Didn't realize how bad and worthless a Player Perk is until today

[Casperian]

Yeah, but one extreme is something that people are actually saying, and the other is just a fictional straw man.  They're not really comparable in the discussion, in my opinion.

I think it's legit to say "I'm surprised how many Celtics fans think Perk was worthless".  Heck, I'm surprised by that vocal minority, too.  I guess a lot of folks were just waiting for him to get out of town before the knives came out, by and large.

I don't think it's legit to say "I'm surprised how many Celtics fans think Perk is the equivalent of Bill Russell", because (to my knowledge) no Celtics fan has actually ever made that claim.

All I can say is, I didn´t wait for anything to get the knife out, I was biting my tongue when people did what I thought was overrating Perk, out of respect for everything the man has done and for how hard he worked to become a legit NBA player. I´m a fan of the Celtics, I see no need to start a war over a player who´s good, just not as good as people want to make him.

I'm not trying to say Presti is better than Ainge. I'm merely responding to the statement that Presti isn't a good GM. He is. He turned a mediocre roster in Seattle into a high playoff seed in about the same time Ainge retooled the Celtics' roster from a basement team to a title contender.

I didn´t ask for any proof of the fact that Presti´s a good GM. I know he is. But he was also very lucky to land Durant. If Pritchard had picked Durant, I´m convinced Presti would´ve taken Oden. Everyone would´ve done that, and we all would be singing a different tune, now.
I wanted proof for the claim that he´s one of the best GM´s in the league, and in the context of this thread, that his opinion of Perk is worth more than Danny´s. There is none, because he isn´t.

Anyway, TP for the effort.

[BballTim]

I'll be very shocked when and if the day comes that we agree on anything basketball or politically-related.

  Haha. I actually prefer it when people disagree with what I say, it causes me to rethink my position and defending my ideas generally improves my understanding of a subject. We're not all coaches here, after all.

[mmbaby]

I'll be very shocked when and if the day comes that we agree on anything basketball or politically-related.

  Haha. I actually prefer it when people disagree with what I say, it causes me to rethink my position and defending my ideas generally improves my understanding of a subject. We're not all coaches here, after all.

Excellent statement, BBTim. It's the same for me and having a good argument is a pleasant pasttime.

There's been so much emotion here about Perk and even those who agree with the trade still say they are going to miss him.
I think it was the suddenness of the whole thing that caused the spark that lit the fire that became almost a flame war in the past 2 days.

[celtics2]

I liked Perk also but amounted to a more than an average center. Ok that's it. The Big 3 made him look good. I wish him well. Good move DA. As the dust settles looks like OKC got O'Kayoed and won't get off the mat for awhile.

[Neurotic Guy]

Love Perk and I am unsure about the trade.

But, I want to pose a question pertaining to Game 7 last yeaar:  Many seem to agree that if Perk were healthy we would have won.  But did the C's need Perk? Or would any servicable center who could have kept Rasheed's minutes down from the exhausting 36 he played have done the trick?   

[jimmywolfrey]

I'll say it again as I said before on here and/or on realgm..that Kwame Brown could have done what Perkins did for the Cs.  Perkins is nothing special, but he DID do his job.  Others can do the type of job Perk did, though not sure he is on the roster at the moment.  I wanted us to sign Kwame this past offseason for peanuts instead of JO... but now he'll probably cost 4-5 million per.

[dpaps]

That's funny. I didn't know Perk was Bill Russell to most C's fans until after he got traded.

I don't think a single fan has compared Perk to Russell in a positive way.  However, multiple people have called Perk "bad" or "worthless".  In other words, the hyperbolic sarcasm isn't really apt.

ok    I mean, I wasn't trying to offend. I just think there's been extremes on both sides of the aisle and this thread promotes that.

Yeah, but one extreme is something that people are actually saying, and the other is just a fictional straw man.  They're not really comparable in the discussion, in my opinion.

I think it's legit to say "I'm surprised how many Celtics fans think Perk was worthless".  Heck, I'm surprised by that vocal minority, too.  I guess a lot of folks were just waiting for him to get out of town before the knives came out, by and large.

I don't think it's legit to say "I'm surprised how many Celtics fans think Perk is the equivalent of Bill Russell", because (to my knowledge) no Celtics fan has actually ever made that claim.

Maybe you can link me to a couple (silly) posters that have called Perk worthless? Fine. But I think that's just as absurd as saying Perk is one of the greatest ball players of all time. Both are unnecessary extremes that I don't think represent the main opposing sides accurately. That was more my point than anything else.

I'm with you Jsaad. I just went through this thread and I didn't see a single person call Perk worthless. I didn't think your comment was meant as an attack at anybody and it seemed completely appropriate with the rest of the thread. You were pointing out, like you said, that both are just ridiculous extremes.

[Q_FBE]

I guess to be fair and just in all this blather over the trading of Kendrik Perkins is to have the Boston Celtics and the Oklahoma City Thunder meet up in the NBA Finals this June of 2011... and have the Shaq Daddy square off against Kendrick Perkins. Maybe we'll have a tornado warning or two to add to the excitement to the NBA finals.

[Bahku]

I had to be in the car for four hours and got to listen to just about every caller on the SportHub talk about how Perk stinks, Perk meant nothing to the celtics, Perk can't score (Um, Celts don't need scoring from their center), etc.

The simple question is this -- where were all of the Perk haters prior to Thursday's trade?

