Danny Deserves the Benefit of the Doubt

[CoachBo]

"Now you're reaching. They have nothing whatsoever to accurately measure what Green was brought here to do. Which one's going to tell me directly how much better Pierce and Garnett's playoff performance is based on the rest they received from Green?

Answer: None. Just the eyes of the people who understand the game.

Use them as your bible. I don't care. I use my eyes and my experience in the game. I don't need a meaningless number."


This is almost hilarious. But actually, please, I'd love to know with your enlightened eyes what it is that he was brought here to do. Is he not supposed to defense? Because there is no evidence in his NBA career that he ever has. Was he brought into rebound? Because he's been a poor one his whole career. Or am I reading too much into these new-fangled "stat'-thingys?

Was he brought into score at an inefficient rate? For example, does your experience in the game (and your eyes) tell you that it takes Green 13 shots to score 15 points this year?

What is it that you see that I am not gifted enough to see?

Nice collection of declarative statements, sans evidence. I'm sure the people who are angry about this trade will buy them - if they believe that every game is a boilerplate, which is the one major flaw in your reasoning.

Different systems, different teams, different players, different results. That's real basketball.

I harken back to that summer night in 2007 when the masses over here were livid because Ray Allen couldn't guard a chair.

Didn't turn out that way, did it?

If it makes you feel better to believe that it's absolutely impossible for Jeff Green's production to improve, or even move, in a totally different system with a totally different set of expectations, then feel better. There's a small percentage that you're right - or that a meteor will strike LeBron James' garage tonight.

For me, all the anguish on this blog makes me feel slightly better. I haven't forgotten how thoroughly absurd and off-base the reactions were here to the Allen and Garnett trades.

Not as much as coaching for more than 20 years and watching 33 - I counted them - Thunder games, including seven in person. Basketball isn't a boilerplate game. Never has been, never will be.

Nobody's perfect. Ainge isn't. I'm not. But I like my chances.

[Eja117]

I kinda feel like the title of this thread should have been

"Who ya gonna believe? Danny Ainge or your own lying eyes?"

[CoachBo]

Amazing day. Went into it thinking nothing of note would happen.

[Chief]

I kinda feel like the title of this thread should have been

"Who ya gonna believe? Danny Ainge or your own lying eyes?"

I never doubt Ainge.

[ACF]

In Danny I trust

After the dust has settled, me too.

[Onslaught]

Now that we hear that our veterans are "livid" over the trade I wonder if they trust Danny?

[winsomme]

I kinda feel like the title of this thread should have been

"Who ya gonna believe? Danny Ainge or your own lying eyes?"

I never doubt Ainge.

I have a hard time criticizing DA, but his explanations are more worrisome than the moves themselves.

Perk wanting 30 mil instead of 22 mil?? They couldn't afford to up their contract to 30 mil?

Not being able to play Perk, Shaq, and JO?? Um, Shaq and JO have almost no guarantee of being able to play come playoff time.

We've beaten everybody without Perk?? Who exactly are going to be our bigs? I mean Shaq and JO have a fraction of a season with our squad. Perk is tested in our system.

I don't know. These reasons make it seem like Danny panicked.

Jeff Green better be a beast. That's the only way this makes any sense.

[ACF]

Now that we hear that our veterans are "livid" over the trade I wonder if they trust Danny?

Of course they would be shocked, just like everyone else. But think of this, do you really think that Danny would trade one of the best defensive centers in the league if he didn't have a good reason? We'll be okay. Danny's got a plan.

[Onslaught]

Now that we hear that our veterans are "livid" over the trade I wonder if they trust Danny?

Of course they would be shocked, just like everyone else. But think of this, do you really think that Danny would trade one of the best defensive centers in the league if he didn't have a good reason? We'll be okay. Danny's got a plan.

Do I hope he had a good reason that perhaps we don't know about? Yes.
 And if it turns out to be true then I won't bash him about it.

But as of right now I don't see it. We do not have any reliable centers now. And him saying that "JO is only 31" isn't helping my nerves any. My dad is 62 and has better knees then Jo at 31.

I'll hold out until I see who he picks up before I go ballistic over this one. But I can't act like I think this was a good idea. I've got green colored glasses on but it won't keep me from seeing red.

[soap07]

Nice collection of declarative statements, sans evidence. I'm sure the people who are angry about this trade will buy them - if they believe that every game is a boilerplate, which is the one major flaw in your reasoning.

Sans evidence? Have you read this thread?

In the statements that have been made:

Jeff Green is not a good rebounder. Evidence: He has a career 9.5 rebound percentage, meaning he grabs 9.5% percent of available rebounds, this is not a very good rate. Perk, for example, a very good rebounder, is at 16 or so.

