Didn't realize how bad and worthless a Player Perk is until today

[droponov]

We'll see how Perk plays with Ibaka by his side.  Seriously, I never seen a guy get so much credit in my life as Perk. 

But how do you know that Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all. 

[Fafnir]

  Presti didn't make the deal to get Nate. He wanted Perk for the future and hopefully in the playoffs. Neither team got swindled, and both teams may benefit greatly from the trade.

Well said.  This has the potential to be a classic case of a win-win trade.  

Especially since OKC likely was targetting perkins in FA anyways.

They are planning for the long term around two very young stars, they can wait for Perkins to get healthy going forward.

[jv2764]

I had to be in the car for four hours and got to listen to just about every caller on the SportHub talk about how Perk stinks, Perk meant nothing to the celtics, Perk can't score (Um, Celts don't need scoring from their center), etc.

The simple question is this -- where were all of the Perk haters prior to Thursday's trade?

I been there since Day 1.  I thought Boston fans overrated him tremendously.  Boston fans love him because he came cheap and was blue collar lunch pail guy.  Boston fans love "dirt dogs".  It takes a full year to come back from an ACL and now he has an MCL issue.  Put it this way do you still love Perk at 8 or 9 Mil a year?  Didnt think so.

Imagine your an OKC fan and your team trades 40% of its starting line-up and in return gets a 5'9 bench shooting guard and a 6'10 center coming off major knee reconstructive surgery and now has a sprained MCL and is unavailable for 3 weeks. Oh yeah to boot you give up a top 10 protected 1st round pick in 2012. Exactly! Brilliant move DA.

Way to go DA way to go.  Foresight man!

You are right, Danny totally swindled Sam Presti out in OKC. It is clear from his team that Presti has no clue what he is doing.  

Perk hurt and out and now Nate out for 4 to 6 weeks.  Yes Vinnie DA did swindle Presti.  I repeat how do you feel if youre an OKC fan now with two players you traded for out with bad knees.

  Presti didn't make the deal to get Nate. He wanted Perk for the future and hopefully in the playoffs. Neither team got swindled, and both teams may benefit greatly from the trade.

Still a heist my friend anyway you look at it.  Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all. 

  I think that OKC would be happy with Perk (this year) if he plays as well for then defensively in the playoffs as he was playing defensively for us this season after coming back from knee surgery.

  Also, even if Perk doesn't play another minute this year he's signed long term with OKC. If Green and Krstic leave this summer and Perk's playing for OKC in three years is it still a heist for Danny?

Did you see his defense when he came back?  Howard tore him apart on Super Bowl Sunday in the first half that it forced Doc to go to BBD to guard him.  Brooke Lopez schooled Perk as well.  He has no lift whatsoever this year.  Look with your eyes and not your heart on Perk.

[jv2764]

We'll see how Perk plays with Ibaka by his side.  Seriously, I never seen a guy get so much credit in my life as Perk. 

But how do you know that Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all. 

How do you know he will?  ACLs on a guy who weighs 280.  I don't like  my chnces of a full recovery especially when he had no lift to begin with and now he is getting older with 8 years of nba mileage on those knees.

[BballTim]

I had to be in the car for four hours and got to listen to just about every caller on the SportHub talk about how Perk stinks, Perk meant nothing to the celtics, Perk can't score (Um, Celts don't need scoring from their center), etc.

The simple question is this -- where were all of the Perk haters prior to Thursday's trade?

I been there since Day 1.  I thought Boston fans overrated him tremendously.  Boston fans love him because he came cheap and was blue collar lunch pail guy.  Boston fans love "dirt dogs".  It takes a full year to come back from an ACL and now he has an MCL issue.  Put it this way do you still love Perk at 8 or 9 Mil a year?  Didnt think so.

Imagine your an OKC fan and your team trades 40% of its starting line-up and in return gets a 5'9 bench shooting guard and a 6'10 center coming off major knee reconstructive surgery and now has a sprained MCL and is unavailable for 3 weeks. Oh yeah to boot you give up a top 10 protected 1st round pick in 2012. Exactly! Brilliant move DA.

