Would you have traded Rondo for Deron Williams?

[xmuscularghandix]

How soon some forget.

Whens the last time Deron Williams had a triple double in the playoffs, or a triple double at all for that matter.

Guess its going to take the 2011 playoffs for people to start appreciating Rondo. Since they forget every year what he does once the playoffs start.

Deron Williams career triple-doubles: 0
Rajon Rondo career triple-doubles: 12 many of which coming in the playoffs on the big stage when wins matter.

This thread is the definition of overrating a jumpshot/freethrow, Rondo is better at everything else.

A young Jason Kidd couldnt shoot either, but now hes a first ballot hall of famer and one of the top 5 best point guards of all time.

Giving up on Rondo for someone who just has a better jumpshot would be one of the biggest mistakes this franchise could ever make.

.

[mgent]

Absolutely, if you say no you're blind.  Straight up wouldn't work but if Utah wanted to do Williams for Rondo and JO or Marquis then the Celtics definitely would've made that trade.  Our team is good enough to win without Rondo and a halfway decent PG in his place, never mind if you add Deron Williams.

And who do you think is gonna command more attention in free agency, Pierce and Rondo or Pierce and Williams?

  I've heard people from other teams say that they'd love to play with Rondo.

How many guys have you really heard say that?  And how many of them do you think wouldn't want to play with Williams?  Bottom line is that Pierce and Williams is the better team.

OJ Mayo:

"If I had to choose one to play with, I think it would be (Boston's) Rajon Rondo, just because he gets guys the ball in the right spots," Mayo explained when asked to name the best in the league. "Any scorer or shooter or big man would love to play with a point guard like that."

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/11/08/signed-for-potential-mike-conley-confident-hell-grow-into-cont/

Billups and Tyson Chandler:

Chauncey recently complemented Rondo's play to A. Sherrod Blakely from CSNNE.com, “I like playing with Rondo,” Billups said. “He’s a winner. I love playing with winners; guys that know how to play the game. Guys that every possession know what it means.”

In the same report, Tyson Chandler had similar remarks.“He’s looking every single time,” Chandler said. “For the big man, sometimes you’re guessing, ‘Is he shooting? Should I attack the boards, or is he passing?’ So it’s good to know, he’s looking to pass first.”

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/438318-why-rajon-rondo-will-start-at-pg-in-turkeyand-why-its-no-surprise


Only guys I can think of off the top of my head, but is it really a stretch to think that guys wouldn't want to play with a pass first PG that you know will want to get you the ball every night?

Not at all, I never said Rondo isn't up there on everyone's list of "guys I want to play with" but is it a stretch to say that guys would rather play with a better player?  I mean getting the ball every time you're open is nice and everything but if I'm looking to sign with a team I just want the best chance of winning a ring.

PG's are like engines.  I think Rondo is a better engine than DWill.  I also think he's got better intangibles, meaning he effects the game in more ways, along the lines of what Billups was saying....

Yeah but if you've got a precision steering system like Ray, a clutch assembly like Paul, suspension system like KG (get it), and an exhaust? like Perk you can afford a SLIGHTLY worse engine.

[BballTim]

I'm sure Rondo could score all day if he wanted to, but that usually doesn't lead our team to victories. Celtic wins usually equate to sharing the ball and racking up a lot of assists while locking down the opponents.

  If Rondo scoring doesn't lead to victories, then what's the value in bringing in a scoring point guard?

I love Rondo to death, but the best move for a team, for a franchise is to go with the more complete player.

  Yeah, as long as you consider the pg that's worse at passing, rebounding, defense and probably dictating the pace of the game the "more complete player".

[mgent]

Absolutely, if you say no you're blind.  Straight up wouldn't work but if Utah wanted to do Williams for Rondo and JO or Marquis then the Celtics definitely would've made that trade.  Our team is good enough to win without Rondo and a halfway decent PG in his place, never mind if you add Deron Williams.

And who do you think is gonna command more attention in free agency, Pierce and Rondo or Pierce and Williams?

  I've heard people from other teams say that they'd love to play with Rondo.

How many guys have you really heard say that?  And how many of them do you think wouldn't want to play with Williams?  Bottom line is that Pierce and Williams is the better team.

OJ Mayo:

"If I had to choose one to play with, I think it would be (Boston's) Rajon Rondo, just because he gets guys the ball in the right spots," Mayo explained when asked to name the best in the league. "Any scorer or shooter or big man would love to play with a point guard like that."

