Encouraging words from Ainge

[billysan]

Interesting to see that Danny has modified his approach from "Shaq played better as a starter" to "I think it’ll be easier for Shaq to return in a starting position, which I think he has earned with his play this year."

The first argument, of course, was nothing but blatant spin, since Shaq once played in a game for us where he wasn't the starter.  Apparently somebody reminded Danny of this fact, since he has now changed his argument.

Anyway, here are his splits for the past three months before Shaq got hurt:

November: 12.8 points, 7.6 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.2 turnovers, 3.5 fouls, 58.0 FT%, 69.4% FG%

December: 8.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 2.2 turnovers, 3.6 fouls, 63.2 FT%, 64.0 FG%

January: 7.9 points, 3.9 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 1.1 turnovers, 3.1 fouls, 48.4 FT%, 67.7 FG%

It's pretty clear that Shaq's play has declined a lot since his hot start.  His points and rebounds are way down, while his turnovers and fouls have either remained constant or increased.  I'm hopeful that with his extended rest, Shaq can come back closer to the player he was in November.  The guy we've seen most recently has been poor defensively and on the boards, and mediocre offensively.  

Good points about Shaqs drop in production Roy, TP.

I highlighted the rebounds numbers because this is where we will really be hurt and that trend could have been a precoursor to the sore achilles outcome by themselves. No achilles, no legs.

Obviously the points can be replaced easily enough but the picks passing and toughness in the paint are beyond value without Perk on board. We will be down to Davis taking charges from a physicality standpoint without the Diesel.

[vinnie]

This is from February 12:

The Celtics thought Shaquille O’Neal would be out for a few games with what they called an inflamed Achilles. A few games have lasted longer than they expected and now it seems unlikely that O’Neal will be back until after next weekend’s All-Star break at the earliest. . . .

“Semih’s out until after the break and Shaq will be too,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said following the team’s practice on Saturday. “We don’t even know if they’ll be back after the break right now. Semih’s groin is not improving and Shaq’s Achilles is not improving at all. We thought we’d have them both back by the last game, but that’s fine. We’re good.”

Rivers said Shaq’s injury has not gotten worse, but it hasn’t improved. “It just hasn’t healed,” the coach said. “It’s no worse, but it hasn’t healed as quickly.”

I think it's fair to be skeptical when the team now projects that Shaq and JO will be fully healthy.  I obviously hope they're right, but as far as injuries are concerned, I'm not sure that Danny's lip service deserves much benefit of the doubt.  The fact is, the team just doesn't know (which is why they were wrong on Shaq's injuries previously, and wrong on JO's, too.)

I agree with this 100 percent. Danny and everyone else is now talking a different game since they traded Perk. I hope they are not making things up, but I am pretty skeptical.

[Drucci]

This is from February 12:

The Celtics thought Shaquille O’Neal would be out for a few games with what they called an inflamed Achilles. A few games have lasted longer than they expected and now it seems unlikely that O’Neal will be back until after next weekend’s All-Star break at the earliest. . . .

“Semih’s out until after the break and Shaq will be too,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said following the team’s practice on Saturday. “We don’t even know if they’ll be back after the break right now. Semih’s groin is not improving and Shaq’s Achilles is not improving at all. We thought we’d have them both back by the last game, but that’s fine. We’re good.”

Rivers said Shaq’s injury has not gotten worse, but it hasn’t improved. “It just hasn’t healed,” the coach said. “It’s no worse, but it hasn’t healed as quickly.”

I think it's fair to be skeptical when the team now projects that Shaq and JO will be fully healthy.  I obviously hope they're right, but as far as injuries are concerned, I'm not sure that Danny's lip service deserves much benefit of the doubt.  The fact is, the team just doesn't know (which is why they were wrong on Shaq's injuries previously, and wrong on JO's, too.)

I agree with this 100 percent. Danny and everyone else is now talking a different game since they traded Perk. I hope they are not making things up, but I am pretty skeptical.

But shouldn't we look at it the other way around? Maybe Doc and Danny lied about Shaq's health prior to the deadline because it was a way of asking a lot more for Perkins on the trade market by saying "look he is our only healthy center, we want a lot of good pieces in exchange!". So basically making it look like Shaq wasn't going to get back before a long time would help Danny raise the price of Perk on the market.

Honestly I think it's a very probable explanation considering the official speech on Perk after he hurt his knee against GS was "he will be back in a week" and then since he got traded Danny said in a interview that Shaq will be back in a week and added "he would have returned really ealier than Perk anyway", which seems to indicate that the injury was worse than announced and would also mean that the double "speech" about the players' medical status is part of the NBA trade business.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm fine with being skeptical about the assessment and question accuracy, but why does everything have to hinge on them purposely lying to us? Injuries, particularly sports injuries, are very hard to assess.

[Roy H.]

This is from February 12:

The Celtics thought Shaquille O’Neal would be out for a few games with what they called an inflamed Achilles. A few games have lasted longer than they expected and now it seems unlikely that O’Neal will be back until after next weekend’s All-Star break at the earliest. . . .

