What is with all the KG hatred?

[thirstyboots18]

KG is a great complimentary player (maybe the best ever in that regard), but he is not a #1 guy and never has been.  He always has needed players around with him the killer instinct and stones to hit the big shot.  He got that with Spree and Co. in Minny and now has it with Pierce and Allen in Boston.

I think that's unfair, his offensive game hasn't aged as well so now he needs Pierce/Allen/Rondo. But early in his career he was a dynamic number one offensive option. Excellent shooting, passing, face up, and post game.

Plus I'll add that every time he's had a decent team around him he went far in the playoffs, they put a lot of garbage around him.

Moranis, I absolutely do not understand your post.  Who, in your opinion, was a true #1 guy?  No one has ever, let me reiterate, no one has EVER won a title as a team of one!  Even Russell, who won more titles than anyone in history, is a TEAM player...his particular role was guarding the rim not shooting.  His team needed his skills, and he needed his team.

Michael Jordan never won until he had a specially constructed team around him.  The great (tongue in cheek) LeBron James still hasn't won anything.   What is your definition of a #1 guy, please?

[Moranis]

KG is a great complimentary player (maybe the best ever in that regard), but he is not a #1 guy and never has been.  He always has needed players around with him the killer instinct and stones to hit the big shot.  He got that with Spree and Co. in Minny and now has it with Pierce and Allen in Boston.

I think that's unfair, his offensive game hasn't aged as well so now he needs Pierce/Allen/Rondo. But early in his career he was a dynamic number one offensive option. Excellent shooting, passing, face up, and post game.

Plus I'll add that every time he's had a decent team around him he went far in the playoffs, they put a lot of garbage around him.

He didn't get out of the first round 1 time in 7 seasons.  That says all you really need to know.

[Moranis]

KG is a great complimentary player (maybe the best ever in that regard), but he is not a #1 guy and never has been.  He always has needed players around with him the killer instinct and stones to hit the big shot.  He got that with Spree and Co. in Minny and now has it with Pierce and Allen in Boston.

I think that's unfair, his offensive game hasn't aged as well so now he needs Pierce/Allen/Rondo. But early in his career he was a dynamic number one offensive option. Excellent shooting, passing, face up, and post game.

Plus I'll add that every time he's had a decent team around him he went far in the playoffs, they put a lot of garbage around him.

Moranis, I absolutely do not understand your post.  Who, in your opinion, was a true #1 guy?  No one has ever, let me reiterate, no one has EVER won a title as a team of one!  Even Russell, who won more titles than anyone in history, is a TEAM player...his particular role was guarding the rim not shooting.  His team needed his skills, and he needed his team.

Michael Jordan never won until he had a specially constructed team around him.  The great (tongue in cheek) LeBron James still hasn't won anything.   What is your definition of a #1 guy, please?

Those guys got out of the first round.  You need a great team to win a championship, you do not however need a great team to get out of the first round.  Lebron took a team that was as crappy as the Minnesota teams Garnett was on to the NBA Finals.  I mean seriously, that Cavs team had Z, Gooden, Hughes, and Snow starting with Lebron.  The rotation was a very young Verajao, Donyell Marshall, and Pavlovic. 

The 01-02 Wolves which had the same record as the Cavs (50-32) had Billups, Wally, Joe Smith, and Nestorvic starting with Garnett with a rotation of Peeler, Trent, and Mitchell.  That team was swept by Dallas in the first round (dallas lost the next round 4-1 to Sacramento). 

To think those teams aren't similar aside from the big dog is just crazy.  The Wolves with Garnett significantly underperformed.  To not win 1 first round series in 7 seasons is awful.  It is Tracy McGrady.  No way Lebron, Jordan, Russel, etc. don't get ouf the first round for 7 consecutive seasons with that sort of supporting cast.

[angryguy77]

KG is a great complimentary player (maybe the best ever in that regard), but he is not a #1 guy and never has been.  He always has needed players around with him the killer instinct and stones to hit the big shot.  He got that with Spree and Co. in Minny and now has it with Pierce and Allen in Boston.

