Encouraging words from Ainge

[CoachBo]

I suspect it's none of the above.

Seems pretty clear that the Celtics didn't like Perkins' price and his health, so they chose to move him to address an issue that's already derailed one playoff run - rest for Pierce, and in this case, Garnett to a lesser degree.

We're going to cobble a three-headed or four-headed monster at center, and live with it to fill that void.

After watching OKC's horrific defensive effort last night, Perkins had better get well soon because he's got his work cut out for him. Orlando got whatever it wanted whenever it wanted it from all five spots on the floor.

[Jon]

I think there's a mistrust of Ainge because of what people believe to be his misleading words about KG in the '09 playoffs.  Here's why the situation is entirely different now.

1) First of, in '09, we don't know what might've happened had the C's made the Finals.  Maybe KG would've come back.  

2) By saying there's a shot he was coming back, he was potentially messing up the plans of the opposition, while simultaneously giving the C's players hope.  

3) It's nothing like that now.  Danny was (potentially) using lies in '09 because he had no other choice.  He was in a passive position where words were his only way out.  

4) This year, Danny actively supported his words by dealing Kendrick Perkins.  If Danny Ainge was lying about Shaq and/or Jermaine and/or being able to get another big man, he wouldn't have traded Perkins to begin with.  I don't understand how anyone could think otherwise unless you truly think Ainge doesn't give a [dang] about winning #18 this year.  

[jasail]

Nothing more than managing public perception and Perk has built himself a reputation in Boston.  He is that working class player Boston fans love and his injury last season was rather inaccurately portrayed as the reason we lost the finals.

Tough to manage that, but that is what Danny is doing. Talk about how they still have 2 7ft centers who are working their way back to health and ease the anxiety.  Look for a good 7 footer in a buy out.  If he can't get one he can fall back on the we still have Shaq and JO line and if that goes to crap then he can say that you can't see injuries coming.  

[Drucci]

This is from February 12:

The Celtics thought Shaquille O’Neal would be out for a few games with what they called an inflamed Achilles. A few games have lasted longer than they expected and now it seems unlikely that O’Neal will be back until after next weekend’s All-Star break at the earliest. . . .

“Semih’s out until after the break and Shaq will be too,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said following the team’s practice on Saturday. “We don’t even know if they’ll be back after the break right now. Semih’s groin is not improving and Shaq’s Achilles is not improving at all. We thought we’d have them both back by the last game, but that’s fine. We’re good.”

Rivers said Shaq’s injury has not gotten worse, but it hasn’t improved. “It just hasn’t healed,” the coach said. “It’s no worse, but it hasn’t healed as quickly.”

I think it's fair to be skeptical when the team now projects that Shaq and JO will be fully healthy.  I obviously hope they're right, but as far as injuries are concerned, I'm not sure that Danny's lip service deserves much benefit of the doubt.  The fact is, the team just doesn't know (which is why they were wrong on Shaq's injuries previously, and wrong on JO's, too.)

I agree with this 100 percent. Danny and everyone else is now talking a different game since they traded Perk. I hope they are not making things up, but I am pretty skeptical.

But shouldn't we look at it the other way around? Maybe Doc and Danny lied about Shaq's health prior to the deadline because it was a way of asking a lot more for Perkins on the trade market by saying "look he is our only healthy center, we want a lot of good pieces in exchange!". So basically making it look like Shaq wasn't going to get back before a long time would help Danny raise the price of Perk on the market.

Honestly I think it's a very probable explanation considering the official speech on Perk after he hurt his knee against GS was "he will be back in a week" and then since he got traded Danny said in a interview that Shaq will be back in a week and added "he would have returned really ealier than Perk anyway", which seems to indicate that the injury was worse than announced and would also mean that the double "speech" about the players' medical status is part of the NBA trade business.

I don't see this as a realistic possibility.  First, I don't think Danny was actively shopping Perk; I do believe that this was something that came about due to our need for a wing.

Second, I don't think Danny would risk us losing games just to showcase a player like Perk.  The Heat and Bulls are so close to us that it's pretty negligent to handicap our chances of winning.  I don't think the players would stand for it.

Third, if Shaq was healthy (or even close to it) I think he would have played against Denver.

In his latest interview (on WEEI) Ainge was asked if the trade came up on the day of the deadline or if it had been discussed before. He said that he makes phone calls during the season and that he already discussed this deal back in the early season or something like that so if it's probably Marquis' injury that made him feel like he was forced to pull the trigger, he certainly had the idea in mind for quite some time. My guess is that he started envisioning this scenario when he saw how good the team was with Shaq starting and without Perk and then kept it in mind considering the financial aspect of Perk's future as well as his health.

