Author Topic: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?  (Read 10696 times)

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Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2011, 09:15:50 PM »

Offline Megatron

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It's not like the Heat haven't had key players injured either (Miller, Haslem). For me, the bottom line is LeBron is clearly the better player in almost every aspect of the game, putting up better numbers on a better team.
Neither player is a starter - and the heatles are 1 loss better than the Bulls, missing starters for over 50 games, with a weaker (although not by much) SOS.

Bottom line for me is he won it 2 years in a row already - and doesn't deserve a third straight.

? What does this year have to do with prior years? The 2011 MVP is based on this year alone. And FWIW, Boozer has played the vast majority of this year, averaging 19/10 on 54% shooting and somehow, the team has been a better defensive team since Noah has been out. It's not that Rose isn't deserving - he's just an inferior player to LeBron on an inferior team.

Are the Bulls the inferior team? I mean really. Are the Heat THAT much better than the Bulls? I have serious doubts there, honestly. If the two do in fact meet up in the 2nd round of the playoffs and Noah & Boozer are fully healthy, my money's on Chicago. And that's even if they don't pull off a trade for JR Smith to upgrade their 2 spot.

Betting against a team that has both LeBron and Wade is not a smart idea.

Miami IS a better team. Chicago isnt going to go from a team that couldnt make it out of the first round to a title favorite just with the addition of Boozer, a guy who didnt even make the all star team this year.

Chicago is the future, but Miami has too many dominante wing players and Chicago have one.

Unless you think Bogans + Deng will have their way with LeBron+Wade.

A Chicago/Miami series will be a bloodshed, with Chicagos bigs unable to handle LeBron and Wades penetration, fouls will be called, and Chicagos lack of frontline depth will be exposed, as well as their lack of offense.




Lets just break the teams down if they were to face each other.

LeBron vs Deng. LeBrons a great defender, if LeBron can bother Pierce, Deng is REALLY going to have a tough time scoring.

Bogans vs Wade. No clue how Bogans is even in the NBA. This guy averages like 2 points a game, hes basically useless on the offensive end. Wade will dominate him on both ends.

Noah vs Big Z/Anthony. Big Z will draw Noah outside of the paint with his range, and will open it up for LeBron/Wade to penetrate.
Anthony is a better defender then people give him credit for. On the other end, Noah is not a great offensive player, he gets his points from hustle plays and put backs, he has no offensive game outside of that.

Boozer vs Bosh. Again, Boozer is bothered by big men with length, I expect Bosh to get the better of this match up on both ends.

Rose vs Chalmers. Rose will dominate not only because he can, but because he HAS to. Outside of Rose, the Bulls have no scorers that will have a great series, all of their players are either limited offensively (Noah/Bogans), or can be easily shut down by Miami defense (LeBron on Deng) or bothered by Miami length (Bosh on Boozer)

Chicago Bench vs Heat Bench Miami has the worst bench in the league, Chicago's bench has to outplay the Miami bench EVERY GAME if they want want a chance to win because the Chicago starters dont have enough offensive fire power outside of Rose to keep up.

Bottom line is that outside of Rose and to a lesser extendent Boozer, they have ZERO scoring ability, they are going to have an extremely hard time putting points on the board and it will be up to Rose to single handedly be the best player on the COURT for them to win this series, the bulls just dont have enough offensive options.

The series is going to come down to how Boozer can deal with Bosh's length on the defensive end, and how much production the Bulls are going to get out of their bench, in the meantime dealing with LeBron and Wade dominating their wing players and riddling their big men with fouls.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 09:32:10 PM by Megatron »

Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2011, 10:34:00 PM »

Online RJ87

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It's not like the Heat haven't had key players injured either (Miller, Haslem). For me, the bottom line is LeBron is clearly the better player in almost every aspect of the game, putting up better numbers on a better team.
Neither player is a starter - and the heatles are 1 loss better than the Bulls, missing starters for over 50 games, with a weaker (although not by much) SOS.

