How about them Memphis Grizzly Bears?

[Fafnir]

I won't proffess to know much about any international leagues, however I do remember at the time that the quick summary of Marc Gasol was that he was Pau Gasol's significantly less talented brother.

That being said, at the point of the trade - to various degrees - Bassy and Gerald were both "Maybe, but probably not" prospects, stock on both of them had dropped pretty significantly in the year leading up to the trade.

At the end of the day, the Garnett trade makes a lot more sense to me - even if it didn't really work out.

I will say this, the Memphis trade made perfect sense financially. The Lakers had the biggest expiring contract that was to be had. Plus by taking back draft picks and low level players (on lower rookie contracts) the Grizzlies saved essentially the most money feasible in any sort of trade.

Their other options would have involved getting more talent (and therefore salary) back.

[Fafnir]

BTW, Jonny Flynn was a miserable pick, and I think it's been so discussed that we often forget just how terrible it was.I'd argue that its probably one of the worst five picks in the history of the draft.

No way its in the top five of worst draft picks ever.

[KCattheStripe]

Mid first round talent that had produced nothing but a dunk contest win, despite plenty of opportunities. Meanwhile Gasol was the best player in the second best league in the world.

Who Chris Wallace was only 50-50 to get to come over, and also was still viewed as a low level big man prospect for the NBA.

Even now that he's exceeded the expecations of almost everyone he's an average starting center.

There is a whole lot of hindsight being applied to make an awful salary dump forced upon the GM by a cheap owner smell like a rose.

I did a quick google search and couldn't find where Gasol was 50-50 to come over, but I'll take your word for it. And I've always said that the Grizz should have tried harder to get LO out of the deal. My only objection is that somehow Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair who produced literally nothing at any level of basketball by the time they were traded were somehow greater prospects than the Spanish League MVP.

[StartOrien]

BTW, Jonny Flynn was a miserable pick, and I think it's been so discussed that we often forget just how terrible it was.I'd argue that its probably one of the worst five picks in the history of the draft.

No way its in the top five of worst draft picks ever.

I'd say I'd have to agree. That's a pick where AT THE TIME was miserable for multiple reasons, and since then has only gotten worse since.

[Fafnir]

Mid first round talent that had produced nothing but a dunk contest win, despite plenty of opportunities. Meanwhile Gasol was the best player in the second best league in the world.

Who Chris Wallace was only 50-50 to get to come over, and also was still viewed as a low level big man prospect for the NBA.

Even now that he's exceeded the expecations of almost everyone he's an average starting center.

There is a whole lot of hindsight being applied to make an awful salary dump forced upon the GM by a cheap owner smell like a rose.

I did a quick google search and couldn't find where Gasol was 50-50 to come over, but I'll take your word for it. And I've always said that the Grizz should have tried harder to get LO out of the deal. My only objection is that somehow Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair who produced literally nothing at any level of basketball by the time they were traded were somehow greater prospects than the Spanish League MVP.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/marc-gasol-come-on-down/Content?oid=1144563

I think hindsight is also coloring your value of Green/Telfair at the time. Both came out of high school highly hyped with a ton of talent. In the four years since we know that one is out of the league and the other is a career backup, but back then both were still young and had promise.

[KCattheStripe]

Mid first round talent that had produced nothing but a dunk contest win, despite plenty of opportunities. Meanwhile Gasol was the best player in the second best league in the world.

Who Chris Wallace was only 50-50 to get to come over, and also was still viewed as a low level big man prospect for the NBA.

Even now that he's exceeded the expecations of almost everyone he's an average starting center.

There is a whole lot of hindsight being applied to make an awful salary dump forced upon the GM by a cheap owner smell like a rose.

I did a quick google search and couldn't find where Gasol was 50-50 to come over, but I'll take your word for it. And I've always said that the Grizz should have tried harder to get LO out of the deal. My only objection is that somehow Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair who produced literally nothing at any level of basketball by the time they were traded were somehow greater prospects than the Spanish League MVP.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/marc-gasol-come-on-down/Content?oid=1144563

I think hindsight is also coloring your value of Green/Telfair at the time. Both came out of high school highly hyped with a ton of talent. In the four years since we know that one is out of the league and the other is a career backup, but back then both were still young and had promise.

