace's fault the dollar was plummeting? Do Celtics fans hate him that muh that they blame him for the recession? 

The point wsa that he wasn't a sure thing, he was always a risk to stay in Europe and was still a low level prospect.

Heck he was a low level player until he lost 40 llbs.

But you think he was a high level prospect, I don't. I bet we also disagree how good he is now.

My point is I wonder how sure a thing it was when the deal was made as compared to 3 months later.

I dunno, 12 points 7.5 boards in your rookie season isn't low level.

I also don't think you have to be a high level prospect to be a better prospect than Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair two years into their career.

We probably don't disagree how good a player he is now.  I think he's easily a top 15 center in the NBA, probably top 10. And not likely to get much better than that, although his numbers would rise if he wasn't on a team with so many scorers.

I rate him much lower because I don't think he's a very godd defender.

He's a middle of the pack C, 15-20 range. His offensive ability might be greater than that but its hard to tell when he's paired with Z-Bo the black hole.

I could only find nine I liked more and that's making Tim Duncan C and assuming this is just a bad year for Brook Lopez.

Perkins
Lopez
Noah
Bogut
Howard
Bynum
Chandler
Duncan
Nene.

Also, his defensive struggles come more from the fact that ZBO is a terrible defender. He ends up having to cover his man while keeping one-eye on the PF.

Al Horford?

And the injury riddled Yao Ming and Greg Oden with an asterisk mark next to their name ... depending on whether they can stay healthy for a full season, and still perform at a high level, ever again.

I left Horford and Ama're off becuase they're PFs in C's clothing. And I can't have players on the list that have played 20 games in the last two seasons. Saying that Yao and Greg could be dominant if they could ever get healthy is like saying the sky would be really interesting if it were Orange at Noon. Yes, it would be but it won't ever happen.

Fair enough with Yao and Oden.

I would put Horford on the list though and drop Perkins. I have Perk in the tier below alongside players like Brendan Haywood and Marcin Gortat.

I'm not sure where I'd put Amare, position wise, depends on how NY plans on using him after the Melo trade ... so I'll wait a bit longer on that.

[Fafnir]

Perkins
Brook Lopez
Nene
Duncan
Bogut
Horford (he's plays C most of the time just like Duncan)
Howard
Bynum
Noah
Chandler
Okafor
Pau Gasol (he also plays a lot of C but I understand if you don't count him)
Amar'e (see above)

Similar Players
Gortat
Dalmbert (if he's kept from taking shots)
Bargs
Hibbert

Wow, you need to watch more Grizzlies games if you think Gortat, Bargs, Dalembert and Hibbert are on Gasol's level.

I don't like his defense or rebounding as a C. Offensively he's probably a top 10 center, he's a very good to great passer when he has the ball.

Playing next to Zach Randolph limits his value on that end though.

[KCattheStripe]

Perkins
Brook Lopez
Nene
Duncan
Bogut
Horford (he's plays C most of the time just like Duncan)
Howard
Bynum
Noah
Chandler
Okafor
Pau Gasol (he also plays a lot of C but I understand if you don't count him)
Amar'e (see above)

Similar Players
Gortat
Dalmbert (if he's kept from taking shots)
Bargs
Hibbert

Wow, you need to watch more Grizzlies games if you think Gortat, Bargs, Dalembert and Hibbert are on Gasol's level.

I don't like his defense or rebounding as a C. Offensively he's probably a top 10 center, he's a very good to great passer when he has the ball.

Playing next to Zach Randolph limits his value on that end though.

His rebounding numbers made the expected jump from 08-09 to 09-10 from 7.5- 9.3. They've dropped this year, but it's no surprise that they've dropped by almost exactly the same number that ZBO and Darrel l Arthur's have gone up combined. Also, his scoring averages has dropped but his attempts and makes have each fallen by 1. It's no surprise that the Grizz got better talent and Marc's numbers suffered because he differs so much.

[KCattheStripe]

Fair enough with Yao and Oden.

I would put Horford on the list though and drop Perkins. I have Perk in the tier below alongside players like Brendan Haywood and Marcin Gortat.

I'm not sure where I'd put Amare, position wise, depends on how NY plans on using him after the Melo trade ... so I'll wait a bit longer on that.

That's fair. like I said, he's easily top 15 and in my estimation top 10 and likely to be in that range for his entire career.

[Fafnir]

Perkins
Brook Lopez
Nene
Duncan
Bogut
Horford (he's plays C most of the time just like Duncan)
Howard
Bynum
Noah
Chandler
Okafor
Pau Gasol (he also plays a lot of C but I understand if you don't count him)
Amar'e (see above)

Similar Players
Gortat
Dalmbert (if he's kept from taking shots)
Bargs
Hibbert

Wow, you need to watch more Grizzlies games if you think Gortat, Bargs, Dalembert and Hibbert are on Gasol's level.