I think that's unfair, his offensive game hasn't aged as well so now he needs Pierce/Allen/Rondo. But early in his career he was a dynamic number one offensive option. Excellent shooting, passing, face up, and post game.

Plus I'll add that every time he's had a decent team around him he went far in the playoffs, they put a lot of garbage around him.

He didn't get out of the first round 1 time in 7 seasons.  That says all you really need to know.

This is ridiculous. 08' we win #17 with KG.

09' we were bounced by a paper tiger....w/o kg

10' we make the finals....with a 80% kg and should have won.

11' reamins to be seen but so far we're the top if not the 2nd best team in the league.....with a healthy kg.

do you see a trend?

[Moranis]

KG is a great complimentary player (maybe the best ever in that regard), but he is not a #1 guy and never has been.  He always has needed players around with him the killer instinct and stones to hit the big shot.  He got that with Spree and Co. in Minny and now has it with Pierce and Allen in Boston.

I think that's unfair, his offensive game hasn't aged as well so now he needs Pierce/Allen/Rondo. But early in his career he was a dynamic number one offensive option. Excellent shooting, passing, face up, and post game.

Plus I'll add that every time he's had a decent team around him he went far in the playoffs, they put a lot of garbage around him.

He didn't get out of the first round 1 time in 7 seasons.  That says all you really need to know.

This is ridiculous. 08' we win #17 with KG.

09' we were bounced by a paper tiger....w/o kg

10' we make the finals....with a 80% kg and should have won.

11' reamins to be seen but so far we're the top if not the 2nd best team in the league.....with a healthy kg.

do you see a trend?

Yeah that KG is a great second fiddle to Pierce's top dog.  To win a title you need the second fiddle.  As 2009 demonstrated, you don't need a second fiddle to win a playoff series.

[drza44]

Those guys got out of the first round.  You need a great team to win a championship, you do not however need a great team to get out of the first round.  Lebron took a team that was as crappy as the Minnesota teams Garnett was on to the NBA Finals.  I mean seriously, that Cavs team had Z, Gooden, Hughes, and Snow starting with Lebron.  The rotation was a very young Verajao, Donyell Marshall, and Pavlovic.  

The 01-02 Wolves which had the same record as the Cavs (50-32) had Billups, Wally, Joe Smith, and Nestorvic starting with Garnett with a rotation of Peeler, Trent, and Mitchell.  That team was swept by Dallas in the first round (dallas lost the next round 4-1 to Sacramento).  

To think those teams aren't similar aside from the big dog is just crazy.  The Wolves with Garnett significantly underperformed.  To not win 1 first round series in 7 seasons is awful.  It is Tracy McGrady.  No way Lebron, Jordan, Russel, etc. don't get ouf the first round for 7 consecutive seasons with that sort of supporting cast.

Your ignorance is showing, as you are clearly dumbing down an argument to the point that it's meaningless.  You compared the '02 Wolves to the '07 Cavs, pointing out that the team support was similar but the Cavs made the Finals while the Wolves lost in the first round.  OK.  Now look at who they played.

'07 Cavs (50 - 32, #2 seed in East)

1st round opponent: 41 - 41 Wizards
2nd round opponent: 41 - 41 Nets
3rd round opponent: 53 - 29 Pistons
Finals opponent: 58 - 24 Spurs (swept)

'02 Wolves (50 - 32, #5 seed in West
1st round opponent: 57 - 25 Mavs (swept)

You can't just ignore that LeBron's team was facing .500 squads to get through the first couple of rounds.  The first time they faced a team as good as the Mavs they got swept...just like KG's Wolves did.  The fact that 50 wins was good enough for a #2 seed and cushy opponents in the watered down East but couldn't even get HCA against a powerhouse squad in the West isn't something you can pin on KG.

If you want to argue against Garnett there are things you can use, as he isn't a perfect player.  But the arguments you're making are just silly.

[angryguy77]

KG is a great complimentary player (maybe the best ever in that regard), but he is not a #1 guy and never has been.  He always has needed players around with him the killer instinct and stones to hit the big shot.  He got that with Spree and Co. in Minny and now has it with Pierce and Allen in Boston.