Both of them had been in the league two years and done nothing, both of them had reputations for being numbskulls, Telfair had a reputation for not being able to get his life together. Meanwhile, Marc Gasol shows enough motivation to start committing himself to the game enough to become the MVp of the second best league in the world. I think your dislike of Chris Wallace is coloring your view of what kind of prospect Marc Gasol was.

[KCattheStripe]

Mid first round talent that had produced nothing but a dunk contest win, despite plenty of opportunities. Meanwhile Gasol was the best player in the second best league in the world.

Who Chris Wallace was only 50-50 to get to come over, and also was still viewed as a low level big man prospect for the NBA.

Even now that he's exceeded the expecations of almost everyone he's an average starting center.

There is a whole lot of hindsight being applied to make an awful salary dump forced upon the GM by a cheap owner smell like a rose.

I did a quick google search and couldn't find where Gasol was 50-50 to come over, but I'll take your word for it. And I've always said that the Grizz should have tried harder to get LO out of the deal. My only objection is that somehow Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair who produced literally nothing at any level of basketball by the time they were traded were somehow greater prospects than the Spanish League MVP.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/marc-gasol-come-on-down/Content?oid=1144563

I think hindsight is also coloring your value of Green/Telfair at the time. Both came out of high school highly hyped with a ton of talent. In the four years since we know that one is out of the league and the other is a career backup, but back then both were still young and had promise.

Interesting point about this, that blog entry was from 3 months after the trade and cites that the big reason that Gasol might not come over is the relative value of the Dollar versus the Euro.. Is that Wallace's fault the dollar was plummeting? Do Celtics fans hate him that muh that they blame him for the recession? 

[KCattheStripe]

BTW, Jonny Flynn was a miserable pick, and I think it's been so discussed that we often forget just how terrible it was.I'd argue that its probably one of the worst five picks in the history of the draft.

No way its in the top five of worst draft picks ever.

I'd say I'd have to agree. That's a pick where AT THE TIME was miserable for multiple reasons, and since then has only gotten worse since.

David Kahn, making draft day interesting since 2009.

[Fafnir]

Mid first round talent that had produced nothing but a dunk contest win, despite plenty of opportunities. Meanwhile Gasol was the best player in the second best league in the world.

Who Chris Wallace was only 50-50 to get to come over, and also was still viewed as a low level big man prospect for the NBA.

Even now that he's exceeded the expecations of almost everyone he's an average starting center.

There is a whole lot of hindsight being applied to make an awful salary dump forced upon the GM by a cheap owner smell like a rose.

I did a quick google search and couldn't find where Gasol was 50-50 to come over, but I'll take your word for it. And I've always said that the Grizz should have tried harder to get LO out of the deal. My only objection is that somehow Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair who produced literally nothing at any level of basketball by the time they were traded were somehow greater prospects than the Spanish League MVP.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/marc-gasol-come-on-down/Content?oid=1144563

I think hindsight is also coloring your value of Green/Telfair at the time. Both came out of high school highly hyped with a ton of talent. In the four years since we know that one is out of the league and the other is a career backup, but back then both were still young and had promise.

Interesting point about this, that blog entry was from 3 months after the trade and cites that the big reason that Gasol might not come over is the relative value of the Dollar versus the Euro.. Is that Wallace's fault the dollar was plummeting? Do Celtics fans hate him that muh that they blame him for the recession? 

The point wsa that he wasn't a sure thing, he was always a risk to stay in Europe and was still a low level prospect.

Heck he was a low level player until he lost 40 llbs.

But you think he was a high level prospect, I don't. I bet we also disagree how good he is now.

[KCattheStripe]

Mid first round talent that had produced nothing but a dunk contest win, despite plenty of opportunities. Meanwhile Gasol was the best player in the second best league in the world.

Who Chris Wallace was only 50-50 to get to come over, and also was still viewed as a low level big man prospect for the NBA.

Even now that he's exceeded the expecations of almost everyone he's an average starting center.