Jeff Green is not a very good defender. Evidence: He has a career 109 defensive rating, meaning that when he's on the floor, his team gives up 109 points per 100 possessions. That's not a "sabremetric" stat - that is a stat. On his own team this year, he is tied for second worst on the team.

Other evidence that has been posted and promptly/conveniently ignored by you: Perk - better PER and Win Shares/48. I can certainly understand not trusting sabremetrics...

But I have provided numerous pieces of evidence that Green is, indeed, a poor rebounder and defender.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary that you can provide? Other than your eyes and experience?

I harken back to that summer night in 2007 when the masses over here were livid because Ray Allen couldn't guard a chair.

Didn't turn out that way, did it?

What does this have to do with anything? Is it your point then, with your eyes and experience, that any player who spends a whole career being one of the worst defenders on his team will definitely become a better defender/rebounder just because he's on the Celtics?

Different systems, different teams, different players, different results. That's real basketball.

Um, yes? What? I don't understand what this even means. I thought real basketball consisted of playing a game.

[ACF]

Now that we hear that our veterans are "livid" over the trade I wonder if they trust Danny?

Of course they would be shocked, just like everyone else. But think of this, do you really think that Danny would trade one of the best defensive centers in the league if he didn't have a good reason? We'll be okay. Danny's got a plan.

Do I hope he had a good reason that perhaps we don't know about? Yes.
 And if it turns out to be true then I won't bash him about it.

But as of right now I don't see it. We do not have any reliable centers now. And him saying that "JO is only 31" isn't helping my nerves any. My dad is 62 and has better knees then Jo at 31.

I'll hold out until I see who he picks up before I go ballistic over this one. But I can't act like I think this was a good idea. I've got green colored glasses on but it won't keep me from seeing red.

Tell your dad to go lace 'em up 

[pearljammer10]

Love Perk but he is not the best player in this trade.

I disagree.  Perk has proven himself as a starter on a championship team.  Green might put up better numbers, but Perk was a perfect cog in our machine.  Also, if you knock his rebounding, I feel bad for when you see Krstic.

Also, I think you're vastly overrating Green.  He's a decent player, but he can't "defend anybody in the NBA".  He's a pretty good defender at SF, and a poor one at PF.  He's nowhere near as good as Lamar Odom.  Rather, he's a good but not great player.

I think Perk is pretty clearly the most important player here, which is why OKC gave up two players, a potential lottery pick, and took on salary for him.

Its sickening how underrated Perk is to this Celtics team. To disrupt a championship teams chemistry by trading their starting center doesnt make a lot of sense to me. We instantly loose our toughness replacing Perk with Kristic. Perks ability to play D alongside KG and change penetrators minds on going to the basket is going to be greatly missed. Defense wins championships and we traded one of the best defensive centers in the league. We have worried about length and defensive underneath all year dating back to last year, and we trade the biggest asset we have in that department?? Yes we needed a backup 3, but our starting center is much more important than that. Green is vastly overrated that has trouble defending other fours. I think this costs us banner number 18.

[davemonsterband]

I LOVE DANNY AINGE!!!

As always, he knows something we don't know.

Is this Perk's peak? Will he ever be worth more than he is now? I doubt it.

Let's see the Spurs hang with this new squad if they make it to the Finals.

Danny knows. Larry should have been traded. Perk can go. The love can never be stronger than what we all have for him, but he won't deserve what he's going to get paid, you can't reward everyone.

What matters is the core, the core is 4 deep, not 5.

I love it. He'll always be Perk. Eventually, they'll all go, we're going to have to get used to it.

I wanted Jeff Green on draft day. I'm probably biased. I think he's better than everyone here today is saying.

I'm ecstatic. Rondo and Jeff Green. Celtics 2.0 is starting to shape up finally. Looking good...

[LilRip]

the next thing to watch is how those 3 roster spots will be filled. that and Shaq's health.

[Q_FBE]

The thing to remember about Danny is he trades everyone.... It is in his blood since 1989 when Red Auerbach shipped him out to Sacremento. He had the audacity to suggest to Red Auerbach to trade Bird Parish and McHale. I am afraid this is the new Celtics way like it or not. It is what it is. I don't care for this approach but this is not a good time for most teams in the NBA. We have this negative influence of David Stern, World Wide Wes (Miami Heat and New York Knicks), and the Laker Curse working constantly against us.

We [dang] near traded Ray Allen last year and if we did, we would have been an early out and then we lose Pierce. Then Doc Rivers resigns and Rondo gets traded and we get to look forward to years of the lottery conundrum. I thought glories last shot was last year but there is something Danny knows and you and I don't. Enough preaching to the choir......

Time to sleep this off.