I think that's unfair, his offensive game hasn't aged as well so now he needs Pierce/Allen/Rondo. But early in his career he was a dynamic number one offensive option. Excellent shooting, passing, face up, and post game.

Plus I'll add that every time he's had a decent team around him he went far in the playoffs, they put a lot of garbage around him.

He didn't get out of the first round 1 time in 7 seasons.  That says all you really need to know.

This is ridiculous. 08' we win #17 with KG.

09' we were bounced by a paper tiger....w/o kg

10' we make the finals....with a 80% kg and should have won.

11' reamins to be seen but so far we're the top if not the 2nd best team in the league.....with a healthy kg.

do you see a trend?

Yeah that KG is a great second fiddle to Pierce's top dog.  To win a title you need the second fiddle.  As 2009 demonstrated, you don't need a second fiddle to win a playoff series.

Ok, a guy that transformed this team into a title contender is second fiddle? Who cares about first round wins in basketball? They mean nothing. It all depends on how you match up with the other team. We had an easier time with the pistons in 08 than the hawks because of the match up.
This team w/o kg is better than those Minn teams he was on. I have a hard time believing you can compare the two.


PP has said this team goes nowhere w/o KG. I could argue that it is PP who is second because he couldn't get over the hump w/o KG.
Also there are differences such as coaching, strength of the conference, injuries etc that you have to factor into discussions like this. You cant just blanket it and use a first round playoff sereis as a measure.
Is Dilfer a better qb than Marino because he has a ring? He must be if playoff wins are the sole determining factor.

[Celtics4ever]

I don't buy that Perk was a consistent post offensive option as for the two low post players.  He is a fringe offensive player at best.   Shaq can post up better.   But Perk simply isn't a good post option.  I don't buy its a different NBA either as LA had Bynum and Gasol last year both low post bigs, Fafnir.

[BballTim]

I don't buy that Perk was a consistent post offensive option as for the two low post players.  He is a fringe offensive player at best.   Shaq can post up better.   But Perk simply isn't a good post option.  I don't buy its a different NBA either as LA had Bynum and Gasol last year both low post bigs, Fafnir.

  It's not that Perk's necessarily a consistent low post option. But if he goes 15-20 feet away from the hoop, nobody guards him. His guys protects the rim whether he's inside or not. Gasol can get the ball 15 feet from the rim and either shoot it or drive so his man has to stay somewhat close to him.

[Fafnir]

KG is a great complimentary player (maybe the best ever in that regard), but he is not a #1 guy and never has been.  He always has needed players around with him the killer instinct and stones to hit the big shot.  He got that with Spree and Co. in Minny and now has it with Pierce and Allen in Boston.

I think that's unfair, his offensive game hasn't aged as well so now he needs Pierce/Allen/Rondo. But early in his career he was a dynamic number one offensive option. Excellent shooting, passing, face up, and post game.

Plus I'll add that every time he's had a decent team around him he went far in the playoffs, they put a lot of garbage around him.

He didn't get out of the first round 1 time in 7 seasons.  That says all you really need to know.

This is ridiculous. 08' we win #17 with KG.

09' we were bounced by a paper tiger....w/o kg

10' we make the finals....with a 80% kg and should have won.

11' reamins to be seen but so far we're the top if not the 2nd best team in the league.....with a healthy kg.

do you see a trend?

Yeah that KG is a great second fiddle to Pierce's top dog.  To win a title you need the second fiddle.  As 2009 demonstrated, you don't need a second fiddle to win a playoff series.

KG was our leading scorer for the playoffs, he was also our leading fourth quarter scorer for the playoffs.

Pierce won the Finals MVP by going off against Walton and Rad Man to a large extent. Eventually forcing Phil to put Kobe on him late in games.

Much like with Tim Duncan/Tony Parker our best player in the 07-08 playoffs was KG, Pierce just had a better Finals (and a better match up). Even then it was only slightly better, you could make a case for Ray/KG too.

[wiley]

KG is a great complimentary player (maybe the best ever in that regard), but he is not a #1 guy and never has been.  He always has needed players around with him the killer instinct and stones to hit the big shot.  He got that with Spree and Co. in Minny and now has it with Pierce and Allen in Boston.