There is a whole lot of hindsight being applied to make an awful salary dump forced upon the GM by a cheap owner smell like a rose.

I did a quick google search and couldn't find where Gasol was 50-50 to come over, but I'll take your word for it. And I've always said that the Grizz should have tried harder to get LO out of the deal. My only objection is that somehow Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair who produced literally nothing at any level of basketball by the time they were traded were somehow greater prospects than the Spanish League MVP.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/marc-gasol-come-on-down/Content?oid=1144563

I think hindsight is also coloring your value of Green/Telfair at the time. Both came out of high school highly hyped with a ton of talent. In the four years since we know that one is out of the league and the other is a career backup, but back then both were still young and had promise.

Interesting point about this, that blog entry was from 3 months after the trade and cites that the big reason that Gasol might not come over is the relative value of the Dollar versus the Euro.. Is that Wallace's fault the dollar was plummeting? Do Celtics fans hate him that muh that they blame him for the recession? 

The point wsa that he wasn't a sure thing, he was always a risk to stay in Europe and was still a low level prospect.

Heck he was a low level player until he lost 40 llbs.

But you think he was a high level prospect, I don't. I bet we also disagree how good he is now.

My point is I wonder how sure a thing it was when the deal was made as compared to 3 months later.

I dunno, 12 points 7.5 boards in your rookie season isn't low level.

I also don't think you have to be a high level prospect to be a better prospect than Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair two years into their career.

We probably don't disagree how good a player he is now.  I think he's easily a top 15 center in the NBA, probably top 10. And not likely to get much better than that, although his numbers would rise if he wasn't on a team with so many scorers.

[Fafnir]

Mid first round talent that had produced nothing but a dunk contest win, despite plenty of opportunities. Meanwhile Gasol was the best player in the second best league in the world.

Who Chris Wallace was only 50-50 to get to come over, and also was still viewed as a low level big man prospect for the NBA.

Even now that he's exceeded the expecations of almost everyone he's an average starting center.

There is a whole lot of hindsight being applied to make an awful salary dump forced upon the GM by a cheap owner smell like a rose.

I did a quick google search and couldn't find where Gasol was 50-50 to come over, but I'll take your word for it. And I've always said that the Grizz should have tried harder to get LO out of the deal. My only objection is that somehow Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair who produced literally nothing at any level of basketball by the time they were traded were somehow greater prospects than the Spanish League MVP.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/marc-gasol-come-on-down/Content?oid=1144563

I think hindsight is also coloring your value of Green/Telfair at the time. Both came out of high school highly hyped with a ton of talent. In the four years since we know that one is out of the league and the other is a career backup, but back then both were still young and had promise.

Interesting point about this, that blog entry was from 3 months after the trade and cites that the big reason that Gasol might not come over is the relative value of the Dollar versus the Euro.. Is that Wallace's fault the dollar was plummeting? Do Celtics fans hate him that muh that they blame him for the recession?  

The point wsa that he wasn't a sure thing, he was always a risk to stay in Europe and was still a low level prospect.

Heck he was a low level player until he lost 40 llbs.

But you think he was a high level prospect, I don't. I bet we also disagree how good he is now.

My point is I wonder how sure a thing it was when the deal was made as compared to 3 months later.

I dunno, 12 points 7.5 boards in your rookie season isn't low level.

I also don't think you have to be a high level prospect to be a better prospect than Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair two years into their career.

We probably don't disagree how good a player he is now.  I think he's easily a top 15 center in the NBA, probably top 10. And not likely to get much better than that, although his numbers would rise if he wasn't on a team with so many scorers.

I rate him much lower because I don't think he's a very good defender.

He's a middle of the pack C, 15-20 range. His offensive ability might be greater than that but its hard to tell when he's paired with Z-Bo the black hole.

[Who]

My recollection of Marc Gasol at the time of the trade ...

The expectation for M.Gasol was for him to be nothing more than a quality backup center in the NBA. That he didn't have the athleticism or mobility required to be a quality NBA player.

He was considered, in terms of trade value, roughly comparable to a late first round choice at the time of the trade. That the Grizzlies got the equivalent of cap space + four first round picks in the Pau Gasol trade.

