Top 5 reasons you can't blame: Danny Ainge for trading Perkins to the Thunder

[ballin]

I would make an articulate and well-thought rebuttal to your points, but there's really no need for me to do that since Roy has already put it so eloquently.

Instead, let me point out the statement where you lost your credibility.

This season also shows that Doc's best lineup is with Big Baby playing the 5, with KG playing the 4.

[OsirusCeltics]

I would make an articulate and well-thought rebuttal to your points, but there's really no need for me to do that since Roy has already put it so eloquently.

Instead, let me point out the statement where you lost your credibility.

This season also shows that Doc's best lineup is with Big Baby playing the 5, with KG playing the 4.

Do you watch the games? KG and Baby was the lineup Doc go to this season in the final minutes. Doc's most effective and mostly used lineup in 2008 was KG at the 5, and Posey at the 4 to close out games. So...whats your point?

[ballin]

I would make an articulate and well-thought rebuttal to your points, but there's really no need for me to do that since Roy has already put it so eloquently.

Instead, let me point out the statement where you lost your credibility.

This season also shows that Doc's best lineup is with Big Baby playing the 5, with KG playing the 4.

Do you watch the games? KG and Baby was the lineup Doc go to this season in the final minutes. Doc's most effective and mostly used lineup in 2008 was KG at the 5, and Posey at the 4 to close out games. So...whats your point?

I'll start by mentioning how apparently you think it's just a funny coincidence that we tend to lose most of our games by giving up runs late in the fourth quarter (when Big Baby usually spends extensive time guarding the other team's starting center or pf).

Secondly, look at every regular or advanced stat in the universe and it'll tell you what can plainly be seen: Big Baby is a below-average player. He's the weak link, and every minute he takes away from Shaq (or formerly) Perk is a bad, bad thing. I would rather have Semih in because he stays out of the way and doesn't shoot us out of games with horrible inefficiency. The only player on our team that's more anemic offensively is J.O., but at least he D's up occasionally.

Baby just can't play starter's minutes on a team that wants to win a Title. I thought Perkins going down during last year's finals proved that.

[Edgar]

to add BBD is now the 9th best player on the team heading 10th

[wdleehi]

Someone was arguing with me earlier that Perk is injury prone and likely wouldn't be healthy in the finals.  Where the heck did this idea come from?

People also seem to be forgetting that Perk shoots one of the highest percentages in the league.

Benefit of having 3 hall of famers get all the attention with a pass first point guard in Rondo...

So he doesn't have "no skill to score in the post?"  His teammates obviously helped but he's not nearly as bad as you're trying to make him sound: "Teams playing 5 on 4"  Exaggerate much?

No but seriously, teams were doing that. Perk is obviously not terrible. But his offense was a liability like I explained. Teams do play 5 on 4 on the Celtics. Dwight Howard is able to roam and block shots with him not worrying about Perkins scoring. Teams would also be able to double KG in the post or Ray on the perimeter. This is the reason this team goes on offensive lulls. They become easier to defend

Yet, they have had great success when that lineup is intact and failures as soon as one of them are out of the lineup against other top teams.

[mgent]

Someone was arguing with me earlier that Perk is injury prone and likely wouldn't be healthy in the finals.  Where the heck did this idea come from?

People also seem to be forgetting that Perk shoots one of the highest percentages in the league.

Benefit of having 3 hall of famers get all the attention with a pass first point guard in Rondo...

So he doesn't have "no skill to score in the post?"  His teammates obviously helped but he's not nearly as bad as you're trying to make him sound: "Teams playing 5 on 4"  Exaggerate much?

No but seriously, teams were doing that. Perk is obviously not terrible. But his offense was a liability like I explained. Teams do play 5 on 4 on the Celtics. Dwight Howard is able to roam and block shots with him not worrying about Perkins scoring. Teams would also be able to double KG in the post or Ray on the perimeter. This is the reason this team goes on offensive lulls. They become easier to defend

So we won "in spite" of Rondo too since he makes us easier to defend?

[GreenEnvy]

Someone was arguing with me earlier that Perk is injury prone and likely wouldn't be healthy in the finals.  Where the heck did this idea come from?

People also seem to be forgetting that Perk shoots one of the highest percentages in the league.

Benefit of having 3 hall of famers get all the attention with a pass first point guard in Rondo...

So he doesn't have "no skill to score in the post?"  His teammates obviously helped but he's not nearly as bad as you're trying to make him sound: "Teams playing 5 on 4"  Exaggerate much?

No but seriously, teams were doing that. Perk is obviously not terrible. But his offense was a liability like I explained. Teams do play 5 on 4 on the Celtics. Dwight Howard is able to roam and block shots with him not worrying about Perkins scoring. Teams would also be able to double KG in the post or Ray on the perimeter. This is the reason this team goes on offensive lulls. They become easier to defend

So we won "in spite" of Rondo too since he makes us easier to defend?