I think most people who have a negative opinion of a player, refrain from exposing that dislike in fear of being criticized, or in fear of appearing like a traitor to their team, so in that respect, having all the haters show up on SportHub doesn't surprise me at all.

Most who disliked him kept the majority of those emotions to themselves, and when the trade happened, they came running like hyenas to the kill. That said, I completely disagree with the criticism I've seen, and people trying to use player deficiencies as excuses to bash him, when most of their animosity comes from just not liking the guy's personality/scowl, complaining to the refs, etc..

If you just don't like the guy, come out and say so, but please don't try to say the guy didn't contribute meaningfully, or didn't mean much to this team ... those are the people I have a problem with, cuz that's just out of the realm of reality. Really gonna miss the big guy ... in many ways.

[Casperian]

If you just don't like the guy, come out and say so, but please don't try to say the guy didn't contribute meaningfully, or didn't mean much to this team ... those are the people I have a problem with, cuz that's just out of the realm of reality. Really gonna miss the big guy ... in many ways.

But I like Perk, and I do think he´s not a very good player. What am I supposed to say?

[Bahku]

If you just don't like the guy, come out and say so, but please don't try to say the guy didn't contribute meaningfully, or didn't mean much to this team ... those are the people I have a problem with, cuz that's just out of the realm of reality. Really gonna miss the big guy ... in many ways.

But I like Perk, and I do think he´s not a very good player. What am I supposed to say?

You said it! Straight-forward, to-the-point, and honest opinion, (TP) ... it may not be my opinion, but you're as entitled to it as I am mine, and it's not convoluted.

I think Perk still has room for improvement, skills-wise, but he added more to this team than just that ... besides the huge lift that he gave this club emotionally, he made the paint a tough place to be for opponents, and between him and KG, they turned that area under the basket inbto a black hole that other teams had to be concerned with, whether he was scoring a lot or not.

[Birdbrain]

Nice thread.  It's nice to see some level headed responses after losing such a popular player.  I don't live in Boston but, the response has been overwhelmingly positive for Perkins and negative for the trade around here (most active posters doesn't really = most fans weren't for the trade, fyi). Sorry to hear he'll be out another couple of weeks (DA strikes again).  Add Sam Presti to the long list of overrated players,GMS,etc around here.

So DA traded Wally Z for Ray Allen and BBD?  I guess in retrospect that trade turned out pretty well..

[nba is the worst]

I do find it funny, reading some posters (a minority, still) calling Perk "worthless" and a "bum".  I especially enjoyed the comparison to Greg Kite.

The fact is, one of the best GMs in the NBA just gave up two starters (from a good playoff team) and a potential lottery pick for him.  Perk is valued around the league, even if some on CB don't think so.

What exactly makes Sam Presti one of the best GM´s in the nba? Because Bill Simmons said so? Because Kevin Pritchard took Greg Oden and the Zombies were able to land Durant?

The only impressive thing Presti has ever done was drafting Westbrook at #4, and I did the same in that year´s mock draft. OKC hasn´t won anything, yet, it´s a bit too early to call Presti one of the best GM´s in the league.

To be honest, Danny´s track record is way more impressive than Presti´s, in my opinion. Same goes for guys like Daryl Morey or R.C. Buford.

He turned a trade exception from the Rashard Lewis sign and trade into Kurt Thomas and two 1st round picks from Phoenix.
 
He then turned Kurt Thomas into another 1st round pick.

That's one of several examples of smartly leveraging cap space to acquire draft picks and other assets.

Another: he assumed the contract of Daequan Cook from Miami, in exchange for a first round pick that he used to draft Eric Bledsoe, whom he then flipped for the 2012 Clippers pick that Boston now owns.

He's also shown a great eye for young talent in whom he's drafted and traded for.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php??Player=&Team=Thunder&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&BeginDate=2007-6-7&submit=Search&start=0

Yep, and he won nothing, yet. Danny did all of this, too, and was way better at it, yet people want to take Presti´s opinion over Danny´s.

Ainge turned essentially a lousy first pick, Wally, Ratliff and Utah´s bench big (plus fillers) into KG, Ray Allen, Big Baby and a Clippers first, since we got Delonte and Green back now.

He picked guys like Rondo, Perk or Baby late in the first/early in the second. Sam Presti picked Westbrook and Harden, who I´d call average at best, in the top 5.

Smart leverage my rear end, that´s ten times more impressive.

I always find the internet bloggers' obsession with "who's better" humorous, and indicative of human nature regarding competitiveness.

This trade looks like one of those win-win situations at this point.

Time will tell

[BballTim]

I'll say it again as I said before on here and/or on realgm..that Kwame Brown could have done what Perkins did for the Cs.  Perkins is nothing special, but he DID do his job.  Others can do the type of job Perk did, though not sure he is on the roster at the moment.  I wanted us to sign Kwame this past offseason for peanuts instead of JO... but now he'll probably cost 4-5 million per.

  Kwame is one of the best low post defenders in the game? Really?

[droponov]

I'll say it again as I said before on here and/or on realgm..that Kwame Brown could have done what Perkins did for the Cs.  Perkins is nothing special, but he DID do his job.  Others can do the type of job Perk did, though not sure he is on the roster at the moment.  I wanted us to sign Kwame this past offseason for peanuts instead of JO... but now he'll probably cost 4-5 million per.

  Kwame is one of the best low post defenders in the game? Really?

No, not at Perkins' level, but he's still pretty good. He'd have been a great option.