Way to go DA way to go.  Foresight man!

You are right, Danny totally swindled Sam Presti out in OKC. It is clear from his team that Presti has no clue what he is doing.  

Perk hurt and out and now Nate out for 4 to 6 weeks.  Yes Vinnie DA did swindle Presti.  I repeat how do you feel if youre an OKC fan now with two players you traded for out with bad knees.

  Presti didn't make the deal to get Nate. He wanted Perk for the future and hopefully in the playoffs. Neither team got swindled, and both teams may benefit greatly from the trade.

Still a heist my friend anyway you look at it.  Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all. 

  I think that OKC would be happy with Perk (this year) if he plays as well for then defensively in the playoffs as he was playing defensively for us this season after coming back from knee surgery.

  Also, even if Perk doesn't play another minute this year he's signed long term with OKC. If Green and Krstic leave this summer and Perk's playing for OKC in three years is it still a heist for Danny?

Did you see his defense when he came back?  Howard tore him apart on Super Bowl Sunday in the first half that it forced Doc to go to BBD to guard him.  Brooke Lopez schooled Perk as well.  He has no lift whatsoever this year.  Look with your eyes and not your heart on Perk.

  Funny, this came up in another thread as well. Howard scored 15 points on 5-13 shooting in the 33 minutes Perk guarded him, and 13 points on 5-7 shooting in the 12 minutes Perk was on the bench. Lopez probably did well against him, but you need to use your eyes as well.

[bbd24]

We'll see how Perk plays with Ibaka by his side.  Seriously, I never seen a guy get so much credit in my life as Perk. 

But how do you know that Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all. 

How do you know he will?  ACLs on a guy who weighs 280.  I don't like  my chnces of a full recovery especially when he had no lift to begin with and now he is getting older with 8 years of nba mileage on those knees.

Amen. A Big body who doesn't let up isn't a good combo for those knees. For all we know, it could be next year at this time when Perks finally 100%. And that's barring any setbacks. Nobody knows, but do you take that gamble when he's proven what his lift is the first 11 games back ? Then he sprains the other MCL on a standard play ?

No es bueno.

[jv2764]

I had to be in the car for four hours and got to listen to just about every caller on the SportHub talk about how Perk stinks, Perk meant nothing to the celtics, Perk can't score (Um, Celts don't need scoring from their center), etc.

The simple question is this -- where were all of the Perk haters prior to Thursday's trade?

I been there since Day 1.  I thought Boston fans overrated him tremendously.  Boston fans love him because he came cheap and was blue collar lunch pail guy.  Boston fans love "dirt dogs".  It takes a full year to come back from an ACL and now he has an MCL issue.  Put it this way do you still love Perk at 8 or 9 Mil a year?  Didnt think so.

Imagine your an OKC fan and your team trades 40% of its starting line-up and in return gets a 5'9 bench shooting guard and a 6'10 center coming off major knee reconstructive surgery and now has a sprained MCL and is unavailable for 3 weeks. Oh yeah to boot you give up a top 10 protected 1st round pick in 2012. Exactly! Brilliant move DA.

Way to go DA way to go.  Foresight man!

You are right, Danny totally swindled Sam Presti out in OKC. It is clear from his team that Presti has no clue what he is doing.  

Perk hurt and out and now Nate out for 4 to 6 weeks.  Yes Vinnie DA did swindle Presti.  I repeat how do you feel if youre an OKC fan now with two players you traded for out with bad knees.

  Presti didn't make the deal to get Nate. He wanted Perk for the future and hopefully in the playoffs. Neither team got swindled, and both teams may benefit greatly from the trade.

Still a heist my friend anyway you look at it.  Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all. 

  I think that OKC would be happy with Perk (this year) if he plays as well for then defensively in the playoffs as he was playing defensively for us this season after coming back from knee surgery.

  Also, even if Perk doesn't play another minute this year he's signed long term with OKC. If Green and Krstic leave this summer and Perk's playing for OKC in three years is it still a heist for Danny?

