Daniels Injury - Harangody & TAllen

[ScoobyDoo]

Obviously the Daniels injury is a big hit for us. I remember getting into a long thread about the need for another legit SF behind Pierce at the beginning of the season because Daniels was likely to go down. Here we are...

1. Does anyone know what the likelihood of Daniels returning this season are? What's the latest on this?

2. Outside of a deadline trade or a buy out I don't see a solution for this hole behind Pierce if Daniels comes back. I'd prefer to keep Wafer at ther two spot.

My vote would be to just put Gody in there for 10-15 a night behind Pierce. Post him on offense, help him on D. Just keep Pierce fresh and rested, don't grind him.

3. I think this team would have been able to go to another entire level defensively this year if we still had TAllen as our lock down defensive wing off the bench.

We now have, when healthy, all the length and muscle we need inside, but I do think we miss TAllen's wing defense at certain times. Like when Kobe was going off against us last week - TAllen on Kobe probably would have made the difference in that game, etc.

It would be fun to see our defense this year with TA still in the mix. I think not having that lock down wing defender is a weak spot for us.

[pearljammer10]

We need a SF, Tony Allen is a guard, his defense is minimally missed and his boneheaded decision making is not.

[snively]

We need a SF, Tony Allen is a guard, his defense is minimally missed and his boneheaded decision making is not.

TA's excellent strength, length, athleticism and tenacity have made him an excellent defender against most SFs.  He's not an easy post-up target and he's very difficult to turn and face against. 

The only 3's that TA has trouble with are guys like Carmelo Anthony, who plays with a power face-up game like Amare. 

As for the OP, I would love TA back.  But Memphis is in an ill-fated playoff hunt and they'll want value back for one of their rotation guys (and TA has emerged as their defensive leader).  We'd have to offer up a 1st round pick to get them interested.

[Tai]

Von Wafer's only 4 pounds less and an inch taller than Tony Allen, has bought into the defense, and you know what else? Wafer can actually shoot.

Someone on the ESPN boards said it best; we're basically getting everything Tony Allen did out of Wafer at a discount at this point of the season. The fact that even Doc has praised Wafer about his transformation...what more do you want?

[CDawg834]

If I see one more thread started about bringing back Tony Allen, I'm gonna throw my computer off the roof. 

[MBz]

Von Wafer's only 4 pounds less and an inch taller than Tony Allen, has bought into the defense, and you know what else? Wafer can actually shoot.

Someone on the ESPN boards said it best; we're basically getting everything Tony Allen did out of Wafer at a discount at this point of the season. The fact that even Doc has praised Wafer about his transformation...what more do you want?

Yes, he's putting in the effort on defense, but he is not as good of a defender as TA.  Look at what Kobe did to Von Wafer.  Kobe got into a rhythm against Wafer at that point it didn't matter who covered him because he was too hot to be shut down.  Tony Allen is a guy who can keep guys like Kobe from getting into rhythm, Von Wafer can't do that. 

[Tai]

Von Wafer's only 4 pounds less and an inch taller than Tony Allen, has bought into the defense, and you know what else? Wafer can actually shoot.

Someone on the ESPN boards said it best; we're basically getting everything Tony Allen did out of Wafer at a discount at this point of the season. The fact that even Doc has praised Wafer about his transformation...what more do you want?

Yes, he's putting in the effort on defense, but he is not as good of a defender as TA.  Look at what Kobe did to Von Wafer.  Kobe got into a rhythm against Wafer at that point it didn't matter who covered him because he was too hot to be shut down.  Tony Allen is a guy who can keep guys like Kobe from getting into rhythm, Von Wafer can't do that. 

So you're not only blaming Wafer for supposedly allowing Kobe to do what he wanted (I mean, Kobe seemed to score 10 points out of his 23 when Wafer was on the floor...that's 13 to I assume Ray?), but you blame him for letting Kobe be "too hot"? That's not how it works, man. Kobe's hard to guard for a reason. If Ray Allen can't come back, rested and all, and shut down Kobe, even if you don't want to blame Ray, you don't blame Von for doing what he could and then watching  Kobe torch someone else. Kobe got hot, fine. Telling me TA stopped Kobe from getting hot is over-glorifying him, he fell for pump fakes here and there as well, and at the end of the day, he's still shorter than Kobe. What TA did was stop Kobe from going to the paint, and then contested. That's all you could ask your defender to do against Kobe, and that's all we can ask of Von.

TA isn't worth bringing back if we already have Von, plain and simple.

[BballTim]

Von Wafer's only 4 pounds less and an inch taller than Tony Allen, has bought into the defense, and you know what else? Wafer can actually shoot.

Someone on the ESPN boards said it best; we're basically getting everything Tony Allen did out of Wafer at a discount at this point of the season. The fact that even Doc has praised Wafer about his transformation...what more do you want?

  If you thought that Allen guarding Kobe in the finals and Wafer guarding Kobe last week looked about the same then, yes, we're getting everything from Wafer we got from TA.