I think that's unfair, his offensive game hasn't aged as well so now he needs Pierce/Allen/Rondo. But early in his career he was a dynamic number one offensive option. Excellent shooting, passing, face up, and post game.

Plus I'll add that every time he's had a decent team around him he went far in the playoffs, they put a lot of garbage around him.

He didn't get out of the first round 1 time in 7 seasons.  That says all you really need to know.

That says zero, actually.  In a tough Western conference, Some of KG's teams may have won, for example, 7-12 games without KG, as opposed to losing in the first round of the playoffs....There are more variables and unknowns than you can mangage in your argument/statement.  It is the same kind of argument/statement as saying Paul Pierce is a garbage player because he was on a team that only won 18 games.

[wiley]

KG is a great complimentary player (maybe the best ever in that regard), but he is not a #1 guy and never has been.  He always has needed players around with him the killer instinct and stones to hit the big shot.  He got that with Spree and Co. in Minny and now has it with Pierce and Allen in Boston.

I think that's unfair, his offensive game hasn't aged as well so now he needs Pierce/Allen/Rondo. But early in his career he was a dynamic number one offensive option. Excellent shooting, passing, face up, and post game.

Plus I'll add that every time he's had a decent team around him he went far in the playoffs, they put a lot of garbage around him.

He didn't get out of the first round 1 time in 7 seasons.  That says all you really need to know.

This is ridiculous. 08' we win #17 with KG.

09' we were bounced by a paper tiger....w/o kg

10' we make the finals....with a 80% kg and should have won.

11' reamins to be seen but so far we're the top if not the 2nd best team in the league.....with a healthy kg.

do you see a trend?

Yeah that KG is a great second fiddle to Pierce's top dog.  To win a title you need the second fiddle.  As 2009 demonstrated, you don't need a second fiddle to win a playoff series.

KG was our leading scorer for the playoffs.

wanted to bump this post too:  to repeat:  KG was our leading scorer for the playoffs.

.....to go along with being a defensive player of the year type defender.....

[NoraG1]

KG is a great complimentary player (maybe the best ever in that regard), but he is not a #1 guy and never has been.  He always has needed players around with him the killer instinct and stones to hit the big shot.  He got that with Spree and Co. in Minny and now has it with Pierce and Allen in Boston.

I think that's unfair, his offensive game hasn't aged as well so now he needs Pierce/Allen/Rondo. But early in his career he was a dynamic number one offensive option. Excellent shooting, passing, face up, and post game.

Plus I'll add that every time he's had a decent team around him he went far in the playoffs, they put a lot of garbage around him.

He didn't get out of the first round 1 time in 7 seasons.  That says all you really need to know.

It says all you really need to know about the crap team that was put around him. Minny has no idea how to construct a team around its star players.

[Eja117]

I just place KG firmly in the Peyton Manning category. Yes. He was very good. But there were others clearly better or just as good so why do we always talk about him?  

Slightly off topic, but I don't think there were any PFs in his era who were clearly better than KG.  I think Duncan was better, but I think it's arguable.  Those two were clearly the two best PFs of their time, though, I think.

Rodman. Dirk. Webber. Having a hard time thinking of the spectacular supporting cast Jermaine O'Neal had back in the day other than Reggie. Obviously if you open it up to just big men in general you got Shaq and Zo.  When you open it to players in general you get Iverson, Lebron, Steve Nash, Kobe, Jason Kidd back in the day.

KG is a much better all-around PF than Rodman, and I'm not sure that they played in the same era.

KG did everything Webber did on offense, and played much better defense.  Similarly, Dirk isn't in the conversation due to his lack of D.  JO had neither the peak nor the longevity.  Same thing with Zo.  

Shaq was better than KG.

Rodman was the only player I ever saw straight up defend Shaq. And he did a lot of dirty work. The kind that Perk does now.

Not saying JO was better. Just that some of the same excuses people give KG go for him too. Also JO's team went to the finals I think.

Webber took the Kings to the promised land and was within a very very very crooked series of winning.

Dirk took his team to a finals. So did Iverson. So did Lebron. Kidd did twice. Malone at least half did twice. Zo didn't have longevity?