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/11/08/signed-for-potential-mike-conley-confident-hell-grow-into-cont/

Billups and Tyson Chandler:

Chauncey recently complemented Rondo's play to A. Sherrod Blakely from CSNNE.com, “I like playing with Rondo,” Billups said. “He’s a winner. I love playing with winners; guys that know how to play the game. Guys that every possession know what it means.”

In the same report, Tyson Chandler had similar remarks.“He’s looking every single time,” Chandler said. “For the big man, sometimes you’re guessing, ‘Is he shooting? Should I attack the boards, or is he passing?’ So it’s good to know, he’s looking to pass first.”

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/438318-why-rajon-rondo-will-start-at-pg-in-turkeyand-why-its-no-surprise


Only guys I can think of off the top of my head, but is it really a stretch to think that guys wouldn't want to play with a pass first PG that you know will want to get you the ball every night?

Not at all, I never said Rondo isn't up there on everyone's list of "guys I want to play with" but is it a stretch to say that guys would rather play with a better player?  I mean getting the ball every time you're open is nice and everything but if I'm looking to sign with a team I just want the best chance of winning a ring.

  You're putting your ideas of what players would want over what they've said they'd want, aren't you?

I find it extremely hard to believe you've never heard a player say he chose a team because it was their best chance of winning especially when we've had several of them in recent years.

[BballTim]

I find it extremely hard to believe you've never heard a player say he chose a team because it was their best chance of winning especially when we've had several of them in recent years.

  You've claimed that teams have a better chance of winning with Deron, but you haven't really done anything to prove it.

[LB3533]

I'm sure Rondo could score all day if he wanted to, but that usually doesn't lead our team to victories. Celtic wins usually equate to sharing the ball and racking up a lot of assists while locking down the opponents.

  If Rondo scoring doesn't lead to victories, then what's the value in bringing in a scoring point guard?

I love Rondo to death, but the best move for a team, for a franchise is to go with the more complete player.

  Yeah, as long as you consider the pg that's worse at passing, rebounding, defense and probably dictating the pace of the game the "more complete player".

Opponents want Rondo to score so that other Celtics are kept shut down.

If you bring in D-Will, he's going to score against defenses trying to stop him, thus opening things up for every other Celtic.

Just by adding D-Will it will generate even more ball movement from all 5 players....not just from one main cog in Rondo.

Rondo is a pretty complete player, but Deron is more so of the total package.

[BballTim]

I'm sure Rondo could score all day if he wanted to, but that usually doesn't lead our team to victories. Celtic wins usually equate to sharing the ball and racking up a lot of assists while locking down the opponents.

  If Rondo scoring doesn't lead to victories, then what's the value in bringing in a scoring point guard?

I love Rondo to death, but the best move for a team, for a franchise is to go with the more complete player.

  Yeah, as long as you consider the pg that's worse at passing, rebounding, defense and probably dictating the pace of the game the "more complete player".

Opponents want Rondo to score so that other Celtics are kept shut down.

If you bring in D-Will, he's going to score against defenses trying to stop him, thus opening things up for every other Celtic.

Just by adding D-Will it will generate even more ball movement from all 5 players....not just from one main cog in Rondo.

Rondo is a pretty complete player, but Deron is more so of the total package.

  Rondo can dominate games without taking a shot, something Deron can't do. If you have some good scorers on your team Rondo will contribute in a lot of other ways. Rajon can be the best player in a game where the big three do the bulk of the scoring. If you don't have good scorers aside from the pg Williams might have more of an effect than Rondo but the team won't be a contender.

[soap07]

I'm sure Rondo could score all day if he wanted to, but that usually doesn't lead our team to victories. Celtic wins usually equate to sharing the ball and racking up a lot of assists while locking down the opponents.

  If Rondo scoring doesn't lead to victories, then what's the value in bringing in a scoring point guard?

I love Rondo to death, but the best move for a team, for a franchise is to go with the more complete player.

  Yeah, as long as you consider the pg that's worse at passing, rebounding, defense and probably dictating the pace of the game the "more complete player".

Opponents want Rondo to score so that other Celtics are kept shut down.

If you bring in D-Will, he's going to score against defenses trying to stop him, thus opening things up for every other Celtic.

Just by adding D-Will it will generate even more ball movement from all 5 players....not just from one main cog in Rondo.

Rondo is a pretty complete player, but Deron is more so of the total package.

