Desperation time in Miami? Mike Miller being shopped.

[Cman]

No.  Why would Miami be desperate?  They're sitting atop the East, and are one of the best teams in the NBA.

Their 12-13 record vs current .500+ teams, 0-3 vs the Celtics, and the lone Christmas day win vs the league's top 6, should make them concerned, even if you don't want to go as far as 'desperate"

I haven't been following them recently, but I know they got off to a slow start and have come roaring back.  If you break the 25 teams that are .500+ into first half of the season versus second half, how does it look?  My guess is that their record vs .500+ teams has improved.

Also, yes, they are 0-3 against the Cs.  But did the Cs most recent 3pt win versus Miami leave you thinking that Miami was that far behind, regardless of record?

Miami is a team that should go far in the playoffs, and is not a team to be taken lightly.

[the_Bird]

They are trading a guy that is going to get the leftover minutes in the playoffs behind Wade and Lebron.  (so we are talking about 15 minutes or less) And they have another player capable of those minutes.  

Which is why I never understood why Miami bothered with Miller at all, given their frontcourt weaknesses even when Haslem was healthy.

Mike

Because Miller had been an excellent all around player. 

But they had just signed the two best wing players in the league and had real question marks at center and PG.  Why spend what little cap room they had left on a back-up wing who won't play major minutes unless Miami plays Wade or LeBron out of their natural positions?

Mike

Who were they going to sign?


Shaq?  Too many burned bridges between him and Lebron/Wade

JO?  They renounced him.  That makes it much harder to get him to resign.

Who's left?  They didn't have the MLE correct?  They had cap space.  


They got Hasslem to sign for an under market contract to fit him in.  Same with Miller.  

They used the MLE on Miller didn't they?

Teams with cap space don't have the MLE.  They squeezed him in with the little cap space they had left.  Didn't the big 3 take a tiny bit less than the max so they'd have room to sign M.Miller?

I guess it doesn't really matter either way but yeah this was a terrible signing from the very start

If you're going to make that statement, tell me who they should have signed instead (who realistically could have been available).  The centers who were out there were mostly mediocre, and signing Brad Miller or JO or even Haywood wouldn't have helped them much at all.

Remember, too, the idea was (maybe still is) that they'd run a Miller/Wade/LeBron crunch-time lineup, as all three guys can handle the ball and there ain't a one of them you can help off of.  Miller's not just a shooter, he's spend a fair amount of his career as a quasi-PG.

And as we are seeing ourselves, you NEED to have a third, good wing player.  Wade and LeBron aren't playing 48 minutes a game.  No one thought the Jones would do much of anything.  

[bdm860]

One thing that would be great about Mike Miller being traded would be how it could burn bridges with other potential free agents.

With the Heat so maxed out in salary, their only chance to really sign some quality guys over the next several years is to have players take bargain deals to sign.

If you were a free agent (or his agent), would you consider taking less from the Heat, knowing the last player that took less now has 4 years left on his contract and is playing for a team that is years away from making the playoffs?

Nobody wants to sign for less to play on a bad team.  If this trade were to happen, this would help discourage any decent free agents from signing with the Heat for a discount.

[BballTim]

They are trading a guy that is going to get the leftover minutes in the playoffs behind Wade and Lebron.  (so we are talking about 15 minutes or less) And they have another player capable of those minutes.  

Which is why I never understood why Miami bothered with Miller at all, given their frontcourt weaknesses even when Haslem was healthy.

Mike

  Because they clearly had a need for someone who could spread the floor. They envisioned Miller draining open threes all day while teams collapsed into the paint to stop LBJ/Wade.

You sign guys like Eddie House and James Jones to spread the floor.  You don't give a guy a 5 year, 30 million dollar deal to spread the floor, especially when the best center on your roster is Joel Freakin' Anthony.

Mike

  Trying to get a quality starting center for the MLE is a pretty slim bet.

[MBunge]

They are trading a guy that is going to get the leftover minutes in the playoffs behind Wade and Lebron.  (so we are talking about 15 minutes or less) And they have another player capable of those minutes.  

Which is why I never understood why Miami bothered with Miller at all, given their frontcourt weaknesses even when Haslem was healthy.

Mike

  Because they clearly had a need for someone who could spread the floor. They envisioned Miller draining open threes all day while teams collapsed into the paint to stop LBJ/Wade.

You sign guys like Eddie House and James Jones to spread the floor.  You don't give a guy a 5 year, 30 million dollar deal to spread the floor, especially when the best center on your roster is Joel Freakin' Anthony.

Mike

Are you serious? Spreading the floor is just one of Miller's many abilities. Passing, rebounding, good scorer...
 

