Deron Williams threatens to leave Utah in 2012 ( Can he play SG?)

[rondohondo]

i just dont understand it rondo shuts down deron williams to 5 pts and 6 ast and we wanna trade for deron??? with everything rondo brings us even our own celtics fans would trade rondo for deron... thats just stupid what else rondo has to do to prove u ppl wrong..rondo best pg defender and passer in the nba and we would trade him for some bum with a jump shot gotta be kidding me

So because people disagree with you they are stupid? Yea Williams is such a bum, just ask anyone in the league and they will tell you he can't play at all.....

 

i didnt call anyone stupid i said it was stupid to make dat trade.. but if u wana put words in my mouf then yeah ur stupid. and some one tell me one thing that williams does better then rondo besides shoot

ok sorry , you called someone's opinion stupid because they disagree with you. Try showing a little respect to the other posters . Try learning how to spell too, you make yourself look silly

**** last time i checked it was a forum im not in grammer class. im sorry for spelling the way i talk... dont judge me.. and im still waiting for some to tell me what williams does better then rondo besides shoot

I love Rondo and am not saying he isn't a top 4 or 5 PG, but there are quite a few things that Williams can do and Rondo can't

Post Up
Get to the ft line and make his FT
defend multiple positions
Run the pick and roll/pop better than Rondo.
Can take a game winning shot and not fear being fouled
go to scorer

[Fafnir]

Rondo is the starting PG of the second best team (record wise)in the NBA right now. He has won a championship and has successfully been able to keep four future hall of fame players happy with his play making. Deron may be a better individual player, but Rondo has already earned the respect of Shaq and the Big 3, which is no easy feat. Trading him now would be a very reckless move. This current Celtic team is on a mission and we shouldn't even be talking of trades which could disrupt the team's chemistry.

I don't think we can beat the Lakers as presently constructed unless the Lakers have injuries, which is why I would make moves.

I think you are alone there. If we are healthy, we are BUILT to beat the Lakers.

I may very well be alone but KG, Shaq, Pierce and Allen aren't getting any younger and offense is becoming more and more stagnant.  I believe JO is done and won't play again this year.  I think the Lakers additions of Blake and Barnes will have a much greater impact then most people on this site.  And at the end of the day the Lakers will still have the best player and perhaps the second best player on the floor.  

And don't get me wrong, it isn't like I think the Celtics beating the Lakers is impossible, I just don't think they will.  

I think Barnes has really helped them, especially with Artest's awful start to the year, but Blake?

He's been awful for them. He's been playing around Fisher's level.

[Tai]

Rondo is the starting PG of the second best team (record wise)in the NBA right now. He has won a championship and has successfully been able to keep four future hall of fame players happy with his play making. Deron may be a better individual player, but Rondo has already earned the respect of Shaq and the Big 3, which is no easy feat. Trading him now would be a very reckless move. This current Celtic team is on a mission and we shouldn't even be talking of trades which could disrupt the team's chemistry.

I don't think we can beat the Lakers as presently constructed unless the Lakers have injuries, which is why I would make moves.

Can the Lakers at least beat us on Sunday (assuming they actually do) before making such a claim, ESPECIALLY considering how both teams have done so far this season?

The Lakers don't even have the best record in the West; that might change, and yea, the road to the NBA Finals probably still goes through them, but it's not like they've been too hot lately.

Also, the Celtics have the best record in the East by 3 games. They've recently beaten the Magic and Spurs. They're 34-10 right now, 5 games better than they were last season through 44 games. And of course, we have much better depth when healthy (Shaq, JO, West) than we did last season.

And also...we solve that by trading Ray AND Rondo for Deron? Really?

No thanks.

[jc3celticsphan]

i just dont understand it rondo shuts down deron williams to 5 pts and 6 ast and we wanna trade for deron??? with everything rondo brings us even our own celtics fans would trade rondo for deron... thats just stupid what else rondo has to do to prove u ppl wrong..rondo best pg defender and passer in the nba and we would trade him for some bum with a jump shot gotta be kidding me

So because people disagree with you they are stupid? Yea Williams is such a bum, just ask anyone in the league and they will tell you he can't play at all.....

 

i didnt call anyone stupid i said it was stupid to make dat trade.. but if u wana put words in my mouf then yeah ur stupid. and some one tell me one thing that williams does better then rondo besides shoot

ok sorry , you called someone's opinion stupid because they disagree with you. Try showing a little respect to the other posters . Try learning how to spell too, you make yourself look silly

**** last time i checked it was a forum im not in grammer class. im sorry for spelling the way i talk... dont judge me.. and im still waiting for some to tell me what williams does better then rondo besides shoot

I love Rondo and am not saying he isn't a top 4 or 5 PG, but there are quite a few things that Williams can do and Rondo can't

Post Up
Get to the ft line and make his FT
defend multiple positions
Run the pick and roll/pop better than Rondo.
Can take a game winning shot and not fear being fouled
go to scorer

the only thing i give williams over rondo is his size so yeah hes a better post player but he isnt realy a good one the other day i herd on the jazz broadcast that williams still needs to develop his post game.. but i still think rondos a better defender and and the pick and roll and pick and pop still goes under the shooting catergory along with freethrows. and rondo is clutch its just pierce is always our go to guy in the clutch

[Rondo9dunx]

I am just making this post to help out some of the posters here that aren't top-notch spellers.

If someone corrects your spelling, do not make a comment about how this isnt "grammar" class because grammar and spelling really have nothing to do with eachother. Grammar is more about how you use the words, not how you spell them.