  Rondo can dominate games without taking a shot, something Deron can't do. If you have some good scorers on your team Rondo will contribute in a lot of other ways. Rajon can be the best player in a game where the big three do the bulk of the scoring. If you don't have good scorers aside from the pg Williams might have more of an effect than Rondo but the team won't be a contender.

Wait, why can't Deron dominate games without taking a shot again? And why would he want to?

  Yeah, as long as you consider the pg that's worse at passing, rebounding, defense and probably dictating the pace of the game the "more complete player".

Again, I keep seeing this - when did Rondo become a better defensive player than Deron? And will you quantify how Rondo is better at "dictating the pace?"

This year, the Jazz and Celtics are tied in offensive efficiency. And Rondo's the one quarterbacking an offense with three other All-Stars.

Additionally, there is very little drop off between Deron and Rondo's passing ability. Williams is one of the best passers in the league...and he more than makes up for that minor deficiency  with his lopsided scoring and shooting ability over Rondo.

[Megatron]

This thread makes me sad. I realize that there are plenty of C's fans that are only a fan of the franchise and not fans of the players.

Why Rondo is getting so much disrespect and being thrown under the bus in these fantasy trades is beyond me.

Im a bigger fan of the players playing for the Celtics then I am a fan of the Celtic franchise. Thats just me though. I wouldnt want to see Rondo traded for some guy that is only a better shooter but worse then Rondo at everything else.

How many playoff triple doubles does Rondo have to have in the playoffs for some of you guys to respect him and support him.

Before Derrick Rose was the player he is now, nearly 100% of Bulls fans had hope and supported him and wouldnt trade him for anyone else.

Seems like some C's fans arent quite as passionate about their players as other franchises.

[greenpride32]

  Rondo can dominate games without taking a shot, something Deron can't do. If you have some good scorers on your team Rondo will contribute in a lot of other ways. Rajon can be the best player in a game where the big three do the bulk of the scoring. If you don't have good scorers aside from the pg Williams might have more of an effect than Rondo but the team won't be a contender.

Rondo can only "dominate" games because he is on the floor with 3 or 4 HOF players.  If Rondo played for a bad team he would not have made any all-star games.  He's very talented and skilled in certain areas, but as an individual player he does not stack up to CP3, Deron, or D-Rose.

I'll give Rondo some credit, but Ray Ray, Diesel, The Truth, and The Big Ticket are all very accomplished players who got  it with and without Rondo.  So you can argue they don't need Rondo.  But we have yet to see how Rondo fares when his team is not stacked.

[BballTim]

I'm sure Rondo could score all day if he wanted to, but that usually doesn't lead our team to victories. Celtic wins usually equate to sharing the ball and racking up a lot of assists while locking down the opponents.

  If Rondo scoring doesn't lead to victories, then what's the value in bringing in a scoring point guard?

I love Rondo to death, but the best move for a team, for a franchise is to go with the more complete player.

  Yeah, as long as you consider the pg that's worse at passing, rebounding, defense and probably dictating the pace of the game the "more complete player".

Opponents want Rondo to score so that other Celtics are kept shut down.

If you bring in D-Will, he's going to score against defenses trying to stop him, thus opening things up for every other Celtic.

Just by adding D-Will it will generate even more ball movement from all 5 players....not just from one main cog in Rondo.

Rondo is a pretty complete player, but Deron is more so of the total package.

  Rondo can dominate games without taking a shot, something Deron can't do. If you have some good scorers on your team Rondo will contribute in a lot of other ways. Rajon can be the best player in a game where the big three do the bulk of the scoring. If you don't have good scorers aside from the pg Williams might have more of an effect than Rondo but the team won't be a contender.

Wait, why can't Deron dominate games without taking a shot again? And why would he want to?

  Yeah, as long as you consider the pg that's worse at passing, rebounding, defense and probably dictating the pace of the game the "more complete player".

Again, I keep seeing this - when did Rondo become a better defensive player than Deron?

  Start with this:

Rondo was 1st team all defense last year, 2nd team the year before. Last year he finished 4th in DPOY voting, higher than any other guard in the league. Pretty sure coaches vote on some of those. nba.com does GM surveys at the beginning of the year. Rondo finished 1st in best on the ball defender and best passing lane defender, basically getting twice the votes as anyone else in either category. He also finished 3rd in best perimeter defender. The year before he finished tied for 1st in on the ball defender and 4th in perimeter defender. If you compare them defensively on basketballreference Rondo kills Deron. His career defensive rating is much lower and he's got close to twice the total defensive win shares from playing a little over 2/3 the minutes Deron has.