Bottom line for me is he won it 2 years in a row already - and doesn't deserve a third straight.

? What does this year have to do with prior years? The 2011 MVP is based on this year alone. And FWIW, Boozer has played the vast majority of this year, averaging 19/10 on 54% shooting and somehow, the team has been a better defensive team since Noah has been out. It's not that Rose isn't deserving - he's just an inferior player to LeBron on an inferior team.

Are the Bulls the inferior team? I mean really. Are the Heat THAT much better than the Bulls? I have serious doubts there, honestly. If the two do in fact meet up in the 2nd round of the playoffs and Noah & Boozer are fully healthy, my money's on Chicago. And that's even if they don't pull off a trade for JR Smith to upgrade their 2 spot.

Betting against a team that has both LeBron and Wade is not a smart idea.

Miami IS a better team. Chicago isnt going to go from a team that couldnt make it out of the first round to a title favorite just with the addition of Boozer, a guy who didnt even make the all star team this year.

Chicago is the future, but Miami has too many dominante wing players and Chicago have one.

Unless you think Bogans + Deng will have their way with LeBron+Wade.

A Chicago/Miami series will be a bloodshed, with Chicagos bigs unable to handle LeBron and Wades penetration, fouls will be called, and Chicagos lack of frontline depth will be exposed, as well as their lack of offense.




Lets just break the teams down if they were to face each other.

LeBron vs Deng. LeBrons a great defender, if LeBron can bother Pierce, Deng is REALLY going to have a tough time scoring.

Bogans vs Wade. No clue how Bogans is even in the NBA. This guy averages like 2 points a game, hes basically useless on the offensive end. Wade will dominate him on both ends.

Noah vs Big Z/Anthony. Big Z will draw Noah outside of the paint with his range, and will open it up for LeBron/Wade to penetrate.
Anthony is a better defender then people give him credit for. On the other end, Noah is not a great offensive player, he gets his points from hustle plays and put backs, he has no offensive game outside of that.

Boozer vs Bosh. Again, Boozer is bothered by big men with length, I expect Bosh to get the better of this match up on both ends.

Rose vs Chalmers. Rose will dominate not only because he can, but because he HAS to. Outside of Rose, the Bulls have no scorers that will have a great series, all of their players are either limited offensively (Noah/Bogans), or can be easily shut down by Miami defense (LeBron on Deng) or bothered by Miami length (Bosh on Boozer)

Chicago Bench vs Heat Bench Miami has the worst bench in the league, Chicago's bench has to outplay the Miami bench EVERY GAME if they want want a chance to win because the Chicago starters dont have enough offensive fire power outside of Rose to keep up.

Bottom line is that outside of Rose and to a lesser extendent Boozer, they have ZERO scoring ability, they are going to have an extremely hard time putting points on the board and it will be up to Rose to single handedly be the best player on the COURT for them to win this series, the bulls just dont have enough offensive options.

The series is going to come down to how Boozer can deal with Bosh's length on the defensive end, and how much production the Bulls are going to get out of their bench, in the meantime dealing with LeBron and Wade dominating their wing players and riddling their big men with fouls.
Noah/Miami's Center Mashup: I expect Noah to dominate the boards in this matchup. He's just a far better rebounder than any of the Miami centers.

Boozer/Bosh: I'm gonna give this matchup to Boozer - Bosh is a terrible defender whose afraid of contact. Boozer is one of the best offensive power forwards in the league, Bosh isn't gonna shut him down. Furthermore, the fact that Bosh is more of a jumpshooter this year pulls him away from the basket, allowing Booz to get more boards. As C's fans know all too well, rebounding is CRUCIAL. Booz and Noah will have a field day.

LBJ/Deng: LBJ wins here, but don't underestimate Deng's defense. No one's gonna shut down LBJ, but Deng will make him work. Also expect LBJ to exert a lot of energy on the boards - he's gonna have to average close to double figures in that catergory to keep Chicago from completely dominating that category.