[KCattheStripe]

Mid first round talent that had produced nothing but a dunk contest win, despite plenty of opportunities. Meanwhile Gasol was the best player in the second best league in the world.

Who Chris Wallace was only 50-50 to get to come over, and also was still viewed as a low level big man prospect for the NBA.

Even now that he's exceeded the expecations of almost everyone he's an average starting center.

There is a whole lot of hindsight being applied to make an awful salary dump forced upon the GM by a cheap owner smell like a rose.

I did a quick google search and couldn't find where Gasol was 50-50 to come over, but I'll take your word for it. And I've always said that the Grizz should have tried harder to get LO out of the deal. My only objection is that somehow Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair who produced literally nothing at any level of basketball by the time they were traded were somehow greater prospects than the Spanish League MVP.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/marc-gasol-come-on-down/Content?oid=1144563

I think hindsight is also coloring your value of Green/Telfair at the time. Both came out of high school highly hyped with a ton of talent. In the four years since we know that one is out of the league and the other is a career backup, but back then both were still young and had promise.

Interesting point about this, that blog entry was from 3 months after the trade and cites that the big reason that Gasol might not come over is the relative value of the Dollar versus the Euro.. Is that Wallace's fault the dollar was plummeting? Do Celtics fans hate him that muh that they blame him for the recession? 

The point wsa that he wasn't a sure thing, he was always a risk to stay in Europe and was still a low level prospect.

Heck he was a low level player until he lost 40 llbs.

But you think he was a high level prospect, I don't. I bet we also disagree how good he is now.

My point is I wonder how sure a thing it was when the deal was made as compared to 3 months later.

I dunno, 12 points 7.5 boards in your rookie season isn't low level.

I also don't think you have to be a high level prospect to be a better prospect than Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair two years into their career.

We probably don't disagree how good a player he is now.  I think he's easily a top 15 center in the NBA, probably top 10. And not likely to get much better than that, although his numbers would rise if he wasn't on a team with so many scorers.

I rate him much lower because I don't think he's a very godd defender.

He's a middle of the pack C, 15-20 range. His offensive ability might be greater than that but its hard to tell when he's paired with Z-Bo the black hole.

I could only find nine I liked more and that's making Tim Duncan C and assuming this is just a bad year for Brook Lopez.

Perkins
Lopez
Noah
Bogut
Howard
Bynum
Chandler
Duncan
Nene.

Also, his defensive struggles come more from the fact that ZBO is a terrible defender. He ends up having to cover his man while keeping one-eye on the PF.

[Who]

Mid first round talent that had produced nothing but a dunk contest win, despite plenty of opportunities. Meanwhile Gasol was the best player in the second best league in the world.

Who Chris Wallace was only 50-50 to get to come over, and also was still viewed as a low level big man prospect for the NBA.

Even now that he's exceeded the expecations of almost everyone he's an average starting center.

There is a whole lot of hindsight being applied to make an awful salary dump forced upon the GM by a cheap owner smell like a rose.

I did a quick google search and couldn't find where Gasol was 50-50 to come over, but I'll take your word for it. And I've always said that the Grizz should have tried harder to get LO out of the deal. My only objection is that somehow Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair who produced literally nothing at any level of basketball by the time they were traded were somehow greater prospects than the Spanish League MVP.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/marc-gasol-come-on-down/Content?oid=1144563

I think hindsight is also coloring your value of Green/Telfair at the time. Both came out of high school highly hyped with a ton of talent. In the four years since we know that one is out of the league and the other is a career backup, but back then both were still young and had promise.

Interesting point about this, that blog entry was from 3 months after the trade and cites that the big reason that Gasol might not come over is the relative value of the Dollar versus the Euro.. Is that Wallace's fault the dollar was plummeting? Do Celtics fans hate him that muh that they blame him for the recession? 

The point wsa that he wasn't a sure thing, he was always a risk to stay in Europe and was still a low level prospect.

Heck he was a low level player until he lost 40 llbs.

But you think he was a high level prospect, I don't. I bet we also disagree how good he is now.

My point is I wonder how sure a thing it was when the deal was made as compared to 3 months later.

