Report: Cavs want Semih for Parker

[the_Bird]

You can't - CAN'T - go into the playoffs with Perk as your only reliably-healthy center.  We just can't count on Shaq being available, and obviously not JO.  There's a [dang] good chance that both of those guys will still be banged up come April/May, and counting on BBD to be the backup 5 again is just asking for trouble.

If Parker was younger and likely to be more than a three-month rental, you think about it.

Ultimately, though, we need Semih as our backup 5 more than we need Anthony Parker as our backup 3.

I wonder if Indiana might be willing to let go of Dahntay Jones for just Quis' expiring contract.  Gotta figure they'd like to be out of Jones' deal; even if Quis never suits up for them again, they'll save a lot of money.  Bird always like Quis anyway, they just didn't pick up his option that year because he wasn't worth $7M per.  I'd rather explore a deal like that and hold onto one of our only semi-healthy big men.  

[snively]

What is this fascination with Semih Erden? He's a mediocre 3rd-string center in the NBA.  He was a mediocre 2nd-string center on the Turkish national team.  He's 24.  He was the 60th pick in the draft.

Anthony Parker is a legitimate rotation wing player.  Excellent shooter, solid passer and ballhandler, smart, disciplined, decent defensively.

And Rasual Butler?  Why so much love?  One trick pony who left his one trick (3-point shot) in New Orleans.  Can't get off the bench for a crappy Clippers team.

Erden is a legit potential who has already proven he can contribute as a rookie, not knowing the system and playing with a shoulder that needs surgery. He is not your regular 3rd string center and he is way better than Parker who is very close to washed up and definitely wouldn't even be mentioned with the C's had Marquis not been injured.

How is Parker washed up?  Last year he started 81 games for a team that one 61.  His per minute number are the same or better this year with the exception of shooting efficiency, which is the result of him having to take more, unassisted mid-range shots (understandable given the dearth of offensive options on that decimated Cavs team).

He still makes very good decisions with the ball (2.7 assists per turnover, 4 assists per 40 minutes), shoots a sparkling 40% from 3 and plays smart defense.

No he's not the player he was with Toronto, but he's still very serviceable as a back-up wing and much better than Rasual Butler or Semih Erden.

As for Erden, what kind of potential are you seeing?  He's an NBA rookie yes, but he's a 24 year old with plenty of professional experience.  Other than a little bit better defensive positioning, I think we're seeing him mostly at his peak right now.  I watched him throughout the World Championships against Team USA and other Euro big men and I've seen nothing to suggest that he can become more than what he is now: a limited offensive big man who can move his feet on defense but can't rebound at a high level.  Jarron Collins level potential?

[the_Bird]

I don't think it's a matter of think Semih has this great unleashed potential, but who's our backup center for the rest of this season if you trade him?  You counting on Shaq?  JO?  Going to bring back 'Sheed (and cut/buy out someone for a roster spot)?

Semih has shown himself to be semih-competent in a limited role.  That's what we need, someone besides BBD that can be counted on to not screw up too badly at the 5 when Perk's on the bench. 

[greenpride32]

Semih will get 0 playoff minutes which means he's moveable.  AP would be in the rotation for both regular season and playoffs so this trade makes sense to me.
Let's face it, with the game on the line in the playoffs, Doc will trust Perk, Shaq, JO out there, and BBD if needed.  But Semih... no.

[clover]

You can't - CAN'T - go into the playoffs with Perk as your only reliably-healthy center.  We just can't count on Shaq being available, and obviously not JO.  There's a [dang] good chance that both of those guys will still be banged up come April/May, and counting on BBD to be the backup 5 again is just asking for trouble.

If Parker was younger and likely to be more than a three-month rental, you think about it.

Ultimately, though, we need Semih as our backup 5 more than we need Anthony Parker as our backup 3.

I wonder if Indiana might be willing to let go of Dahntay Jones for just Quis' expiring contract.  Gotta figure they'd like to be out of Jones' deal; even if Quis never suits up for them again, they'll save a lot of money.  Bird always like Quis anyway, they just didn't pick up his option that year because he wasn't worth $7M per.  I'd rather explore a deal like that and hold onto one of our only semi-healthy big men.  

I like that idea much better. I really think Dahntay could fit with what they need.

[hpantazo]

Semih will get 0 playoff minutes which means he's moveable.  AP would be in the rotation for both regular season and playoffs so this trade makes sense to me.
Let's face it, with the game on the line in the playoffs, Doc will trust Perk, Shaq, JO out there, and BBD if needed.  But Semih... no.

I disagree. Perk is our only healthy center at the moment. It's highly unlikely that Shaq gets through the playoffs without missing some games, and I don't expect JO to ever step foot on the court as a celtic again. That means Erden sure as hell would get serious minutes in the playoffs wether we like it or not. Does he close out games? No way, but neither does Perkins or Shaq. Doc always closes out games with Davis, but that is irrelevant. We need a backup center.

