If only Perk could set screens like Wade.

[Birdbrain]

Garnett was set however (he in fact was just waiting on Miller), Wade wasn't in any way set in his screen.

He lowered his shoulder into Miller, which is an automatic (and correct) offensive foul call on any player not named Kevin Garnett. Just saying.

Dampier, Perkins, LeBron, Fisher, Howard, Pierce, and Davis have all done similar things many times and not been called.

Leaning into a screen isn't an automatic call at all.

Maybe other star players get away with similar stuff. Garnett moves and leans on screens most, if not all of the time.

The bottom line is that both calls discussed here could have gone either way, and I really have no problem with this, as long as they went the same way. If anything, Garnett's screen was less legal than Wade's.

No your interpretation of both plays isn't even close to being correct.  But it is does have a quaint contrarion feel to it. 

I think BBD may have tried to oversell a clear moving screen.  Garnett's was without a doubt a legal screen.

[Chris]

Honestly, KG's screen is barely illegal. He's fully set, but dips his shoulder a little. It was probably only called because the game was getting chippy at that point so the refs were expecting retaliation.

KG's screen wasn't called a foul.  Ray's shot was good and then Wade got the (probably excessive) Flagrant-1 for retaliating.

Yeah and agree, it was excessive. In the chat people were saying Wade threw an elbow at Garnett's head and missed, but to me it looks like he gave him a weak sauce shoulder check and Garnett sold it a little. There wasn't any real malice in Wade's "retaliation".

Yeah, it was clearly retaliation, my question is why it was a flagrant and not a technical, while KG's shot to Frye's happy place was a technical.  Does anyone know what the difference was between those?

I think KG's shot to Frye was looked at more as "unsportsmanlike". Like if you flicked a guy in the eye. I guess people can debate on how hard KG actually hit Frye but to me it was more of a tap.

Dwade's hit was more physical force and dangerous. I think what
Dwade did could actually injure someone where again IMO KG's was a tap

I guess.  I just thought since both of them were kind of unnecessary at the end of plays, they would both be treated the same...although I do think KG's was worse.  At the time, I thought KG should have been given a flagrant 2, rather than 2 technicals.  And with Wade getting a flagrant rather than a technical for his play, I think that even more. 

[Birdbrain]

Wade's was a flagrant by the rule book (not in my book) and as many as the C's get I won't be crying for Wade.

[Fafnir]

A flagrant foul is unnecessary and/or excessive contact committed by a player against
an opponent whether the ball is dead or alive.

Section V—Conduct
a. An official may assess a technical foul, without prior warning, at any time. A technical
foul(s) may be assessed to any player on the court or anyone seated on the bench for conduct
which, in the opinion of an official, is detrimental to the game. The technical foul must
be charged to an individual. A technical foul cannot be assessed for physical contact when
the ball is alive.
EXCEPTION: Fighting fouls and/or taunting with physical contact.
b. A maximum of two technicals for unsportsmanlike acts may be assessed any player,
coach or trainer. Any of these offenders may be ejected for committing only one unsportsmanlike
act, and they must be ejected for committing two unsportsmanlike acts.
c. A technical foul called for (1) delay of game, (2) coaches box violations, (3) defensive
3-seconds, (4) having a team total of less or more than five players when the ball
becomes alive, (5) a player hanging on the basket ring or backboard, (6) participation in the
game when not on team’s active list, or (7) shattering the backboard or making the rim
unplayable during the game (Comments On the Rules—G) is not considered an act of
unsportsmanlike conduct.
d. A technical foul shall be assessed for unsportsmanlike tactics such as:
(1) Disrespectfully addressing an official
(2) Physically contacting an official
(3) Overt actions indicating resentment to a call
(4) Use of profanity
(5) A coach entering onto the court without permission of an official
– 40 –
Official Rules for NBA -- 2010-2011 season
8-17-2010, rev 1 on 8-30-2010, rev 2 8-31
rev 3> 8-31, rev 4: 9-7
(6) A deliberately-thrown elbow or any attempted physical act with no contact
involved
(7) Taunting
e. Cursing or blaspheming an official shall not be considered the only cause for imposing
technical fouls. Running tirades, continuous criticism or griping may be sufficient cause
to assess a technical. Excessive misconduct shall result in ejection from the game.
f. Assessment of a technical foul shall be avoided whenever and wherever possible; but,
when necessary they are to be assessed without delay or procrastination. Once a player has
been ejected or the game is over, technicals cannot be assessed regardless of the provocation.
Any additional unsportsmanlike conduct shall be reported by E-mail immediately to the
League Office.
g. If a technical foul is assessed to a team following a personal foul on the same team,
the free throw attempt for the technical foul shall be administered first.
h. The ball shall be awarded to the team which had possession at the time the technical
foul was assessed, whether the free throw attempt is successful or not. Play shall be resumed
by a throw-in nearest the spot where play was interrupted.
EXCEPTION: Rule 12A—Section I.
i. Anyone guilty of illegal contact which occurs during a dead ball may be assessed (1) a
technical foul, if the contact is deemed to be unsportsmanlike in nature, or (2) a flagrant
foul, if unnecessary and/or excessive contact occurs.
j. Free throws awarded for a technical foul must be attempted by a player in the game
when the technical foul is assessed.
(1) If a substitute has been beckoned into the game or has been recognized by the
officials as being in the game prior to a technical foul being assessed, he is eligible
to attempt the free throw(s).
(2) If the technical foul is assessed before the opening tap, any player listed in the
scorebook as a starter is eligible to attempt the free throw(s).
(3) If a technical foul is assessed before the starting lineup is indicated, any player on
the squad may attempt the free throw(s).
k. A technical foul, unsportsmanlike act or flagrant foul must be called for a participant
to be ejected.
EXCEPTION: Rule 12A—Section V—l(5)
l. A player, coach or trainer must be ejected for:
(1) A punching foul
(2) A fighting foul
(3) Technical foul for an attempted punch or swing with no contact or a thrown
elbow toward an opponent above shoulder level with no contact
(4) Deliberately entering the stands other than as a continuance of play
(5) Flagrant foul penalty (2)
(6) Second flagrant foul penalty (1)
(7) Participation in the game when not on team’s active list
m. Eye guarding (placing a hand in front of the opponent’s eyes when guarding from the
rear) a player who does not have possession of the ball is illegal and an unsportsmanlike
technical shall be assessed.
n. A free throw attempt is awarded when one technical foul is assessed.
– 41 –
Official Rules for NBA -- 2010-2011 season
8-17-2010, rev 1 on 8-30-2010, rev 2 8-31
rev 3> 8-31, rev 4: 9-7
o. No free throw attempts are awarded when a double technical foul is assessed. Technical
fouls assessed to opposing teams during the same dead ball and prior to the administering
of any free throw attempt for the first technical foul, shall be interpreted as a double
technical foul.
p. The deliberate act of throwing the ball or any object at an official by a player, coach
or trainer is a technical foul and violators are subject to ejection from the game.
q. Punching fouls, although recorded as both personal and team fouls, are unsportsmanlike
acts. The player will be ejected immediately.