“Semih’s out until after the break and Shaq will be too,” Celtics coach Doc Rivers said following the team’s practice on Saturday. “We don’t even know if they’ll be back after the break right now. Semih’s groin is not improving and Shaq’s Achilles is not improving at all. We thought we’d have them both back by the last game, but that’s fine. We’re good.”

Rivers said Shaq’s injury has not gotten worse, but it hasn’t improved. “It just hasn’t healed,” the coach said. “It’s no worse, but it hasn’t healed as quickly.”

I think it's fair to be skeptical when the team now projects that Shaq and JO will be fully healthy.  I obviously hope they're right, but as far as injuries are concerned, I'm not sure that Danny's lip service deserves much benefit of the doubt.  The fact is, the team just doesn't know (which is why they were wrong on Shaq's injuries previously, and wrong on JO's, too.)

I agree with this 100 percent. Danny and everyone else is now talking a different game since they traded Perk. I hope they are not making things up, but I am pretty skeptical.

But shouldn't we look at it the other way around? Maybe Doc and Danny lied about Shaq's health prior to the deadline because it was a way of asking a lot more for Perkins on the trade market by saying "look he is our only healthy center, we want a lot of good pieces in exchange!". So basically making it look like Shaq wasn't going to get back before a long time would help Danny raise the price of Perk on the market.

Honestly I think it's a very probable explanation considering the official speech on Perk after he hurt his knee against GS was "he will be back in a week" and then since he got traded Danny said in a interview that Shaq will be back in a week and added "he would have returned really ealier than Perk anyway", which seems to indicate that the injury was worse than announced and would also mean that the double "speech" about the players' medical status is part of the NBA trade business.

I don't see this as a realistic possibility.  First, I don't think Danny was actively shopping Perk; I do believe that this was something that came about due to our need for a wing.

Second, I don't think Danny would risk us losing games just to showcase a player like Perk.  The Heat and Bulls are so close to us that it's pretty negligent to handicap our chances of winning.  I don't think the players would stand for it.

Third, if Shaq was healthy (or even close to it) I think he would have played against Denver.

[billysan]

I don't see this as a realistic possibility.  First, I don't think Danny was actively shopping Perk; I do believe that this was something that came about due to our need for a wing.

Second, I don't think Danny would risk us losing games just to showcase a player like Perk.  The Heat and Bulls are so close to us that it's pretty negligent to handicap our chances of winning.  I don't think the players would stand for it.

Third, if Shaq was healthy (or even close to it) I think he would have played against Denver.

You could say the same about JO with regard to his health.

So do you believe that Danny has an ace up his sleeve with regard to an acquisition? Or do you believe he was taking a big gamble here about player availablility?

Not saying your theories arent sound, but it doesnt leave the team with much of a chance at winning if we trade away most of our bigs and the remaining arent healthy beyond KG, Davis and Krstic.

[clover]

Interesting to see that Danny has modified his approach from "Shaq played better as a starter" to "I think it’ll be easier for Shaq to return in a starting position, which I think he has earned with his play this year."

The first argument, of course, was nothing but blatant spin, since Shaq never once played in a game for us where he wasn't the starter.  Apparently somebody reminded Danny of this fact, since he has now changed his argument.

Anyway, here are his splits for the past three months before Shaq got hurt:

November: 12.8 points, 7.6 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.2 turnovers, 3.5 fouls, 58.0 FT%, 69.4% FG%

December: 8.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 2.2 turnovers, 3.6 fouls, 63.2 FT%, 64.0 FG%

January: 7.9 points, 3.9 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 1.1 turnovers, 3.1 fouls, 48.4 FT%, 67.7 FG%

It's pretty clear that Shaq's play has declined a lot since his hot start.  His points and rebounds are way down, while his turnovers and fouls have either remained constant or increased.  I'm hopeful that with his extended rest, Shaq can come back closer to the player he was in November.  The guy we've seen most recently has been poor defensively and on the boards, and mediocre offensively.  

Listening to Danny, I believe he was outright saying that the numbers show Shaq has been better with the other starters than Perk has been.  Instead of spin, that was brutal honesty.  It also suggests a conflict whereby their starting the more effective guy could have left Perk so disgruntled that not only would the vaunted 'chemistry' have been soured, but Perk's departure at the end of the year could have been assured.

[billysan]

Interesting to see that Danny has modified his approach from "Shaq played better as a starter" to "I think it’ll be easier for Shaq to return in a starting position, which I think he has earned with his play this year."

The first argument, of course, was nothing but blatant spin, since Shaq never once played in a game for us where he wasn't the starter.  Apparently somebody reminded Danny of this fact, since he has now changed his argument.

