Danny Deserves the Benefit of the Doubt

[hpantazo]

Love Perk but he is not the best player in this trade.

I disagree.  Perk has proven himself as a starter on a championship team.  Green might put up better numbers, but Perk was a perfect cog in our machine.  Also, if you knock his rebounding, I feel bad for when you see Krstic.

Also, I think you're vastly overrating Green.  He's a decent player, but he can't "defend anybody in the NBA".  He's a pretty good defender at SF, and a poor one at PF.  He's nowhere near as good as Lamar Odom.  Rather, he's a good but not great player.

I think Perk is pretty clearly the most important player here, which is why OKC gave up two players, a potential lottery pick, and took on salary for him.

If Shaq gets healthy, he can do everything Perk did (and do it wiser without the loud mouth)...  We won't miss him, Roy.

I agree except for the part about the loud mouth, Shaq is up there with him

Let me rephrase that: without all the needless technical fouls.

Lol, yea, much better. And without the moving picks

[Roy H.]

I am genuinely shocked that multiple fans think that Shaq's defense is as good as Perk's.  Truly flabbergasted.  I understand liking Shaq better on the offensive end, but on defense, the two simply aren't close.

[CeltsAcumen]

While I think the original poster has a differing view, Green is not a good defensive player.  He is not known for his defense or rebounding, two things Perk was good at.

Whether this changes in the future with the Celts, we will see, but I believe people on this board are over-estimating Green's Defense and rebound and undervaluing Perk's.

But we will see.  Trust me if the Celts dont win the championship, Ainge will be fired.

The public outcry will be too much for the Celts to ignore.

[hpantazo]

danny just on weei....

1. hard to let perk go…agononized over the decision
2. shaq will return next week
3. expects JO to be full go by april and feels he is a big piece going forward...felt shaq played very well with starters and was best used as a starter
4. danny was worried about the injuries…esp with erden and perk
5. they will look to sign 3 guys…a big, wing and a guard in that order…
6. had an eye on the other contenders when they made this deal
7. they know who they want in buy outs and said they are ready to pounce as soon as they can..
8. would love to sign either a great defender or a great shooter
9. johnson is a guy that is going to get them through until next week when kristic comes and shaq returns
10. said shaq is closer to returning that perk was

thanks for the rundown. It makes more sense now if Ainge was really worried about Perk and Erden's health for this season. It sounds like he is pretty confident about Shaq and JO's health. If he's right, then this was an excellent move for now and the future. Specifically stating that he had the other contenders in mind when making this deal should quiet down all the talk that we are giving up this year.

[hpantazo]

I am genuinely shocked that multiple fans think that Shaq's defense is as good as Perk's.  Truly flabbergasted.  I understand liking Shaq better on the offensive end, but on defense, the two simply aren't close.

Shaq's defense is nowhere near Perk's. But if Perk's lateral movement is questionable for the rest of this season then I would go with Shaq. It sounds like Ainge is pretty hopeful on JO too, and his defense could be huge for us.

[CoachBo]

The idea that Green is a poor defender is nonsense. He is a product of a system that doesn't play any.

His feet are fine. He will flourish in Boston's defensive system.

[hpantazo]

some people are also forgetting all the long scoring droughts we tend to have, like the one we had in game 7 that helped cost us the title. Green should help a lot with that.

[indeedproceed]

The idea that Green is a poor defender is nonsense. He is a product of a system that doesn't play any.

His feet are fine. He will flourish in Boston's defensive system.

That's a possibility, but Ibaka is not a poor defender, Sefolosha is not a poor defender,Westbrook is not a poor defender..and they're all in the same system.

Saying they don't play defense in that system doesn't make a ton of sense.

[Jon]

Again, I'd say, let's see who the final 3 players are on this roster.  If they get a guy like Samuel Dalembert or even Troy Murphy, things will be looking significantly better. 

[Kiorrik]

My hands are itching to change the topic title to "deserves to get shot"

[Kane3387]

Love Perk but he is not the best player in this trade.