As for handicaping our chances of winning I don't think it really bothers Danny and the staff if they feel that resting Shaq longer is needed to keep him healthy for the playoffs and to avoid him rushing back during the season only to get hurt again. That would also explain why he didn't play against Denver : I think Danny and Doc have a set date for his return and decided to stick to it, regardless of the lack of centers that we have at the moment that may or may not have been planned.

Also, I agree with BudWeiser, I don't see why the staff would lie about injuries. It's one thing to lie about KG because of his importance and the fact that saying he would play in the playoffs would be wiser commercially (to sell tickets and keep the fanbase's confidence) but it's another to trade your only healthy center if you knew all along that you wouldn't be able to replace him this season because his two replacements are not healthy and won't get better.

I think Danny really is confident about JO and Shaq going forward and we can only hope he is basing his confidence on objective facts rather than blunt optimism. He may be a bold GM  but he is not crazy enough to lose Perk without some kind of assurance behind it, in my opinion.

[CoachBo]

I think you find encouragement in the sheer volume of options that exist at the 5 - Shaq, Krstic, JO, Baby, Garnett, Davis - and that's just as of today. And that's if no one else who can slide to the 5 is brought in.

The "who plays the 5 now?" argument against the Perkins deal becomes a bit of a strawman, IMHO, because of that volume.

And ... there's a very intriquing chance now to go small to close games, as we did in 2008 - Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Green and KG at the 5.

[billysan]

I think you find encouragement in the sheer volume of options that exist at the 5 - Shaq, Krstic, JO, Baby, Garnett, Davis - and that's just as of today. And that's if no one else who can slide to the 5 is brought in.

The "who plays the 5 now?" argument against the Perkins deal becomes a bit of a strawman, IMHO, because of that volume.

And ... there's a very intriquing chance now to go small to close games, as we did in 2008 - Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Green and KG at the 5.

Sorry, Davis and Baby are the same guy.


I do get your point and looked at it from a volume perspective it is encouraging that we have that many guys. Just remember that counting everyone you listed we still have to put someone at the PF slot. That makes your number a little smaller as does injury.

I think our going small lineup will have Baby Davis in place of Jeff Green for the foreseeable future. The fact that Green doesnt know the offense or defense will be too big of a factor in late games but if he catches on quickly then who knows?

[CoachBo]

Chuckle. Good catch, but it doesn't change the point - or eliminate the possibility of Murphy sliding in there if he signs on.

Lineup wise, I'm thinking more about the playoffs and the way we closed games with Posey at the 4 in 08. Green's a smart kid by all accounts, so I expect he'll learn the offense quickly. I'm less certain about the defense, given the mess he's coming out of in OKC>

[cman88]

In this case, I think actions speak louder than words.

Lets be honest. Ainge wouldnt trade away his only healthy center if he didnt at least have confirming evidence that Shaq would be healthy for the playoffs, and JO might be able to give us 10minutes a night. because Shaq IS going to be the starting center...So i see no reason for danny to lie about that.

And to be fair, who knows how bad Shaq's injury really is? he seemed fine throwing his legs around at allstar break..Doc seemed to maintain that he would play if it were the playoffs...I think they are being overly cautious with shaq because he is going to be an important in the playoffs. and 38year old centers shouldnt risk further injury in regular season games

[Andy Jick]

I've read this thread and I can only laugh...

Some of you guys parse down Danny's words like you're breaking down the constitution or a church homily. 

If Danny says it's partly cloudy or mostly sunny...remember, he's saying the same thing.

And lastly, since when has Danny been the bastion of truth?  His job is one of decisions, deception and maneuverability. 

As George Costanza once said..."It's not a lie...if YOU believe it."

[clover]

Interesting to see that Danny has modified his approach from "Shaq played better as a starter" to "I think it’ll be easier for Shaq to return in a starting position, which I think he has earned with his play this year."

The first argument, of course, was nothing but blatant spin, since Shaq never once played in a game for us where he wasn't the starter.  Apparently somebody reminded Danny of this fact, since he has now changed his argument.

Anyway, here are his splits for the past three months before Shaq got hurt:

November: 12.8 points, 7.6 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.2 turnovers, 3.5 fouls, 58.0 FT%, 69.4% FG%

December: 8.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 2.2 turnovers, 3.6 fouls, 63.2 FT%, 64.0 FG%

January: 7.9 points, 3.9 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 1.1 turnovers, 3.1 fouls, 48.4 FT%, 67.7 FG%

It's pretty clear that Shaq's play has declined a lot since his hot start.  His points and rebounds are way down, while his turnovers and fouls have either remained constant or increased.  I'm hopeful that with his extended rest, Shaq can come back closer to the player he was in November.  The guy we've seen most recently has been poor defensively and on the boards, and mediocre offensively.  

