Didn't realize how bad and worthless a Player Perk is until today

[Onslaught]

Love the man, but the player is insanely overrated around here.

Leon Powe, Bill Walker and Tony Allen's departure got more people riled up on this blog than Perk's....so, I guess we overrate all our players.

And clearly he is overrated by Sam Presti and Dwight Howard and the other coaches and centers who have claimed that Perk is the toughest defender in the middle for them to play against. It was just so disheartening listening to the calls today. My son finally had to shut the radio off, because it was actually making us both sad.

D dosen't matter to some Celtics fans from what I can tell the last few days. You need a center who can score because that's more important.

I liked Perk. I like the fact that he was kind of an old school kind of player. And he intimidated other players. We'll miss that because most players these days don't have that factor. I can only think of a handful of guys like that anymore.

I hope what we gain in the end will make up for what we lost.

[Lucky17]

I do find it funny, reading some posters (a minority, still) calling Perk "worthless" and a "bum".  I especially enjoyed the comparison to Greg Kite.

The fact is, one of the best GMs in the NBA just gave up two starters (from a good playoff team) and a potential lottery pick for him.  Perk is valued around the league, even if some on CB don't think so.

What exactly makes Sam Presti one of the best GM´s in the nba? Because Bill Simmons said so? Because Kevin Pritchard took Greg Oden and the Zombies were able to land Durant?

The only impressive thing Presti has ever done was drafting Westbrook at #4, and I did the same in that year´s mock draft. OKC hasn´t won anything, yet, it´s a bit too early to call Presti one of the best GM´s in the league.

To be honest, Danny´s track record is way more impressive than Presti´s, in my opinion. Same goes for guys like Daryl Morey or R.C. Buford.

He turned a trade exception from the Rashard Lewis sign and trade into Kurt Thomas and two 1st round picks from Phoenix.
 
He then turned Kurt Thomas into another 1st round pick.

That's one of several examples of smartly leveraging cap space to acquire draft picks and other assets.

Another: he assumed the contract of Daequan Cook from Miami, in exchange for a first round pick that he used to draft Eric Bledsoe, whom he then flipped for the 2012 Clippers pick that Boston now owns.

He's also shown a great eye for young talent in whom he's drafted and traded for.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php??Player=&Team=Thunder&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&BeginDate=2007-6-7&submit=Search&start=0

[BballTim]

Yeah, Sam Presti was the same GM who got thoroughly pantsed by Ainge in the Ray Allen deal. I think I'd be fairly careful about elevating him into the pantheon of NBA general managers.

  He was trying to rebuild around Durant and had to trade a 31 year old shooting guard coming off double ankle surgery who was owed over $50M on the remainder of his contract. What did you expect him to get back in trade? LeBron?

[KungPoweChicken]

For what it is worth, If you look at my posts throughout my time here, you will see that I have always been highly critical of Perkins.

[Casperian]

I do find it funny, reading some posters (a minority, still) calling Perk "worthless" and a "bum".  I especially enjoyed the comparison to Greg Kite.

The fact is, one of the best GMs in the NBA just gave up two starters (from a good playoff team) and a potential lottery pick for him.  Perk is valued around the league, even if some on CB don't think so.

What exactly makes Sam Presti one of the best GM´s in the nba? Because Bill Simmons said so? Because Kevin Pritchard took Greg Oden and the Zombies were able to land Durant?

The only impressive thing Presti has ever done was drafting Westbrook at #4, and I did the same in that year´s mock draft. OKC hasn´t won anything, yet, it´s a bit too early to call Presti one of the best GM´s in the league.

To be honest, Danny´s track record is way more impressive than Presti´s, in my opinion. Same goes for guys like Daryl Morey or R.C. Buford.

He turned a trade exception from the Rashard Lewis sign and trade into Kurt Thomas and two 1st round picks from Phoenix.
 
He then turned Kurt Thomas into another 1st round pick.

That's one of several examples of smartly leveraging cap space to acquire draft picks and other assets.

Another: he assumed the contract of Daequan Cook from Miami, in exchange for a first round pick that he used to draft Eric Bledsoe, whom he then flipped for the 2012 Clippers pick that Boston now owns.

He's also shown a great eye for young talent in whom he's drafted and traded for.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php??Player=&Team=Thunder&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&BeginDate=2007-6-7&submit=Search&start=0

Yep, and he won nothing, yet. Danny did all of this, too, and was way better at it, yet people want to take Presti´s opinion over Danny´s.

Ainge turned essentially a lousy first pick, Wally, Ratliff and Utah´s bench big (plus fillers) into KG, Ray Allen, Big Baby and a Clippers first, since we got Delonte and Green back now.