I disagree.  Perk has proven himself as a starter on a championship team.  Green might put up better numbers, but Perk was a perfect cog in our machine.  Also, if you knock his rebounding, I feel bad for when you see Krstic.

Also, I think you're vastly overrating Green.  He's a decent player, but he can't "defend anybody in the NBA".  He's a pretty good defender at SF, and a poor one at PF.  He's nowhere near as good as Lamar Odom.  Rather, he's a good but not great player.

I think Perk is pretty clearly the most important player here, which is why OKC gave up two players, a potential lottery pick, and took on salary for him.

If Shaq gets healthy, he can do everything Perk did (and do it wiser without the loud mouth)...  We won't miss him, Roy.

Even assuming Shaq gets healthy, he's nowhere near as good of a defender as Perk.  He lacks lateral movement, he can't defend the pick-and-roll, and he fouls too much.  He's simply not Perk's equal, and again, that's assuming he stays healthy.

I'm a Shaq fan, but let's not oversell him.

I understand your loyalty to Perk. I love the guy. Green can play. I watched him all last season (Worked for the Thunder). He sacrificed a lot of his game. He is not a PF. He is a SF. He just wasn't going to make the team play Durant outside of his natural position. He is a lot like Posey in his positional abilities, but obviously a much more explosive version.

We had the best defense in the league while Perk was out. Let's be real. The NBA is a predominately Pick and Roll league and KG & Rondo are two of the best if not the best at their positions at shutting it down. Again Perk was a great compliment to our team, but THIS team is almost gone. You have to make this move to set yourself up for the future while not losing much this year. We don't lose much. People are so worried about LA and Orlando when they shouldn't be.

Look at who finishes games at the PF/C position for elite teams:

ORL - Howard/Bass
LAL - Gasol/Odom
Mia - Bosh/Haslem
SAS - Duncan/Blair or McDyess
DAL - Chandler/Dirk
CHI - Noah/Boozer
BOS - KG/BBD

All those teams are teams that don't finish the game with two 7 footers. Who cares who starts? It's about who finishes. Green matches up well with Dirk and Odom. BBD the rest. Pair them with KG and we are very good. We've been center by committee all year and will continue to be but now we have that guy who can physically match up with Melo, LBJ, Wade, Deng, etc.

To me this is all about Miami, Dal, and SAS. I think the Celtics do not fear Orlando or LAL as much as the others due to matchups. Howard shredded Perk in our last game and we won. It's not about Perk as much as it is team defense, rotations to shooters, and not doubling Dwight. It's funny because the game Orlando won on Xmas was Howard's worst game by far.

Green will help guard Ginobli & Jefferson. Sparing Ray and Paul. Green will be our second best defender for Dirk. MOST IMPORTANTLY Green will help guard Lebron.

Remember Pierce rarely gives anything efficiently on offense when he plays against James because he is so drained on defense. In a series with all the game planning that takes place it will be huge to have a more fresh Pierce. Green can guard both James and Wade much like Tony Allen did last year but be much better offensively.

I eagerly await your response. = )

[CoachBo]

The idea that Green is a poor defender is nonsense. He is a product of a system that doesn't play any.

His feet are fine. He will flourish in Boston's defensive system.

That's a possibility, but Ibaka is not a poor defender, Sefolosha is not a poor defender,Westbrook is not a poor defender..and they're all in the same system.

Saying they don't play defense in that system doesn't make a ton of sense.

Totally disagree. There isn't a good on-ball defender on that team, and Scott Brooks doesn't teach it. At all. Out here, they're our local TV team and they simply are not a good defensive basketball team. OKC is a below average defensive team.

Westbrook could play Celtic defense if a coach demanded it. Don't like either one of the other two as players, on either end.

[Lucky17]

I agree, he has earned it. Did he ever make it onto WEEI today to talk about the moves?