Listening to Danny, I believe he was outright saying that the numbers show Shaq has been better with the other starters than Perk has been.  Instead of spin, that was brutal honesty.  It also suggests a conflict whereby their starting the more effective guy could have left Perk so disgruntled that not only would the vaunted 'chemistry' have been soured, but Perk's departure at the end of the year could have been assured.

To play devils advocate, Perk was injured so his numbers would not have been as good, yet. He was just getting back into game shape it seemed. Maybe later in the season his rebounding especially would have surpassed these, I believe.

That may be, but Danny has said repeatedly now that Shaq has been good enough to start and that starting will be better for him.  And I can sure see a disgruntled contract-year Perk if they followed through with that once Shaq was back.

[bruinsandceltics]

This is from February 12:

The Celtics thought Shaquille O’Neal would be out for a few games with what they called an inflamed Achilles. A few games have lasted longer than they expected and now it seems unlikely that O’Neal will be back until after next weekend’s All-Star break at the earliest. . . .

“Semih’s out until after the break and Shaq will be too,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said following the team’s practice on Saturday. “We don’t even know if they’ll be back after the break right now. Semih’s groin is not improving and Shaq’s Achilles is not improving at all. We thought we’d have them both back by the last game, but that’s fine. We’re good.”

Rivers said Shaq’s injury has not gotten worse, but it hasn’t improved. “It just hasn’t healed,” the coach said. “It’s no worse, but it hasn’t healed as quickly.”

I think it's fair to be skeptical when the team now projects that Shaq and JO will be fully healthy.  I obviously hope they're right, but as far as injuries are concerned, I'm not sure that Danny's lip service deserves much benefit of the doubt.  The fact is, the team just doesn't know (which is why they were wrong on Shaq's injuries previously, and wrong on JO's, too.)

You don't need to listen to what Danny says if you don't want. Because actions speak much louder than words. Danny's actions show us exactly how he feels about the health of the two O'Neal's.

[CelticG1]

This is from February 12:

The Celtics thought Shaquille O’Neal would be out for a few games with what they called an inflamed Achilles. A few games have lasted longer than they expected and now it seems unlikely that O’Neal will be back until after next weekend’s All-Star break at the earliest. . . .

“Semih’s out until after the break and Shaq will be too,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said following the team’s practice on Saturday. “We don’t even know if they’ll be back after the break right now. Semih’s groin is not improving and Shaq’s Achilles is not improving at all. We thought we’d have them both back by the last game, but that’s fine. We’re good.”

Rivers said Shaq’s injury has not gotten worse, but it hasn’t improved. “It just hasn’t healed,” the coach said. “It’s no worse, but it hasn’t healed as quickly.”

I think it's fair to be skeptical when the team now projects that Shaq and JO will be fully healthy.  I obviously hope they're right, but as far as injuries are concerned, I'm not sure that Danny's lip service deserves much benefit of the doubt.  The fact is, the team just doesn't know (which is why they were wrong on Shaq's injuries previously, and wrong on JO's, too.)

The Shaq being injured thing is so overblown. Has he ever been injured in the playoffs? Has he ever been ineffective in the playoffs? Shaq always misses huge portions of the season. If Shaq was on any other contender on the league everyone would be talking about how he's not really injured and how he's just resting and preparing for the playoffs because thats what he does every year. Since he is on our team everybody is blowing his "injury" way out of proportion. If we were in the playoffs now there is no doubt Shaq would be playing. But we aren't so they are coddling him like they should. He played 53 games for Cleveland last year and sure enough was ready for the playoffs. Shaq is not injured plain and simple.

[clover]

In this case, I think actions speak louder than words.

Lets be honest. Ainge wouldnt trade away his only healthy center if he didnt at least have confirming evidence that Shaq would be healthy for the playoffs, and JO might be able to give us 10minutes a night. because Shaq IS going to be the starting center...So i see no reason for danny to lie about that.

And to be fair, who knows how bad Shaq's injury really is? he seemed fine throwing his legs around at allstar break..Doc seemed to maintain that he would play if it were the playoffs...I think they are being overly cautious with shaq because he is going to be an important in the playoffs. and 38year old centers shouldnt risk further injury in regular season games

Part of Doc and Danny's success is their ability to combine candor with subterfuge.

[moiso]

HUGE if but if jermaine is healthy he is the most rounded of all the centers we have or had.

So true and so scary.