I don't like his defense or rebounding as a C. Offensively he's probably a top 10 center, he's a very good to great passer when he has the ball.

Playing next to Zach Randolph limits his value on that end though.

His rebounding numbers made the expected jump from 08-09 to 09-10 from 7.5- 9.3. They've dropped this year, but it's no surprise that they've dropped by almost exactly the same number that ZBO and Darrel l Arthur's have gone up combined. Also, his scoring averages has dropped but his attempts and makes have each fallen by 1. It's no surprise that the Grizz got better talent and Marc's numbers suffered because he differs so much.

I really don't look at RPG, too often those just fluctuate based on minutes.

His rebound rate has always been a bit low for a C, this year both offensive/defensive numbers have gone down signifigantly.

Do his team mates effect that somewhat, sure, but it still an area where I don't love his game.

[Who]

Yeah, I have Marc Gasol ranked at #9-to-#11 amongst centers ... not including Oden, Yao or Amare.

Varejao and Nene right there with him. Same tier. Not sure what order to put those three in ... tempted to go with M.Gasol in first place ahead of them though.

[TheTruthFot18]

I have followed the Griz (loosely) since the Gasol trade. Adding AI last year really caught my attention (not in a great way), but since then I always thought they had potential. A starting unit of:

Conley: Young, athletic, good passer and scorer, but lacks some leadership at the point like rondo or rose.

Mayo (pre drugs and fights): big time scorer coming from usc, and 3 pt shooter, but inconsistent the most of starting 5.

Gay: Underrated SF in the league, decent defense, great all around game (similar to PP in his prime, not as much scoring), and slowlyyy developing into this teams leader.

Z BO: Ya him. But whens the last time this guy put up these beastly numbers on a team that mattered. Maybe he doesnt come back next year, and ive heard all the heat on him, but no doubt if he was out, the team would be in trouble. Theirs a reason why Mem is one of the top rebounders off and def.

Gasol: No, not that turkey in LA. I like Marc more (not just because he's not a laker), but hes tough, can rebound, and is a true center who can at times dominate the paint even against good defences.

The only downside to the Grizz was their bench or lack there of. Thats why I was excited to see TA go to the Grizz over anyone else. 1. they needed some defensive specialist to give advice and someone decent off the bench. Also adding Battier and Jwill definitely helped round out the backups for conley and gay.

Probably a first round exit since they are in the west. But Ive seen this team beat the Cavs (last year), lakers, heat, miami, Almost SA last week, and finally yesterday. Just feels good to see this team make some real noise for once. A good team going into the future if they can keep/replace ZBO and stay consistent, and maybe work on D (haha, can't I dream?)

[Who]

I really don't look at RPG, too often those just fluctuate based on minutes.

His rebound rate has always been a bit low for a C, this year both offensive/defensive numbers have gone down signifigantly.

Do his team mates effect that somewhat, sure, but it still an area where I don't love his game.

I am worried about Gasol's drop on the boards too.

I am hoping it is just a temporary situation. For the time being, I am assuming it is just that.

Memphis were the second best team in the league in rebounding differential last year (+3.8 per game) and fallen back to the middle of the pack this season (-0.1 per game) ... and I think Marc Gasol's decline on the boards is one of the main reasons why.

[KCattheStripe]

I really don't look at RPG, too often those just fluctuate based on minutes.

His rebound rate has always been a bit low for a C, this year both offensive/defensive numbers have gone down signifigantly.

Do his team mates effect that somewhat, sure, but it still an area where I don't love his game.

I am worried about Gasol's drop on the boards too.

I am hoping it is just a temporary situation. For the time being, I am assuming it is just that.

Memphis were the second best team in the league in rebounding differential last year (+3.8 per game) and fallen back to the middle of the pack this season (-0.1 per game) ... and I think Marc Gasol's decline on the boards is one of the main reasons why.

But if a guy's minutes drop and the guys next to him start rebounding more is that really that guys fault?

[Fafnir]

I really don't look at RPG, too often those just fluctuate based on minutes.

His rebound rate has always been a bit low for a C, this year both offensive/defensive numbers have gone down signifigantly.

Do his team mates effect that somewhat, sure, but it still an area where I don't love his game.

I am worried about Gasol's drop on the boards too.

I am hoping it is just a temporary situation. For the time being, I am assuming it is just that.

Memphis were the second best team in the league in rebounding differential last year (+3.8 per game) and fallen back to the middle of the pack this season (-0.1 per game) ... and I think Marc Gasol's decline on the boards is one of the main reasons why.

But if a guy's minutes drop and the guys next to him start rebounding more is that really that guys fault?

His rebounding rate dropped though, and as a team they are getting less rebounds too.