  When did Rondo become a better defender than Deron? When he entered the league. You might think they're equal defenders, nba coaches and executives seem to take a very different view of the subject.

[ejk3489]

Again, I keep seeing this - when did Rondo become a better defensive player than Deron? And will you quantify how Rondo is better at "dictating the pace?"

When was he not a better defender than Deron? He has a better defensive rating and twice as many defensive win shares.

Also according to the stats on basketball reference, DWill was one of the worst defensive players on the Jazz (gave up 111 pts per 100 possesions) only Raja Bell was worse.

[KobeShesNotConsenting!]

I'm sure Rondo could score all day if he wanted to, but that usually doesn't lead our team to victories. Celtic wins usually equate to sharing the ball and racking up a lot of assists while locking down the opponents.

  If Rondo scoring doesn't lead to victories, then what's the value in bringing in a scoring point guard?

I love Rondo to death, but the best move for a team, for a franchise is to go with the more complete player.

  Yeah, as long as you consider the pg that's worse at passing, rebounding, defense and probably dictating the pace of the game the "more complete player".

Opponents want Rondo to score so that other Celtics are kept shut down.

If you bring in D-Will, he's going to score against defenses trying to stop him, thus opening things up for every other Celtic.

Just by adding D-Will it will generate even more ball movement from all 5 players....not just from one main cog in Rondo.

Rondo is a pretty complete player, but Deron is more so of the total package.

  Rondo can dominate games without taking a shot, something Deron can't do. If you have some good scorers on your team Rondo will contribute in a lot of other ways. Rajon can be the best player in a game where the big three do the bulk of the scoring. If you don't have good scorers aside from the pg Williams might have more of an effect than Rondo but the team won't be a contender.

Wait, why can't Deron dominate games without taking a shot again? And why would he want to?

  Yeah, as long as you consider the pg that's worse at passing, rebounding, defense and probably dictating the pace of the game the "more complete player".

Again, I keep seeing this - when did Rondo become a better defensive player than Deron?

  Start with this:

Rondo was 1st team all defense last year, 2nd team the year before. Last year he finished 4th in DPOY voting, higher than any other guard in the league. Pretty sure coaches vote on some of those. nba.com does GM surveys at the beginning of the year. Rondo finished 1st in best on the ball defender and best passing lane defender, basically getting twice the votes as anyone else in either category. He also finished 3rd in best perimeter defender. The year before he finished tied for 1st in on the ball defender and 4th in perimeter defender. If you compare them defensively on basketballreference Rondo kills Deron. His career defensive rating is much lower and he's got close to twice the total defensive win shares from playing a little over 2/3 the minutes Deron has.

  When did Rondo become a better defender than Deron? When he entered the league. You might think they're equal defenders, nba coaches and executives seem to take a very different view of the subject.

You took the words right outta my mouth. I love when people think they know more about the game than the professionals running the league. Like ''oh, rondo's all nba defensive first team, while Deron's not even on the list, but Deron is almost as good a defender as rondo". Its so annoying when people just falsify things in order to make their argument seem more credible. Saying that Rondo does everything else besides shooting just a little better than Deron is ridiculous. Rondo's a better passer, better rebounder, and a MUCH better defender.

[mgent]

I find it extremely hard to believe you've never heard a player say he chose a team because it was their best chance of winning especially when we've had several of them in recent years.

  You've claimed that teams have a better chance of winning with Deron, but you haven't really done anything to prove it.

Oh so you're arguing that Rondo is a better player than Williams?  Didn't think anybody thought that.

[Kane3387]

Ask yourselves this:

With one possession to win the game, who do you want to have the ball?

Rondo or Williams?

That's what have you to decide because they are both incredible during the first 45 minutes.

Williams hasn't played with the quality talent and character that Rondo has on this team. It's unfair to really judge.

That being said, you can't trade Rondo at this point in the season for Williams. There are too many unknowns in what could happen and for this year the bad likely outweighs the good. The big 3 are comfortable with Rondo and more importantly he is comfortable with them.

We got too good a chance to win it all this year to make a major move. Now maybe that is different next year bc Rondo and his long term + cheap contract would be incredibly attractive to NJ if D Will decides to walk after next year.

Williams likely attracts more star free agents then Rondo like Howard because he is buddies with them all.