Based on those two sections I think a flagrant-1 was the proper call.

[indeedproceed]

Garnett's was without a doubt a legal screen.

Are you allowed to lean into screens like he did?



I seriously don't know.

[barefacedmonk]

He gave Mike Miller a dirty elbow to the back of the head then when D-Wade came to Miller's defense it was Wade that was hit with the flagrant-1.

This is from the front page on Heat's blog.

When did KG elbow Miller?

[kozlodoev]

No your interpretation of both plays isn't even close to being correct.  But it is does have a quaint contrarion feel to it.

Either that, or yours smells of homerism.

(it's also spelled "contrariAn", by the way)

[Birdbrain]

Garnett's was without a doubt a legal screen.

Are you allowed to lean into screens like he did?



I seriously don't know.

His feet were set.  : )

But it was payback so maybe he did lean a tad. 

[Birdbrain]

No your interpretation of both plays isn't even close to being correct.  But it is does have a quaint contrarion feel to it.

Either that, or yours smells of homerism.

(it's also spelled "contrariAn", by the way)

You should know the spelling.  Thanks for heads up though. TP for sparking a discussion by taking the other side.   

[barefacedmonk]

Watch the video here...it clearly looks like Wade shoved BBD, imo.

[wdleehi]

Garnett's was without a doubt a legal screen.

Are you allowed to lean into screens like he did?



I seriously don't know.

Hard to tell on that photo. 

Is KG leaning because he is delivering a blow (in which case, he missed) or is he leaning because a 200 lb man just ran into his body?

[indeedproceed]

Watch the video here...it clearly looks like Wade shoved BBD, imo.

I've seen that video almost 10 times...and I still don't see a clear shove from Wade that I'd take offense to.. he's clearly setting a moving screen, but I don't see a shove.

Garnett's was without a doubt a legal screen.

Are you allowed to lean into screens like he did?



I seriously don't know.

Hard to tell on that photo. 

Is KG leaning because he is delivering a blow (in which case, he missed) or is he leaning because a 200 lb man just ran into his body?

He definitely leaned into the hit, took the hit and leaned again. I just took a printscreen from a youtube video.

[Chris]

I've seen that video almost 10 times...and I still don't see a clear shove from Wade that I'd take offense to.. he's clearly setting a moving screen, but I don't see a shove.

I agree.  It looks bad because it was a head on collision with Davis, who went down hard, but I don't see anything blatant by Wade. 

I also think what we should be talking is about Pierce not doing a better job of fouling Lebron, so they couldn't even get a 3 pointer up.  He certainly tried, but given the way they were calling the game, he needed to really hit Lebron a lot harder to make sure the play was stopped. 

[RockinRyA]

kg's alleged tap to frye isnt so much the issue as kg going underneath frye.

I think they also determine follow through and the likes to determine the calls

[angryguy77]

Between LeRoid, Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. and mr. fake tough, do heat fams really have a reason to complain? What a joke, these three clowns are gifted calls all the time.