None of which matters..BECAUSE MIAMI ALREADY HAD TWO PLAYER MUCH, MUCH BETTER PEOPLE PLAYING AT MILLER'S POSITION.  Miami signing Miller would have been like Boston signing Raymond Felton.  Yeah, he would have been an awesome back-up to Rondo, but would that have made the team better than signing Shaq?

Mike

[soap07]

They are trading a guy that is going to get the leftover minutes in the playoffs behind Wade and Lebron.  (so we are talking about 15 minutes or less) And they have another player capable of those minutes.  

Which is why I never understood why Miami bothered with Miller at all, given their frontcourt weaknesses even when Haslem was healthy.

Mike

  Because they clearly had a need for someone who could spread the floor. They envisioned Miller draining open threes all day while teams collapsed into the paint to stop LBJ/Wade.

You sign guys like Eddie House and James Jones to spread the floor.  You don't give a guy a 5 year, 30 million dollar deal to spread the floor, especially when the best center on your roster is Joel Freakin' Anthony.

Mike

Are you serious? Spreading the floor is just one of Miller's many abilities. Passing, rebounding, good scorer...
 

None of which matters..BECAUSE MIAMI ALREADY HAD TWO PLAYER MUCH, MUCH BETTER PEOPLE PLAYING AT MILLER'S POSITION.  Miami signing Miller would have been like Boston signing Raymond Felton.  Yeah, he would have been an awesome back-up to Rondo, but would that have made the team better than signing Shaq?

Mike

If Raymond Felton agreed to sign as a back-up and understood he was getting 15-20 minutes a night max, yes, it would be a good signing - and this is assuming that Nate wasn't getting signed. And it wouldn't have precluded the Celtics from getting Shaq.

Additionally, I don't see your point about LeBron/Wade playing the same position because a. LeBron/Wade aren't going to be out there 48 minutes a night. Miller can play 3 positions on the floor. There is/were minutes for him. If LeBron/Wade are on the floor, how does that affect Miller's ability to get them easier shots and rebound? It's not like Miller requires starter minutes.

[MBunge]

If you're going to make that statement, tell me who they should have signed instead (who realistically could have been available).  

Toronto signed Amir Johnson for only a bit more than Miller got.  He's now averaging 10 points and 6.9 rebounds in 26 minutes a game.

Louis Amundson signed a 2 year, 4.6 million dollar deal with Golden State.  He's averaging 3.6 points and 4.1 rebounds in just under 15 minutes a game.

Either one would be better than Big Z, who can shoot jumpers but is next to useless defensively, or Anthony and Dampier, who can play defense but are completely useless on offense.

Mike

[MBunge]

Additionally, I don't see your point about LeBron/Wade playing the same position because a. LeBron/Wade aren't going to be out there 48 minutes a night. Miller can play 3 positions on the floor. There is/were minutes for him. If LeBron/Wade are on the floor, how does that affect Miller's ability to get them easier shots and rebound? It's not like Miller requires starter minutes.

It was one thing to make that argument in the preseason, but we've actually been able to watch LeBron, Wade and Miller play together.

Mike

[bruinsandceltics]

They are trading a guy that is going to get the leftover minutes in the playoffs behind Wade and Lebron.  (so we are talking about 15 minutes or less) And they have another player capable of those minutes.  

Which is why I never understood why Miami bothered with Miller at all, given their frontcourt weaknesses even when Haslem was healthy.

Mike

  Because they clearly had a need for someone who could spread the floor. They envisioned Miller draining open threes all day while teams collapsed into the paint to stop LBJ/Wade.

You sign guys like Eddie House and James Jones to spread the floor.  You don't give a guy a 5 year, 30 million dollar deal to spread the floor, especially when the best center on your roster is Joel Freakin' Anthony.

Mike

  Trying to get a quality starting center for the MLE is a pretty slim bet.

Hell, trying to get a quality backup center for the MLE is a pretty slim bet. Just look at the Celtics for the past two years (although Sheed did come on in the playoffs).

[BballTim]

They are trading a guy that is going to get the leftover minutes in the playoffs behind Wade and Lebron.  (so we are talking about 15 minutes or less) And they have another player capable of those minutes.  

Which is why I never understood why Miami bothered with Miller at all, given their frontcourt weaknesses even when Haslem was healthy.

Mike

  Because they clearly had a need for someone who could spread the floor. They envisioned Miller draining open threes all day while teams collapsed into the paint to stop LBJ/Wade.

You sign guys like Eddie House and James Jones to spread the floor.  You don't give a guy a 5 year, 30 million dollar deal to spread the floor, especially when the best center on your roster is Joel Freakin' Anthony.

Mike

Are you serious? Spreading the floor is just one of Miller's many abilities. Passing, rebounding, good scorer...
 

None of which matters..BECAUSE MIAMI ALREADY HAD TWO PLAYER MUCH, MUCH BETTER PEOPLE PLAYING AT MILLER'S POSITION.  Miami signing Miller would have been like Boston signing Raymond Felton.  Yeah, he would have been an awesome back-up to Rondo, but would that have made the team better than signing Shaq?