Until KG came to the Celts for all his intensity he was nowhere near as accomplished as any of these guys

Take a look at the rosters before you start criticizing. Also at the time it was alot easier to advance in the East. Most of the players you mentioned got to the finals with better teams around them. KG could not beat Shaq and Kobe by himself which was essentially what would have had to happen with the 'talent' that was around him at the time. What is with the hate? KG is on the team and he makes the team better. Wow. I get you don't like KG's antics, not eveeryones cup of tea I get that. The haterade is overboard.  You are grasping at straws. I would enjoy KG being here because with him here the C's have a chance at winning another championship. You are not going to change anyones mind about KG.

KG got out of the first round 1 time in Minnesota.  If they were always losing to the Lakers or Spurs in the conference finals that would have been one thing, but losing in the first round of the post season for 7 consecutive seasons is quite another.  And in only 1 of those 7 consecutive years did the Wolves even play the team that represented the Western Conference in the Finals (the Spurs in 99).

KG is a great complimentary player (maybe the best ever in that regard), but he is not a #1 guy and never has been.  He always has needed players around with him the killer instinct and stones to hit the big shot.  He got that with Spree and Co. in Minny and now has it with Pierce and Allen in Boston.

Oh my God. Oh my God. You can't say that. You're gonna be called a hater and people will show you statistics and tell you to look at the rosters that were around him.

[NoraG1]

I just place KG firmly in the Peyton Manning category. Yes. He was very good. But there were others clearly better or just as good so why do we always talk about him?  

Slightly off topic, but I don't think there were any PFs in his era who were clearly better than KG.  I think Duncan was better, but I think it's arguable.  Those two were clearly the two best PFs of their time, though, I think.

Rodman. Dirk. Webber. Having a hard time thinking of the spectacular supporting cast Jermaine O'Neal had back in the day other than Reggie. Obviously if you open it up to just big men in general you got Shaq and Zo.  When you open it to players in general you get Iverson, Lebron, Steve Nash, Kobe, Jason Kidd back in the day.

KG is a much better all-around PF than Rodman, and I'm not sure that they played in the same era.

KG did everything Webber did on offense, and played much better defense.  Similarly, Dirk isn't in the conversation due to his lack of D.  JO had neither the peak nor the longevity.  Same thing with Zo.  

Shaq was better than KG.

Rodman was the only player I ever saw straight up defend Shaq. And he did a lot of dirty work. The kind that Perk does now.

Not saying JO was better. Just that some of the same excuses people give KG go for him too. Also JO's team went to the finals I think.

Webber took the Kings to the promised land and was within a very very very crooked series of winning.

Dirk took his team to a finals. So did Iverson. So did Lebron. Kidd did twice. Malone at least half did twice. Zo didn't have longevity?

Until KG came to the Celts for all his intensity he was nowhere near as accomplished as any of these guys

Take a look at the rosters before you start criticizing. Also at the time it was alot easier to advance in the East. Most of the players you mentioned got to the finals with better teams around them. KG could not beat Shaq and Kobe by himself which was essentially what would have had to happen with the 'talent' that was around him at the time. What is with the hate? KG is on the team and he makes the team better. Wow. I get you don't like KG's antics, not eveeryones cup of tea I get that. The haterade is overboard.  You are grasping at straws. I would enjoy KG being here because with him here the C's have a chance at winning another championship. You are not going to change anyones mind about KG.

KG got out of the first round 1 time in Minnesota.  If they were always losing to the Lakers or Spurs in the conference finals that would have been one thing, but losing in the first round of the post season for 7 consecutive seasons is quite another.  And in only 1 of those 7 consecutive years did the Wolves even play the team that represented the Western Conference in the Finals (the Spurs in 99).

KG is a great complimentary player (maybe the best ever in that regard), but he is not a #1 guy and never has been.  He always has needed players around with him the killer instinct and stones to hit the big shot.  He got that with Spree and Co. in Minny and now has it with Pierce and Allen in Boston.

Oh my God. Oh my God. You can't say that. You're gonna be called a hater and people will show you statistics and tell you to look at the rosters that were around him.

Yeah don't want FACTS to get in the way.