I dunno, 12 points 7.5 boards in your rookie season isn't low level.

I also don't think you have to be a high level prospect to be a better prospect than Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair two years into their career.

We probably don't disagree how good a player he is now.  I think he's easily a top 15 center in the NBA, probably top 10. And not likely to get much better than that, although his numbers would rise if he wasn't on a team with so many scorers.

I rate him much lower because I don't think he's a very godd defender.

He's a middle of the pack C, 15-20 range. His offensive ability might be greater than that but its hard to tell when he's paired with Z-Bo the black hole.

I could only find nine I liked more and that's making Tim Duncan C and assuming this is just a bad year for Brook Lopez.

Perkins
Lopez
Noah
Bogut
Howard
Bynum
Chandler
Duncan
Nene.

Also, his defensive struggles come more from the fact that ZBO is a terrible defender. He ends up having to cover his man while keeping one-eye on the PF.

Al Horford?

And the injury riddled Yao Ming and Greg Oden with an asterisk mark next to their name ... depending on whether they can stay healthy for a full season, and, still perform at a high level, ever again.

[KCattheStripe]

Mid first round talent that had produced nothing but a dunk contest win, despite plenty of opportunities. Meanwhile Gasol was the best player in the second best league in the world.

Who Chris Wallace was only 50-50 to get to come over, and also was still viewed as a low level big man prospect for the NBA.

Even now that he's exceeded the expecations of almost everyone he's an average starting center.

There is a whole lot of hindsight being applied to make an awful salary dump forced upon the GM by a cheap owner smell like a rose.

I did a quick google search and couldn't find where Gasol was 50-50 to come over, but I'll take your word for it. And I've always said that the Grizz should have tried harder to get LO out of the deal. My only objection is that somehow Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair who produced literally nothing at any level of basketball by the time they were traded were somehow greater prospects than the Spanish League MVP.

http://www.memphisflyer.com/memphis/marc-gasol-come-on-down/Content?oid=1144563

I think hindsight is also coloring your value of Green/Telfair at the time. Both came out of high school highly hyped with a ton of talent. In the four years since we know that one is out of the league and the other is a career backup, but back then both were still young and had promise.

Interesting point about this, that blog entry was from 3 months after the trade and cites that the big reason that Gasol might not come over is the relative value of the Dollar versus the Euro.. Is that Wallace's fault the dollar was plummeting? Do Celtics fans hate him that muh that they blame him for the recession? 

The point wsa that he wasn't a sure thing, he was always a risk to stay in Europe and was still a low level prospect.

Heck he was a low level player until he lost 40 llbs.

But you think he was a high level prospect, I don't. I bet we also disagree how good he is now.

My point is I wonder how sure a thing it was when the deal was made as compared to 3 months later.

I dunno, 12 points 7.5 boards in your rookie season isn't low level.

I also don't think you have to be a high level prospect to be a better prospect than Gerald Green and Sebastian Telfair two years into their career.

We probably don't disagree how good a player he is now.  I think he's easily a top 15 center in the NBA, probably top 10. And not likely to get much better than that, although his numbers would rise if he wasn't on a team with so many scorers.

I rate him much lower because I don't think he's a very godd defender.

He's a middle of the pack C, 15-20 range. His offensive ability might be greater than that but its hard to tell when he's paired with Z-Bo the black hole.

I could only find nine I liked more and that's making Tim Duncan C and assuming this is just a bad year for Brook Lopez.

Perkins
Lopez
Noah
Bogut
Howard
Bynum
Chandler
Duncan
Nene.

Also, his defensive struggles come more from the fact that ZBO is a terrible defender. He ends up having to cover his man while keeping one-eye on the PF.

Al Horford?

And the injury riddled Yao Ming and Greg Oden with an asterisk mark next to their name ... depending on whether they can stay healthy for a full season, and still perform at a high level, ever again.

I left Horford and Ama're off becuase they're PFs in C's clothing. And I can't have players on the list that have played 20 games in the last two seasons. Saying that Yao and Greg could be dominant if they could ever get healthy is like saying the sky would be really interesting if it were Orange at Noon. Yes, it would be but it won't ever happen.