He picked guys like Rondo, Perk or Baby late in the first/early in the second. Sam Presti picked Westbrook and Harden, who I´d call average at best, in the top 5.

Smart leverage my rear end, that´s ten times more impressive.

[CoachBo]

Yeah, Sam Presti was the same GM who got thoroughly pantsed by Ainge in the Ray Allen deal. I think I'd be fairly careful about elevating him into the pantheon of NBA general managers.

  He was trying to rebuild around Durant and had to trade a 31 year old shooting guard coming off double ankle surgery who was owed over $50M on the remainder of his contract. What did you expect him to get back in trade? LeBron?

One grows used on this blog to the conflation of the true abilities of Danny's Kids - or as Peter May calls it, the absence of "an unemotional assessment."

It is kind of unique to see that conflation spread, though, to the GM who acquires one of the dear departed. Get back to me when a Presti team wins a playoff series.

[JSD]

That's funny. I didn't know Perk was Bill Russell to most C's fans until after he got traded.

[Roy H.]

That's funny. I didn't know Perk was Bill Russell to most C's fans until after he got traded.

I don't think a single fan has compared Perk to Russell in a positive way.  However, multiple people have called Perk "bad" or "worthless".  In other words, the hyperbolic sarcasm isn't really apt.

[JSD]

That's funny. I didn't know Perk was Bill Russell to most C's fans until after he got traded.

I don't think a single fan has compared Perk to Russell in a positive way.  However, multiple people have called Perk "bad" or "worthless".  In other words, the hyperbolic sarcasm isn't really apt.

ok    I mean, I wasn't trying to offend. I just think there's been extremes on both sides of the aisle and this thread promotes that.

[Tai]

That's funny. I didn't know Perk was Bill Russell to most C's fans until after he got traded.

Yeah, I didn't know we traded Banner 18 until after it got traded either.

[BballTim]

Yeah, Sam Presti was the same GM who got thoroughly pantsed by Ainge in the Ray Allen deal. I think I'd be fairly careful about elevating him into the pantheon of NBA general managers.

  He was trying to rebuild around Durant and had to trade a 31 year old shooting guard coming off double ankle surgery who was owed over $50M on the remainder of his contract. What did you expect him to get back in trade? LeBron?

One grows used on this blog to the conflation of the true abilities of Danny's Kids - or as Peter May calls it, "an unemotional assessment."

It is kind of unique to see that conflation spread, though, to the GM who acquires one of the dear departed. Get back to me when a Presti team wins a playoff series.

  I didn't say Presti was a great gm. All I said was that it's pretty ridiculous to call getting a top 5 pick and a somewhat serviceable player like West for an injured shooting guard in his 30s with a huge contract getting thoroughly pantsed.

  Not for nothing, but we've discussed this very subject in the past:
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=37079.msg740642#msg740642

Exactly. Ainge is never going to be confused with Daryl Morey or Sam Presti. He's an average GM with an average track record. Some hits. Some very glaring misses, including some decisions I agreed with at the time, like Wallace, for example.

  Yes, they're both so much better than him that they'll build title winning teams much quicker than the 5 years it took Ainge. Everyone knows that the average GM can turn a team with a core of PP, Antoine and Vin Baker into nba champions in a short amount of time.

  Nice to see you've come around to my side on this.

[Roy H.]

That's funny. I didn't know Perk was Bill Russell to most C's fans until after he got traded.

I don't think a single fan has compared Perk to Russell in a positive way.  However, multiple people have called Perk "bad" or "worthless".  In other words, the hyperbolic sarcasm isn't really apt.

ok    I mean, I wasn't trying to offend. I just think there's been extremes on both sides of the aisle and this thread promotes that.

Yeah, but one extreme is something that people are actually saying, and the other is just a fictional straw man.  They're not really comparable in the discussion, in my opinion.

I think it's legit to say "I'm surprised how many Celtics fans think Perk was worthless".  Heck, I'm surprised by that vocal minority, too.  I guess a lot of folks were just waiting for him to get out of town before the knives came out, by and large.

I don't think it's legit to say "I'm surprised how many Celtics fans think Perk is the equivalent of Bill Russell", because (to my knowledge) no Celtics fan has actually ever made that claim.

[CoachBo]

Yeah, Sam Presti was the same GM who got thoroughly pantsed by Ainge in the Ray Allen deal. I think I'd be fairly careful about elevating him into the pantheon of NBA general managers.

  He was trying to rebuild around Durant and had to trade a 31 year old shooting guard coming off double ankle surgery who was owed over $50M on the remainder of his contract. What did you expect him to get back in trade? LeBron?

One grows used on this blog to the conflation of the true abilities of Danny's Kids - or as Peter May calls it, "an unemotional assessment."

It is kind of unique to see that conflation spread, though, to the GM who acquires one of the dear departed. Get back to me when a Presti team wins a playoff series.