As for people who say he has bad hands, the only period that it looked that way was when he was playing with a thumb and shoulder injury. Instead of getting credit for sucking it up and playing through it, even as a rookie, he gets criticized as having bad hands and poor upper body strength, which is not true.

[Drucci]

What is this fascination with Semih Erden? He's a mediocre 3rd-string center in the NBA.  He was a mediocre 2nd-string center on the Turkish national team.  He's 24.  He was the 60th pick in the draft.

Anthony Parker is a legitimate rotation wing player.  Excellent shooter, solid passer and ballhandler, smart, disciplined, decent defensively.

And Rasual Butler?  Why so much love?  One trick pony who left his one trick (3-point shot) in New Orleans.  Can't get off the bench for a crappy Clippers team.

Erden is a legit potential who has already proven he can contribute as a rookie, not knowing the system and playing with a shoulder that needs surgery. He is not your regular 3rd string center and he is way better than Parker who is very close to washed up and definitely wouldn't even be mentioned with the C's had Marquis not been injured.

How is Parker washed up?  Last year he started 81 games for a team that one 61.  His per minute number are the same or better this year with the exception of shooting efficiency, which is the result of him having to take more, unassisted mid-range shots (understandable given the dearth of offensive options on that decimated Cavs team).

He still makes very good decisions with the ball (2.7 assists per turnover, 4 assists per 40 minutes), shoots a sparkling 40% from 3 and plays smart defense.

No he's not the player he was with Toronto, but he's still very serviceable as a back-up wing and much better than Rasual Butler or Semih Erden.

As for Erden, what kind of potential are you seeing?  He's an NBA rookie yes, but he's a 24 year old with plenty of professional experience.  Other than a little bit better defensive positioning, I think we're seeing him mostly at his peak right now.  I watched him throughout the World Championships against Team USA and other Euro big men and I've seen nothing to suggest that he can become more than what he is now: a limited offensive big man who can move his feet on defense but can't rebound at a high level.  Jarron Collins level potential?

Honestly I don't really care about Parker's stats. What I've seen from him in the playoffs against us really didn't impress me, he didn't hit his wide open shots (and he got plenty of them), got burned by Ray on D... Sure he is solid during the season but I think all the talk about his experience and the fact he is a proven vet is overblown. Simply put I don't think you can rely on him in the playoffs, even for limited minutes.

As for Erden I have not seen tremendous potential but centers are hard to find. Still, he found playing time as a rookie under Doc's coaching (which is no easy feat) and while playing (and it's still the case) injured. I'm not saying he is a legit starting center but to me he is at least a Leon Powe/Big Baby kind of guy if we keep him and make him mature. I'm not counting on him for the playoffs this year but it would be a mistake to deal him for Anthony Parker in my opinion. For a legit efficient/proven wing who makes a difference in the playoffs, I would trade Semih in a heartbeat. For Parker... no way.

[Birdbrain]

Semih will get 0 playoff minutes which means he's moveable.  AP would be in the rotation for both regular season and playoffs so this trade makes sense to me.
Let's face it, with the game on the line in the playoffs, Doc will trust Perk, Shaq, JO out there, and BBD if needed.  But Semih... no.

Davis plays better defense at the 5 then Semi anyway so I would probably be ok with the trade.  Parker is what he is.  He can make the open 3 and play a little team defense. 

[Jon]

Two questions to consider:

1) What are our other options?  If we can get some other comparable wing without giving up Semih, we do't do this.  

2) How good is Semih?  Sure he's had his flashes, but who wouldn't look good playing with the Big Four?  Thus, could Danny pick up a buy-out guy or some vet without a job and get the same production out of him?  If so, maybe Erden is not so important after all.

I also question just how bad Shaq's health is, and I mean that in a good way.  For the most part, the team has been pretty candid about the fact that most of his missed games wouldn't have happened in the playoffs.  

[Celtics4ever]

Semih has potentially 10 good years ahead of him.  Parker has maybe one or two.  He'd help now with our SF problems no doubt though.  I think Erden has more upside and room to grow whereas Parker is at the tail end of his career.

[snively]

What is this fascination with Semih Erden? He's a mediocre 3rd-string center in the NBA.  He was a mediocre 2nd-string center on the Turkish national team.  He's 24.  He was the 60th pick in the draft.

Anthony Parker is a legitimate rotation wing player.  Excellent shooter, solid passer and ballhandler, smart, disciplined, decent defensively.

And Rasual Butler?  Why so much love?  One trick pony who left his one trick (3-point shot) in New Orleans.  Can't get off the bench for a crappy Clippers team.

Erden is a legit potential who has already proven he can contribute as a rookie, not knowing the system and playing with a shoulder that needs surgery. He is not your regular 3rd string center and he is way better than Parker who is very close to washed up and definitely wouldn't even be mentioned with the C's had Marquis not been injured.

How is Parker washed up?  Last year he started 81 games for a team that one 61.  His per minute number are the same or better this year with the exception of shooting efficiency, which is the result of him having to take more, unassisted mid-range shots (understandable given the dearth of offensive options on that decimated Cavs team).