Did you see his defense when he came back?  Howard tore him apart on Super Bowl Sunday in the first half that it forced Doc to go to BBD to guard him.  Brooke Lopez schooled Perk as well.  He has no lift whatsoever this year.  Look with your eyes and not your heart on Perk.

Show me those splits

  Funny, this came up in another thread as well. Howard scored 15 points on 5-13 shooting in the 33 minutes Perk guarded him, and 13 points on 5-7 shooting in the 12 minutes Perk was on the bench. Lopez probably did well against him, but you need to use your eyes as well.

[droponov]

We'll see how Perk plays with Ibaka by his side.  Seriously, I never seen a guy get so much credit in my life as Perk. 

But how do you know that Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all. 

How do you know he will?  ACLs on a guy who weighs 280.  I don't like  my chnces of a full recovery especially when he had no lift to begin with and now he is getting older with 8 years of nba mileage on those knees.

What? How do I know he will? Are you kidding or something? I never claimed to know anything. Don't make that question again, it's in extremely poor taste and uneducated to use that sort of straw-man. I didn't claim to know, you did. So you don't, you're just speculating? But you said "Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all", direct quote. So, do you know or not?

[BballTim]

I had to be in the car for four hours and got to listen to just about every caller on the SportHub talk about how Perk stinks, Perk meant nothing to the celtics, Perk can't score (Um, Celts don't need scoring from their center), etc.

The simple question is this -- where were all of the Perk haters prior to Thursday's trade?

I been there since Day 1.  I thought Boston fans overrated him tremendously.  Boston fans love him because he came cheap and was blue collar lunch pail guy.  Boston fans love "dirt dogs".  It takes a full year to come back from an ACL and now he has an MCL issue.  Put it this way do you still love Perk at 8 or 9 Mil a year?  Didnt think so.

Imagine your an OKC fan and your team trades 40% of its starting line-up and in return gets a 5'9 bench shooting guard and a 6'10 center coming off major knee reconstructive surgery and now has a sprained MCL and is unavailable for 3 weeks. Oh yeah to boot you give up a top 10 protected 1st round pick in 2012. Exactly! Brilliant move DA.

Way to go DA way to go.  Foresight man!

You are right, Danny totally swindled Sam Presti out in OKC. It is clear from his team that Presti has no clue what he is doing.  

Perk hurt and out and now Nate out for 4 to 6 weeks.  Yes Vinnie DA did swindle Presti.  I repeat how do you feel if youre an OKC fan now with two players you traded for out with bad knees.

  Presti didn't make the deal to get Nate. He wanted Perk for the future and hopefully in the playoffs. Neither team got swindled, and both teams may benefit greatly from the trade.

Still a heist my friend anyway you look at it.  Perk wont be the same player he was prior to the injuries this year at all. 

  I think that OKC would be happy with Perk (this year) if he plays as well for then defensively in the playoffs as he was playing defensively for us this season after coming back from knee surgery.

  Also, even if Perk doesn't play another minute this year he's signed long term with OKC. If Green and Krstic leave this summer and Perk's playing for OKC in three years is it still a heist for Danny?

Did you see his defense when he came back?  Howard tore him apart on Super Bowl Sunday in the first half that it forced Doc to go to BBD to guard him.  Brooke Lopez schooled Perk as well.  He has no lift whatsoever this year.  Look with your eyes and not your heart on Perk.

Show me those splits

  Funny, this came up in another thread as well. Howard scored 15 points on 5-13 shooting in the 33 minutes Perk guarded him, and 13 points on 5-7 shooting in the 12 minutes Perk was on the bench. Lopez probably did well against him, but you need to use your eyes as well.

  I didn't find any splits for that, I dug the info out of the play by play transcript. Feel free to double-check what I did.