From the RealGM forum:

Recap: Ainge said:

- Jeff Green is a terrific player. Celtics have targeted Green for a while.
- We like Krstic. He is a terrific shooter. He complements Rondo's game
- We offered Perkins all that we could offer him. He wanted to test the market. It was a concern.
- Feels trade makes the Celtics better now.
- Feels Shaq and JO will be healthy.
- Ainge was close to Perkins. He shed some tears today with Perkins.
- Trade was a very difficult trade to make.
- Ainge feels team will give Krstic and Green a chance. In time they will see the benefits of this trade.
- Feels Green can play the 3 and 4. He defends and passes well. Brings lenght to the team.
- Shaq has been excellent with the starters. Shaq is more suited as a starter.
- Shaq is a week away from playing.
- JO is getting ready.
- He will wait and see about the players that are going to be bought out. Then he will "pounce" on them. He has a few players in mind. He couldn't mention names right now.
- Would like to add another wing player.
- Would like to still shore up the front line.
- Would like to get another PG.
- Felt Semih was hurt this year and wasn't sure he could be counted on this year.
- Didn't feel Daniels would be able to play this season.

He's on now. Missed the beginning, but Danny:

Likes Green (Duh)

Expresses concern that they would not be able to sign Perk in offseason with new CBA. Perk wanted to test the market this time.

Says he was very close to Perk and they shed some tears today. Likes him going to OKC where he will have bright future. Both he and Doc agonized over the trade, but thought it best for the team. Says he think the team will see the benefits of the trade in time.

Second unit: Green can play 3/4, can shoot the 3, post, good passer, length, athletic, experienced but also is young.

It would have been tough to play all of Shaq, Perk, JO, etc. Says Shaq was excellent and better with the starters. Beat all the good teams with him. Says JO is coming along fantastically and Shaq will be back in week--- even before Perk would. Kristic is ready to go.

Shaq would have accepted his role, but better as a starter becasue of his age and takes a while to get loose.

Targeting free agents: Can't discuss, but ready to pounce. Johnson to 10 day-- skinny but long and talented and can play minutes in next few games. Roster spots are available and they will look for a shooter, wing (defense or offense), maybe shore up front line too. May fill all three spots or just two.

Other teams: Moves made with an eye to competition: Miami, Orlando, NY is strong now.

Semih: He's been hurt so not much help for the C's this year. Lokking for more experienced, healthier player.

Quis: Not sure of the prognosis, but looking like he would not play this year, so they wanted to pick up somebody and Green can be that guy. If Quis was healthy they still might have made a move with all the other injuries.

Likes Melo and Williams trades. Denver did well and NY got a special player. Utah was in same boat as Denver and needed to do something so as not to lose a player with nothing in return.

Rondo max contract? Yes, Rondo is more and more of a leader. Fun to play, great competitor. Top point guard.

The end.

[CelticSooner]

The idea that Green is a poor defender is nonsense. He is a product of a system that doesn't play any.

His feet are fine. He will flourish in Boston's defensive system.

That's a possibility, but Ibaka is not a poor defender, Sefolosha is not a poor defender,Westbrook is not a poor defender..and they're all in the same system.

Saying they don't play defense in that system doesn't make a ton of sense.

Totally disagree. There isn't a good on-ball defender on that team, and Scott Brooks doesn't teach it. At all. Out here, they're our local TV team and they simply are not a good defensive basketball team. OKC is a below average defensive team.

Westbrook could play Celtic defense if a coach demanded it. Don't like either one of the other two as players, on either end.

Brooks is a defensive coach. The Thunder played pretty good defense last season. Whatever happened they aren't playing at the same level this year. Seems teams have figured them out and attacking more. Perk will only help against that.

[jdpapa3]

I am genuinely shocked that multiple fans think that Shaq's defense is as good as Perk's.  Truly flabbergasted.  I understand liking Shaq better on the offensive end, but on defense, the two simply aren't close.

In my mind it goes something like this:

The difference between Shaq's defense and Perk's D is the same as the difference between Shaq's O and Perk's O. When I checked a few weeks ago, the starting lineup with Shaq this season was performing better than it ever had with Perkins in terms of efficiency differential.

Agree with you about the rebounding discrepancy between Perk and Krstic. Perk is literally twice the rebounder of Krstic.