He still makes very good decisions with the ball (2.7 assists per turnover, 4 assists per 40 minutes), shoots a sparkling 40% from 3 and plays smart defense.

No he's not the player he was with Toronto, but he's still very serviceable as a back-up wing and much better than Rasual Butler or Semih Erden.

As for Erden, what kind of potential are you seeing?  He's an NBA rookie yes, but he's a 24 year old with plenty of professional experience.  Other than a little bit better defensive positioning, I think we're seeing him mostly at his peak right now.  I watched him throughout the World Championships against Team USA and other Euro big men and I've seen nothing to suggest that he can become more than what he is now: a limited offensive big man who can move his feet on defense but can't rebound at a high level.  Jarron Collins level potential?

Honestly I don't really care about Parker's stats. What I've seen from him in the playoffs against us really didn't impress me, he didn't hit his wide open shots (and he got plenty of them), got burned by Ray on D... Sure he is solid during the season but I think all the talk about his experience and the fact he is a proven vet is overblown. Simply put I don't think you can rely on him in the playoffs, even for limited minutes.

As for Erden I have not seen tremendous potential but centers are hard to find. Still, he found playing time as a rookie under Doc's coaching (which is no easy feat) and while playing (and it's still the case) injured. I'm not saying he is a legit starting center but to me he is at least a Leon Powe/Big Baby kind of guy if we keep him and make him mature. I'm not counting on him for the playoffs this year but it would be a mistake to deal him for Anthony Parker in my opinion. For a legit efficient/proven wing who makes a difference in the playoffs, I would trade Semih in a heartbeat. For Parker... no way.

Parker didn't hit his wide-open shots against us in the playoffs?  The guy shot 11-21 from deep for the series, and 50% from the field!  He nails wide-open shots as well as anyone in the game (including Ray Allen).

And IIRC Ray did most of his damage on Mo Williams, while Parker was shredded by Rondo. 

[Jon]

Semih has potentially 10 good years ahead of him.  Parker has maybe one or two.  He'd help now with our SF problems no doubt though.  I think Erden has more upside and room to grow whereas Parker is at the tail end of his career.

But to me, upside means nothing this year.  The question is, if we can't acquire a wing any other way, what's more important, a wing or Semih as an extra big.

I couldn't care less if Semih is a 12 and 8 player 3 years from now if we don't win #18 this year. 

[the_Bird]

Semih has potentially 10 good years ahead of him.  Parker has maybe one or two.  He'd help now with our SF problems no doubt though.  I think Erden has more upside and room to grow whereas Parker is at the tail end of his career.

But to me, upside means nothing this year.  The question is, if we can't acquire a wing any other way, what's more important, a wing or Semih as an extra big.

I couldn't care less if Semih is a 12 and 8 player 3 years from now if we don't win #18 this year. 

A. There are a lot of other options being discusses as wing-alternatives to Anthony Parker, guys that are likely to be bought out or to come cheaper.  Is a bought-out Jammiro Moon that much less of a player than Parker?

B. I don't think you can view Semih as an "extra" big, not with the injury concerns on the guys ahead of him.  I really wish that Shaq and JO were both healthy and Semih was redundant, but I don't see how realistically anyone can count on either of the Brothers O'Neil,  or feel comfortable only having BBD behind Perk.

[Jon]

Semih has potentially 10 good years ahead of him.  Parker has maybe one or two.  He'd help now with our SF problems no doubt though.  I think Erden has more upside and room to grow whereas Parker is at the tail end of his career.

But to me, upside means nothing this year.  The question is, if we can't acquire a wing any other way, what's more important, a wing or Semih as an extra big.

I couldn't care less if Semih is a 12 and 8 player 3 years from now if we don't win #18 this year. 

A. There are a lot of other options being discusses as wing-alternatives to Anthony Parker, guys that are likely to be bought out or to come cheaper.  Is a bought-out Jammiro Moon that much less of a player than Parker?

B. I don't think you can view Semih as an "extra" big, not with the injury concerns on the guys ahead of him.  I really wish that Shaq and JO were both healthy and Semih was redundant, but I don't see how realistically anyone can count on either of the Brothers O'Neil,  or feel comfortable only having BBD behind Perk.

True.  I'm not saying I like the Parker trade.  I'm simply asking the question, what's more important, Semih's depth at the 5 or the depth an extra 3 would provide? 

And while I agree that there other deals out there, I think it may end up being a pipe dream that a) someone awesome (like Rip) gets bought out or b) that some team wants some combination of Nate, JO, Bradley, or Harangody. 

Given that case, we may have to decide whether or not Semih's worth parting with. 

I'm not sure.  However, I would be more willing to part with him for someone like Battier, who, at 6-8, could play some 4 for us (thus allowing Baby to play more at the 5).  Parker really is more of a 2, so I'd be less willing to part with Erden. 

[SCBirdman]

No way, no how would I trade Erden for Parker. Erden will be in the league long after Parker is not.