[greenpride32]

My vote would be to just put Gody in there for 10-15 a night behind Pierce. Post him on offense, help him on D. Just keep Pierce fresh and rested, don't grind him.

Luke isn't good enough to play 10-15 minutes, and he doesn't even play the 3.  This is a solution a non-contending team would use, but not a championship caliber team.

[ScoobyDoo]

Well, this thread "wasn't" actually a thread saying we should bring back TAllen. It "was" a thread about:
 
1. Asking about Daniel's time frame and chances of coming back this year?

2. Suggesting we just stick Gody at the three behind Pierce and let the team try to find a rhythym with that rotation until we can maybe pick someone else up thorugh trade or buy out

3. And lastly a thread suggesting this team could get to another whole level defensively if we still had a lock down defensive wing coming off the bench - the role that TAllen played before being traded.

I never said I wanted us to go get TAllen back, I don't think that's realistic.

But we miss the defensive element he brought to this defense at the wing position off the bench.

I like Wafer's improvement and I'm pulling for him big time, but he brings nothing even close to what TAllen brings defensively. Kobe stated TAllen is one of the toughest guys he has to go against defensively. I doubt very much he feels the same about Von Wafer at this point.

Would I mind if TA came back for defensive purposes? Not at all. Moreso though, wouldn've have just liked to have seen us pick up another good wing defender to replace him - just didn't work out.

[ScoobyDoo]

I actually agree with you Green Pride - right now Luke is a decent if smallish, 3rd or 4th string PF. I got that.

My point is, given Daniels may not come back, what are the choices for backing up Pierce?

Wafer?
Delonte?
Big Baby?
Ray Allen? ( With DWest at the two, if healthy?)

If we don't make a trade or pick someone up off of buyouts, I'd rather keep my twos playing the two spots and I'd rather go big behind Pierce than small, especially come playoff time.

Perkins / Shaq / Semih
KG / Baby / Jermaine
Pierce / Harangody
Ray / Wafer / Bradley
Rondo / DWest / Nate

I'm just not a big fan of going small behind Pierce, expecially in the playoffs.

And if there is a decent chance Daniels may not come back, I'd rather go big behind Pierce with Gody and try to let the team start building continutity with him now.

* He can stretch the D with his outside shot
* Maybe we can post him on Offense and beat up other small forwards
* We help him out on D with team effort

Daniesl is bad enough at the three - based on his size - come playoff time, let alone Wafer...and if we aren't able to pick anyone up of value through trade deadline deals or buyouts...

What's the solution behind Pierce? 

[mgent]

We need a SF, Tony Allen is a guard, his defense is minimally missed and his boneheaded decision making is not.

You're ridiculous if you think Tony's defense is "minimally" missed.  The guy is one of the top defenders in the league and one of the few that can lock down 1-3.  Sure a SF would be ideal but make no mistake TA's defense at the 3 is significantly than what we were getting from Marquis (another true SG).  Tony Allen would be a Godsend, not a minimally missed luxury.

I nominate him for most underrated player in the history of this blog.

[Spilling Green Dye]

While giving rest & health to the starters is tops on my list, getting 1st place and homecourt advantage throughout the playoffs is a very close 2nd.  For this reason I'm not a fan of Harangody getting anything other than garbage-time minutes.

Delonte re-injuring himself is a definite setback, but I really like what I see from Von Wafer.  He's playing with intensity, passion, and intelligence.  We can't expect him to be perfect, but right now I think he's one of the easiest players to route for on this team!  He's filling in nicely and I'm all for him getting more minutes to rest Pierce, etc. 

If we were to make a trade, I would like to trade Nate Robinson + draft pick (we don't need another 30th pick) + cash for someone worthwhile. 

[ScoobyDoo]

I agree with mgent re TA's value on D, especially come playoff time. In a game such as the Lakers last Thursday, bringing him in on D when Kobe started going off probably wouldn't gotten the W. He would also be very valuable against Miami this year.

That being said, if we're mostly healthy, I think we crush Miami regardless.

But right now, if Daniels can't come back at near full speed, and Harangody can't pul if off for 10-15 a night behind Pierce, what's the solution?

I like the Nate + 1st for someone, with one fairly major reservation:

If Delonte goes down and Marquis isn't playing, we're looking at Bradley as our back up point guard during the playoffs. 

[Meadowlark_Scal]

TA shut down the best offensive players last year, and then again this year, he just shut down Durant, and then scored 27 in his face, along with 5 steals..not sure how many blocks. The funny thing is that so many here go off on TA, through the microscope, on his mistakes, while pp, ray,and many others turn it over, throw it away, hold on too long to the ball...and so many other mistakes......as if those mistakes don't count also.....? TA would have been a big help this year, and he was the only one to run the floor with Rondo, and dunk at the end...! Who is replacing him, daniels was supposed to, not even close in any aspect. ( i do hope he is well)...Too bad we let him go for short $$$.