Mike

  Miami has no use for a typical pg as LBJ and Wade handle the ball most of the time. Miami can play all three of LeBron, Wade and Miller no problem. Felton and Rondo wouldn't work. It's not the same thing at all.

[BballTim]

Additionally, I don't see your point about LeBron/Wade playing the same position because a. LeBron/Wade aren't going to be out there 48 minutes a night. Miller can play 3 positions on the floor. There is/were minutes for him. If LeBron/Wade are on the floor, how does that affect Miller's ability to get them easier shots and rebound? It's not like Miller requires starter minutes.

It was one thing to make that argument in the preseason, but we've actually been able to watch LeBron, Wade and Miller play together.

Mike

  Well if we've been able to watch LeBron, Wade and Miller play together then that kind of undercuts your point about them playing the same positions.

[BballTim]

If you're going to make that statement, tell me who they should have signed instead (who realistically could have been available).  

Toronto signed Amir Johnson for only a bit more than Miller got.  He's now averaging 10 points and 6.9 rebounds in 26 minutes a game.

Louis Amundson signed a 2 year, 4.6 million dollar deal with Golden State.  He's averaging 3.6 points and 4.1 rebounds in just under 15 minutes a game.

Either one would be better than Big Z, who can shoot jumpers but is next to useless defensively, or Anthony and Dampier, who can play defense but are completely useless on offense.

Mike

  That's great hindsight. Start with the most sought after FA centers, not the few out of the many signings that have worked out. And are either of your guys offensive threats from the outside like Z?

[MBunge]

They are trading a guy that is going to get the leftover minutes in the playoffs behind Wade and Lebron.  (so we are talking about 15 minutes or less) And they have another player capable of those minutes.  

Which is why I never understood why Miami bothered with Miller at all, given their frontcourt weaknesses even when Haslem was healthy.

Mike

  Because they clearly had a need for someone who could spread the floor. They envisioned Miller draining open threes all day while teams collapsed into the paint to stop LBJ/Wade.

You sign guys like Eddie House and James Jones to spread the floor.  You don't give a guy a 5 year, 30 million dollar deal to spread the floor, especially when the best center on your roster is Joel Freakin' Anthony.

Mike

Are you serious? Spreading the floor is just one of Miller's many abilities. Passing, rebounding, good scorer...
 

None of which matters..BECAUSE MIAMI ALREADY HAD TWO PLAYER MUCH, MUCH BETTER PEOPLE PLAYING AT MILLER'S POSITION.  Miami signing Miller would have been like Boston signing Raymond Felton.  Yeah, he would have been an awesome back-up to Rondo, but would that have made the team better than signing Shaq?

Mike

  Miami has no use for a typical pg as LBJ and Wade handle the ball most of the time. Miami can play all three of LeBron, Wade and Miller no problem. Felton and Rondo wouldn't work. It's not the same thing at all.

Felton is far better than either Arroyo or Chalmers.  There's no argument.  If you're going to tell me than Wade and LeBron can only play with sub-mediocre point guards, I don't know if I can argue with that.

Mike

[MBunge]

Additionally, I don't see your point about LeBron/Wade playing the same position because a. LeBron/Wade aren't going to be out there 48 minutes a night. Miller can play 3 positions on the floor. There is/were minutes for him. If LeBron/Wade are on the floor, how does that affect Miller's ability to get them easier shots and rebound? It's not like Miller requires starter minutes.

It was one thing to make that argument in the preseason, but we've actually been able to watch LeBron, Wade and Miller play together.

Mike

  Well if we've been able to watch LeBron, Wade and Miller play together then that kind of undercuts your point about them playing the same positions.

And Miller being shopped kind of supports every single point I and others have ever made on this subject.

Mike

[MBunge]

If you're going to make that statement, tell me who they should have signed instead (who realistically could have been available).  

Toronto signed Amir Johnson for only a bit more than Miller got.  He's now averaging 10 points and 6.9 rebounds in 26 minutes a game.

Louis Amundson signed a 2 year, 4.6 million dollar deal with Golden State.  He's averaging 3.6 points and 4.1 rebounds in just under 15 minutes a game.

Either one would be better than Big Z, who can shoot jumpers but is next to useless defensively, or Anthony and Dampier, who can play defense but are completely useless on offense.

Mike

  That's great hindsight. Start with the most sought after FA centers, not the few out of the many signings that have worked out. And are either of your guys offensive threats from the outside like Z?

I said Miami needed to focus on bigs instead of Miller from the very beginning.  Haslem going down certainly made things worse, but do you think Miami would really be that much better off with Haslem playing most of the game at the 5, which is clearly what the plan was?

Mike