Wade/Bogans: Wade gets the nod here.

Rose/Chalmers: D.Rose gets this nod.

The Benches: Miami's bench is it's biggest liability. Expect that to be a factor.

Coaching: Thibs is a defensive wiz, with Finals experience. He'll coach circles around Spoelstra. His defensive schemes will disrupt Miami's transition offense - which is where they're most effective.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 10:39:16 PM by RJ87 »
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Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2011, 11:05:51 PM »

Offline EmilioBonilla

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Our best friend, Rose's teammate, Brian Scalabrine for MVP!  ;D
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Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2011, 02:33:40 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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This is the best argument I've read on the issue (at least, the best one that doesn't rely entirely on abstract stats, which all show clearly that Rose is nowhere close to being MVP).

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoopmiamiheat/post/_/id/4755/a-closer-look-at-lebron-vs-d-rose-mvp-debate

The argument, basically, posits that it is Thibodeau's defensive philosophy, not Rose's transcendent talent, that has lifted the Bulls this season.  It's hard to argue with that.
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Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2011, 02:46:36 PM »

Offline nba is the worst

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It's not like the Heat haven't had key players injured either (Miller, Haslem). For me, the bottom line is LeBron is clearly the better player in almost every aspect of the game, putting up better numbers on a better team.
Neither player is a starter - and the heatles are 1 loss better than the Bulls, missing starters for over 50 games, with a weaker (although not by much) SOS.

Bottom line for me is he won it 2 years in a row already - and doesn't deserve a third straight.

? What does this year have to do with prior years? The 2011 MVP is based on this year alone. And FWIW, Boozer has played the vast majority of this year, averaging 19/10 on 54% shooting and somehow, the team has been a better defensive team since Noah has been out. It's not that Rose isn't deserving - he's just an inferior player to LeBron on an inferior team.
Are you unaware of the MNP award's history - because a claim that who won recently has nothing to do with who gets voted in the current year is naive at best.

And your claim that the heatles are a "better team" is certainly debateable.

Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2011, 08:43:07 PM »

Offline soap07

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Has anyone noticed Rose's numbers recently? He's shooting 35% over his last 5 games and 4 turnovers per game.

On the season, while he's averaging 24.6 points-per-game, he's somehow shooting a career low 44% from the field, which isn't particularly good for any player, let alone an MVP candidate. His three-point percentage is now below 34%. He's also not even in the top 10 for PER, FWIW.

This just doesn't scream MVP to me, not when LeBron is on a team with a better record, is first in the league in PER and has better numbers overall.

Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2011, 08:47:43 PM »

Offline Megatron

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Has anyone noticed Rose's numbers recently? He's shooting 35% over his last 5 games and 4 turnovers per game.

On the season, while he's averaging 24.6 points-per-game, he's somehow shooting a career low 44% from the field, which isn't particularly good for any player, let alone an MVP candidate. His three-point percentage is now below 34%. He's also not even in the top 10 for PER, FWIW.

This just doesn't scream MVP to me, not when LeBron is on a team with a better record, is first in the league in PER and has better numbers overall.

Rose is slumping. If Rose plays bad his team have no chance, he is what LeBron was to the cavaliers.

Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2011, 08:49:03 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I think Dwight Howard is going to take it.

Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2011, 08:50:46 PM »

Offline soap07

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Has anyone noticed Rose's numbers recently? He's shooting 35% over his last 5 games and 4 turnovers per game.

On the season, while he's averaging 24.6 points-per-game, he's somehow shooting a career low 44% from the field, which isn't particularly good for any player, let alone an MVP candidate. His three-point percentage is now below 34%. He's also not even in the top 10 for PER, FWIW.

This just doesn't scream MVP to me, not when LeBron is on a team with a better record, is first in the league in PER and has better numbers overall.

Rose is slumping. If Rose plays bad his team have no chance, he is what LeBron was to the cavaliers.