[BballTim]

Celtics defensive efficiency:

Feb 27th - 97.3 (1 - league leaders)
http://tinyurl.com/62u23sd

Jan 24th (one day before Perkins plays his first game of the season) - 98.3 (2 - Chicago leads)
http://tinyurl.com/674tjpq

Jan 3rd (Garnett got injured in Detroit on the Dec 29th) - 96.7 (1 - league leaders)
http://tinyurl.com/4zu4gnl

  I don't usually dredge up old threads but 82games finally updated their numbers so I thought I'd "close the books" on this. Our D ppp was 101.8 without Perk and 99.6 with him, an improvement of 2.2. Considering that included his first games back from injury I'd say that he did, in fact, make us a better defensive team this year. We, of course, lose 2.5 points on offense, so it's pretty much a wash, giving up a little defense to get a little offense.

  OTOH, our offense is great with Shaq and we're playing very well with Krstic in the starting lineup. The big four have played 68 minutes with Nenad and we're a +39 in that time.

[droponov]

Celtics defensive efficiency:

Feb 27th - 97.3 (1 - league leaders)
http://tinyurl.com/62u23sd

Jan 24th (one day before Perkins plays his first game of the season) - 98.3 (2 - Chicago leads)
http://tinyurl.com/674tjpq

Jan 3rd (Garnett got injured in Detroit on the Dec 29th) - 96.7 (1 - league leaders)
http://tinyurl.com/4zu4gnl

  I don't usually dredge up old threads but 82games finally updated their numbers so I thought I'd "close the books" on this. Our D ppp was 101.8 without Perk and 99.6 with him, an improvement of 2.2. Considering that included his first games back from injury I'd say that he did, in fact, make us a better defensive team this year. We, of course, lose 2.5 points on offense, so it's pretty much a wash, giving up a little defense to get a little offense.

  OTOH, our offense is great with Shaq and we're playing very well with Krstic in the starting lineup. The big four have played 68 minutes with Nenad and we're a +39 in that time.

Those numbers I posted already showed the defense had improved during that month or so Perkins was playing. But how do you know it was because of him?

You can't make that type of inference from those on/off numbers. I agree Perkins would make Boston a stronger defensive team but those numbers aren't evidence of it.

Btw, there's no nead to wait for 82games to get those numbers. Basketballvalue has them and they update much more frequently.

[celtics2]

We don't have to know everything about injuries etc. As long as a GM is getting the job done so be it. If I were the Celts I would make sure Shaq stays fit and will be ready for end of season and playoffs. That's all we need him for. I would not play him now. His type of skills do not need honing on a regular basis like a jump shooter would.

[BballTim]

Celtics defensive efficiency:

Feb 27th - 97.3 (1 - league leaders)
http://tinyurl.com/62u23sd

Jan 24th (one day before Perkins plays his first game of the season) - 98.3 (2 - Chicago leads)
http://tinyurl.com/674tjpq

Jan 3rd (Garnett got injured in Detroit on the Dec 29th) - 96.7 (1 - league leaders)
http://tinyurl.com/4zu4gnl

  I don't usually dredge up old threads but 82games finally updated their numbers so I thought I'd "close the books" on this. Our D ppp was 101.8 without Perk and 99.6 with him, an improvement of 2.2. Considering that included his first games back from injury I'd say that he did, in fact, make us a better defensive team this year. We, of course, lose 2.5 points on offense, so it's pretty much a wash, giving up a little defense to get a little offense.

  OTOH, our offense is great with Shaq and we're playing very well with Krstic in the starting lineup. The big four have played 68 minutes with Nenad and we're a +39 in that time.

Those numbers I posted already showed the defense had improved during that month or so Perkins was playing. But how do you know it was because of him?

You can't make that type of inference from those on/off numbers. I agree Perkins would make Boston a stronger defensive team but those numbers aren't evidence of it.

  They certainly provided more granularity than the numbers that you provided. I agree that those kinds of numbers don't definitively say that a certain player causes a specific part of a change in numbers like that, but that's generally the case for any numbers that most people would have ready access to.

Btw, there's no nead to wait for 82games to get those numbers. Basketballvalue has them and they update much more frequently.

  Thanks for that. Not really my favorite site, but 82games seems to have fallen by the wayside.