Sometimes.

As great as Rondo is, at times he detracts from the offense. I'm not saying his negatives cancel out his positives, but his lack of shooting hurts the offense.

The Big Three are arguably the most complimentary trio ever assembled at those positions. It should be almost too easy to score with such a great PG, yet at times it clearly isn't.

[OsirusCeltics]

I would make an articulate and well-thought rebuttal to your points, but there's really no need for me to do that since Roy has already put it so eloquently.

Instead, let me point out the statement where you lost your credibility.

This season also shows that Doc's best lineup is with Big Baby playing the 5, with KG playing the 4.

Do you watch the games? KG and Baby was the lineup Doc go to this season in the final minutes. Doc's most effective and mostly used lineup in 2008 was KG at the 5, and Posey at the 4 to close out games. So...whats your point?

I'll start by mentioning how apparently you think it's just a funny coincidence that we tend to lose most of our games by giving up runs late in the fourth quarter (when Big Baby usually spends extensive time guarding the other team's starting center or pf).

Secondly, look at every regular or advanced stat in the universe and it'll tell you what can plainly be seen: Big Baby is a below-average player. He's the weak link, and every minute he takes away from Shaq (or formerly) Perk is a bad, bad thing. I would rather have Semih in because he stays out of the way and doesn't shoot us out of games with horrible inefficiency. The only player on our team that's more anemic offensively is J.O., but at least he D's up occasionally.

Baby just can't play starter's minutes on a team that wants to win a Title. I thought Perkins going down during last year's finals proved that.

You never addressed the Bill Russell/ Bill Walton factor. It was there High B-Ball IQ and offensive efficiency at the center position that made the 60's Celtics and the '86 team unstoppable. And don't even talk about the defense. Wilt still averaged 30 plus points against the Celtic teams. And Bill Walton at that stage of his career wasn't an all world defender. You can't be monster on offense with a player that brings the ball to his shoelaces before attempting a shot? NO offensive on his part and was a liability...

[OsirusCeltics]

Just wanted to bring this old thread up. Cause I think there is too much anger toward this trade, when I think Celtics greatly improved

[vinnie]

Just wanted to bring this old thread up. Cause I think there is too much anger toward this trade, when I think Celtics greatly improved

We will see how much they improved with the center tandem of JO and Krstic. No Shaq  means no title.  Thanks, Danny.

[OsirusCeltics]

Just wanted to bring this old thread up. Cause I think there is too much anger toward this trade, when I think Celtics greatly improved

We will see how much they improved with the center tandem of JO and Krstic. No Shaq  means no title.  Thanks, Danny.

Fair Point

[slamtheking]

No disrespect intended, but if there are five good reasons the trade was made, those weren't it.

5.  Until this season, Perk was actually remarkably durable.  Since he started getting regular playing time in 2007, this is the first time he's missed more than 10 games.  Over the three prior seasons, Perk had missed 14 games, the same number as Ray and Pierce, and obviously a lot fewer than KG.  Perk is banged up this year, but he definitely isn't "injury prone".

4.  A healthy Perk scores more points than the "offensive center" we just brought in, and scores them more efficiently.  Shaq only provides three more points per 36 minutes than Perk did last year, so it's not like the offensive gap is a huge one.  Link. 

3.  This has been repeated ad nauseum.  The extension was limited by the CBA, and wasn't indicative of Perk's market value.

2.  There are 25 games left to incorporate up to five new players, plus rework J.O., Shaq, and Delonte into the rotation.  The players have cited chemistry as a concern.  Fans who aren't in love with the trade have legit concerns.

1.  Perk's 2008 playoff stats:  6.6 points, 6.1 rebounds, 58.5% FG%

P.J.'s 2008 playoff stats: 2.9 points, 2.4 rebounds, 46.4% shooting

In those playoffs, our offense was better with Perk on the floor compared to P.J. (+4 points per 100 possessions) and the defense was better, too (-3 points per 100 possessions).  There's just no argument that P.J. was a better player for us.

THIS!

TP for stating an intelligent, common-sense response to an initial set of "reasons" that were poor excuses for excuses. 

[mc34]

If JO can do at least 3/4 of what he did tonight, consistently... We're in good shape. JO was so good tonight

[bbd24]

JO and/or Shaq > Perkins

You forgot that reason.  You already brought in Centers better than Queen Perk.  You dont pay 9M per for someone who plays 20 mins per game for your team. You give that money to guys like Ibaka, not Queen Perk.

[More Banners]

JO and/or Shaq > Perkins

You forgot that reason.  You already brought in Centers better than Queen Perk.  You dont pay 9M per for someone who plays 20 mins per game for your team. You give that money to guys like Ibaka, not Queen Perk.

Exactly.  The upgrade from an out-of-position Green to Ibaka has more to do with OKC's improvement than Perk, IMO.