Really? They beat Miami the other day even though Rose had a terrible game. I think they're depth gets undersold a bit.

Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2011, 08:51:31 PM »

Online Donoghus

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Has anyone noticed Rose's numbers recently? He's shooting 35% over his last 5 games and 4 turnovers per game.

On the season, while he's averaging 24.6 points-per-game, he's somehow shooting a career low 44% from the field, which isn't particularly good for any player, let alone an MVP candidate. His three-point percentage is now below 34%. He's also not even in the top 10 for PER, FWIW.

This just doesn't scream MVP to me, not when LeBron is on a team with a better record, is first in the league in PER and has better numbers overall.


Because its not just a numbers thing.

With the MVP, people tend to look at a bigger picture than simply metics like PER, FG%, and TO.  That's great for people who want to quantify it all with numbers and come up with an MVP.  

A lot of people out there see Rose as the singular face of a Bulls team that has become a serious contender not just in the East but perhaps for the Finals.  They look at the parts around him and feel that his contributions have been HUGE to the success of the Chicago Bulls.  Playing for a larger market team that gets pretty decent television exposure helps and the fact that he has performed pretty well on the biggest stages (i.e national telecasts) have contributed to the notion that Derrick Rose is a serious MVP contender.

Whether its justified or not, Lebron hasn't been seen in the same light.  In large part to the fact he plays with two other supposedly Top 10 guys in Wade & Bosh.


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Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2011, 08:52:34 PM »

Offline soap07

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I think Dwight Howard is going to take it.

And he would be undeserving. Orlando is only 3 games in front of the 10th best team in the NBA. The team may conceivably not have home court in a terrible Eastern Conference in the first round.

Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2011, 08:54:10 PM »

Offline soap07

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Has anyone noticed Rose's numbers recently? He's shooting 35% over his last 5 games and 4 turnovers per game.

On the season, while he's averaging 24.6 points-per-game, he's somehow shooting a career low 44% from the field, which isn't particularly good for any player, let alone an MVP candidate. His three-point percentage is now below 34%. He's also not even in the top 10 for PER, FWIW.

This just doesn't scream MVP to me, not when LeBron is on a team with a better record, is first in the league in PER and has better numbers overall.


Because its not just a numbers thing.

With the MVP, people tend to look at a bigger picture than simply metics like PER, FG%, and TO.  That's great for people who want to quantify it all with numbers and come up with an MVP.  

A lot of people out there see Rose as the singular face of a Bulls team that has become a serious contender not just in the East but perhaps for the Finals.  They look at the parts around him and feel that his contributions have been HUGE to the success of the Chicago Bulls.  Playing for a larger market team that gets pretty decent television exposure helps and the fact that he has performed pretty well on the biggest stages (i.e national telecasts) have contributed to the notion that Derrick Rose is a serious MVP contender.

Whether its justified or not, Lebron hasn't been seen in the same light.  In large part to the fact he plays with two other supposedly Top 10 guys in Wade & Bosh.

This is a fair and rational write-up.

I suppose my point is  that the gulf in talent and performance this season between Rose/LeBron is so large that it should trump that. Who knows if it will though?

Re: Who will win MVP? Lebron or Rose?
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2011, 09:13:33 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Has anyone noticed Rose's numbers recently? He's shooting 35% over his last 5 games and 4 turnovers per game.

On the season, while he's averaging 24.6 points-per-game, he's somehow shooting a career low 44% from the field, which isn't particularly good for any player, let alone an MVP candidate. His three-point percentage is now below 34%. He's also not even in the top 10 for PER, FWIW.

This just doesn't scream MVP to me, not when LeBron is on a team with a better record, is first in the league in PER and has better numbers overall.

Rose is slumping. If Rose plays bad his team have no chance, he is what LeBron was to the cavaliers.

Really? They beat Miami the other day even though Rose had a terrible game. I think they're depth gets undersold a bit.

  A good team beating Miami is nothing to write home about.