Anyway, here are his splits for the past three months before Shaq got hurt:

November: 12.8 points, 7.6 rebounds, 0.8 assists, 1.2 turnovers, 3.5 fouls, 58.0 FT%, 69.4% FG%

December: 8.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, 0.4 assists, 2.2 turnovers, 3.6 fouls, 63.2 FT%, 64.0 FG%

January: 7.9 points, 3.9 rebounds, 0.9 assists, 1.1 turnovers, 3.1 fouls, 48.4 FT%, 67.7 FG%

It's pretty clear that Shaq's play has declined a lot since his hot start.  His points and rebounds are way down, while his turnovers and fouls have either remained constant or increased.  I'm hopeful that with his extended rest, Shaq can come back closer to the player he was in November.  The guy we've seen most recently has been poor defensively and on the boards, and mediocre offensively.  

Listening to Danny, I believe he was outright saying that the numbers show Shaq has been better with the other starters than Perk has been.  Instead of spin, that was brutal honesty.  It also suggests a conflict whereby their starting the more effective guy could have left Perk so disgruntled that not only would the vaunted 'chemistry' have been soured, but Perk's departure at the end of the year could have been assured.

To play devils advocate, Perk was injured so his numbers would not have been as good, yet. He was just getting back into game shape it seemed. Maybe later in the season his rebounding especially would have surpassed these, I believe.

[Celtics4ever]

Earlier in the season, Shaq did a good job on Dwight.   He didn't give up 28 and held him to less than single digits.  I think it was six if memory serves.  Shaq isn't as a good as defender as Perk or Jermaine in terms of footspeed and help defense.  But as to denying post position he is vastly superior to either with his superior strength and size.  Against a power center that relies on strength he is more than adequate.  Both Bynum and Howard are strength centers with little finesse.

Shaq is definitely in decline.  During his heyday he was a top ten center easily.  He isn't anymore.  One area I thought he was superior to KP was catching and finishing Rondo's dump off passes.  I doubt we have seen the Diesel's best efforts.   He is old and vet and isn't going to play hard unless game matters.

Perk could have been hurt but Shaq could have been hurt too.  I just don't see Danny doing this unless he was pretty confident.

[celticinorlando]

anything we get out of JO is a bonus to me...

[action781]

Interesting to see that Danny has modified his approach from "Shaq played better as a starter" to "I think it’ll be easier for Shaq to return in a starting position, which I think he has earned with his play this year."

The first argument, of course, was nothing but blatant spin, since Shaq never once played in a game for us where he wasn't the starter.  Apparently somebody reminded Danny of this fact, since he has now changed his argument.
 

About your first paragraph, I found that interesting that I never caught that.  I think the reason why is because I originally interpreted that quote differently when I first heard it.  I interpreted it as "Shaq played better as a starter [than Perkins]" rather than "Shaq played better as a starter [than off the bench]".  Do you think that his new quote is really him changing his argument or that he is simply stating an additional thought?

[Onslaught]

anything we get out of JO is a bonus to me...

True, seeing that we've got nothing from him so far. One point would be a big improvement.

[pearljammer10]

Earlier in the season, Shaq did a good job on Dwight.   He didn't give up 28 and held him to less than single digits.  I think it was six if memory serves.  Shaq isn't as a good as defender as Perk or Jermaine in terms of footspeed and help defense.  But as to denying post position he is vastly superior to either with his superior strength and size.  Against a power center that relies on strength he is more than adequate.  Both Bynum and Howard are strength centers with little finesse.

Shaq is definitely in decline.  During his heyday he was a top ten center easily.  He isn't anymore.  One area I thought he was superior to KP was catching and finishing Rondo's dump off passes.  I doubt we have seen the Diesel's best efforts.   He is old and vet and isn't going to play hard unless game matters.

Perk could have been hurt but Shaq could have been hurt too.  I just don't see Danny doing this unless he was pretty confident.

I would say so... Its hard to argue against Shaq being in the top three centers of all time, let alone top ten in his heyday.

[pearljammer10]

I think the key will be Jermaine and I must admit it's encouraging to hear these quotes from Danny. Maybe it's just talk but I don't see why he would say this if it was untrue especially after the disappointing year and many failed comebacks from JO this season.

Danny must be happy with JO's production after surgery to let Perk go. I agree with you, I think JO is the key here. If he can come back and give us minutes like he was starting to before he went down its going to be huge. He was blocking shots and playing really good defense. His offense was fairly terrible but as long as he can be that defensive presence for us, that will be huge.

[billysan]

I think the key will be Jermaine and I must admit it's encouraging to hear these quotes from Danny. Maybe it's just talk but I don't see why he would say this if it was untrue especially after the disappointing year and many failed comebacks from JO this season.

Danny must be happy with JO's production after surgery to let Perk go. I agree with you, I think JO is the key here. If he can come back and give us minutes like he was starting to before he went down its going to be huge. He was blocking shots and playing really good defense. His offense was fairly terrible but as long as he can be that defensive presence for us, that will be huge.

Could also be his fallback position if the trade(s) and signings dont work out. "......and we had injuries to our bigmen that really hurt us this year...." JO is not a guy I would I would place a lot of trust in from a health standpoint at this stage of his career.