  I didn't say Presti was a great gm. All I said was that it's pretty ridiculous to call getting a top 5 pick and a somewhat serviceable player like West for an injured shooting guard in his 30s with a huge contract getting thoroughly pantsed.

  Not for nothing, but we've discussed this very subject in the past:
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=37079.msg740642#msg740642

Exactly. Ainge is never going to be confused with Daryl Morey or Sam Presti. He's an average GM with an average track record. Some hits. Some very glaring misses, including some decisions I agreed with at the time, like Wallace, for example.

  Yes, they're both so much better than him that they'll build title winning teams much quicker than the 5 years it took Ainge. Everyone knows that the average GM can turn a team with a core of PP, Antoine and Vin Baker into nba champions in a short amount of time.

 Nice to see you've come around to my side on this.

My apologies. Must not have been able to find the tongue-in-cheek emoticon. I'm rather aware of Morey's resume, too. The point of the post, inclduing the reference to my own take, was that no one's going to win 100 percent of all player transactions. Sorry for the subtlety.

I'll be very shocked when and if the day comes that we agree on anything basketball or politically-related.

[Lucky17]

I do find it funny, reading some posters (a minority, still) calling Perk "worthless" and a "bum".  I especially enjoyed the comparison to Greg Kite.

The fact is, one of the best GMs in the NBA just gave up two starters (from a good playoff team) and a potential lottery pick for him.  Perk is valued around the league, even if some on CB don't think so.

What exactly makes Sam Presti one of the best GM´s in the nba? Because Bill Simmons said so? Because Kevin Pritchard took Greg Oden and the Zombies were able to land Durant?

The only impressive thing Presti has ever done was drafting Westbrook at #4, and I did the same in that year´s mock draft. OKC hasn´t won anything, yet, it´s a bit too early to call Presti one of the best GM´s in the league.

To be honest, Danny´s track record is way more impressive than Presti´s, in my opinion. Same goes for guys like Daryl Morey or R.C. Buford.

He turned a trade exception from the Rashard Lewis sign and trade into Kurt Thomas and two 1st round picks from Phoenix.
 
He then turned Kurt Thomas into another 1st round pick.

That's one of several examples of smartly leveraging cap space to acquire draft picks and other assets.

Another: he assumed the contract of Daequan Cook from Miami, in exchange for a first round pick that he used to draft Eric Bledsoe, whom he then flipped for the 2012 Clippers pick that Boston now owns.

He's also shown a great eye for young talent in whom he's drafted and traded for.

http://www.prosportstransactions.com/basketball/Search/SearchResults.php??Player=&Team=Thunder&PlayerMovementChkBx=yes&BeginDate=2007-6-7&submit=Search&start=0

Yep, and he won nothing, yet. Danny did all of this, too, and was way better at it, yet people want to take Presti´s opinion over Danny´s.

Ainge turned essentially a lousy first pick, Wally, Ratliff and Utah´s bench big (plus fillers) into KG, Ray Allen, Big Baby and a Clippers first, since we got Delonte and Green back now.

He picked guys like Rondo, Perk or Baby late in the first/early in the second. Sam Presti picked Westbrook and Harden, who I´d call average at best, in the top 5.

Smart leverage my rear end, that´s ten times more impressive.

I'm not trying to say Presti is better than Ainge. I'm merely responding to the statement that Presti isn't a good GM. He is. He turned a mediocre roster in Seattle into a high playoff seed in about the same time Ainge retooled the Celtics' roster from a basement team to a title contender.

[JSD]

That's funny. I didn't know Perk was Bill Russell to most C's fans until after he got traded.

I don't think a single fan has compared Perk to Russell in a positive way.  However, multiple people have called Perk "bad" or "worthless".  In other words, the hyperbolic sarcasm isn't really apt.

ok    I mean, I wasn't trying to offend. I just think there's been extremes on both sides of the aisle and this thread promotes that.

Yeah, but one extreme is something that people are actually saying, and the other is just a fictional straw man.  They're not really comparable in the discussion, in my opinion.

I think it's legit to say "I'm surprised how many Celtics fans think Perk was worthless".  Heck, I'm surprised by that vocal minority, too.  I guess a lot of folks were just waiting for him to get out of town before the knives came out, by and large.

I don't think it's legit to say "I'm surprised how many Celtics fans think Perk is the equivalent of Bill Russell", because (to my knowledge) no Celtics fan has actually ever made that claim.

Maybe you can link me to a couple (silly) posters that have called Perk worthless? Fine. But I think that's just as absurd as saying Perk is one of the greatest ball players of all time. Both are unnecessary extremes that I don't think represent the main opposing sides accurately. That was more my point than anything else.