Like if I were to say "Me and Jason went to the store"
THAT would be bad grammar, because the proper way to word it would be "Jason and I"

If I were to say "Jason and I both got punched in da mouf"
THAT would be a spelling error.


So to recap:

1: If someone tells you that you cannot spell, do not say "excuse me, I didnt realize this was grammar class"

2: Make sure if you do, that you at least spell grammar properly.

[Fafnir]

From our posting rules, please not the italics I added:

•Keep all commentary civil, and be courteous to all. Constructive criticism is welcome, but insults directed towards other users or the site staff will not be tolerated.   Coarse / insulting / gloating / condescending language is not allowed under any circumstances.  This prohibition also extends to any off color or inappropriate remarks. Sarcasm can be misinterpreted, so be very careful when using it in a post.  Also be cautious when pointing out spelling or grammatical errors; there is usually no need for this, and such corrections often serve to heighten tensions between posters.  This especially is true when referring to non-English speakers.

Lets get back to being civil.

[indeedproceed]

OFFISHAL WARNING: ALL BAD SPELLIN AN GRAMMER WILL RESULT IN BAND!

-SeltixBlog Staff

EDIT: What Fafnir said.

[Roy H.]

i just dont understand it rondo shuts down deron williams to 5 pts and 6 ast and we wanna trade for deron??? with everything rondo brings us even our own celtics fans would trade rondo for deron... thats just stupid what else rondo has to do to prove u ppl wrong..rondo best pg defender and passer in the nba and we would trade him for some bum with a jump shot gotta be kidding me

You've got to look at more than one game if you're going to use head to head stats, I think.  See here:  http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=willide01&p2=rondora01

Over their respective careers, Deron has outperformed Rondo head-to-head.  There are reasons to prefer Rondo to Deron for this team, but head to head stats aren't one of them, in my opinion.

(Also, since it was brought up, try to watch your tone a bit, please.  Calling somebody's opinion stupid is basically the same as calling them stupid.)

[Moranis]

Rondo is the starting PG of the second best team (record wise)in the NBA right now. He has won a championship and has successfully been able to keep four future hall of fame players happy with his play making. Deron may be a better individual player, but Rondo has already earned the respect of Shaq and the Big 3, which is no easy feat. Trading him now would be a very reckless move. This current Celtic team is on a mission and we shouldn't even be talking of trades which could disrupt the team's chemistry.

I don't think we can beat the Lakers as presently constructed unless the Lakers have injuries, which is why I would make moves.

I think you are alone there. If we are healthy, we are BUILT to beat the Lakers.

I may very well be alone but KG, Shaq, Pierce and Allen aren't getting any younger and offense is becoming more and more stagnant.  I believe JO is done and won't play again this year.  I think the Lakers additions of Blake and Barnes will have a much greater impact then most people on this site.  And at the end of the day the Lakers will still have the best player and perhaps the second best player on the floor.  

And don't get me wrong, it isn't like I think the Celtics beating the Lakers is impossible, I just don't think they will.  

I think Barnes has really helped them, especially with Artest's awful start to the year, but Blake?

He's been awful for them. He's been playing around Fisher's level.

Blake is hitting over 40% from three and at just under 93% from the line and he isn't afraid to shoot the ball.  He is also a credible passer and rebounder.  That is exactly what you want in a backup PG and will be valuable in the playoffs as a result.  He also has allowed Shannon Brown to not focus so much on PG esque duties and Brown is much better this year as a result. 

[GreenFaith1819]

I'd love DWill here in Green, in 2012 (After Ray leaves or moves to bench).

Would not want that to be at the expense of Rondo, though. I think the two of them could co-exist. DWill is a physical PG, and I think he could transition to SG with his style of play.

I think a backcourt of DWill and Rondo would absolutely paralyze opponents.

We have a special player in Rondo - IMO a Once-in-a-Lifetime type of player. He displayed that against CHI in 08-09 playoffs, and was instrumental once again in almost shredding Lebron's Cavs last year - by himself. Rondo was certainly a main cog in expelling CLE last year. CLE slowed Pierce and Ray down at times, but they had no answer for Rajon.

With DWill's physical style of play, you give things up for that. He is not as quick or fast as Rondo. DWill can shoot big time, I was reminded of that last night. HE can convert his free throws.

I just think - if you replaced DWill with Rondo in the 08-09 playoffs, I don't believe we would've beat them (CHI). Rondo provided EVERYTHING we needed in that series, and he did the same thing in last year's playoffs.

CLE (or CHI in 08-09) had no answer for Rondo. Couldn't stop him.

Some have made a valid argument that Rondo is surrounded by great players, which he is. But boy did he work wonders with a lineup of Perk, Powe (until he got hurt), Ray and Pierce in 08-09 playoffs, with KG hurt. He even got Perk to average 12-13 pts that series.

Rondo is not Superman, of course, but the last few players that seemed to beat a team by themselves in a series with their all-around play were Magic, Bird, Jordan, etc.

It is left up to the imagination whether DWill can in fact raise the level of play of his teammates. Rondo does in fact do that here in Boston - which is why I wouldn't want him gone at the expense of DWill.

But as for the Thread title at hand - sure if we could get BOTH him and Rondo here, do it. DWill would be a max contract at SG, Rondo would remain a Pure PG, and then we could hopefully bring back Perk or sign a big to a max (Dwight, KLove?)

(And not to deflect the thread - if DWill is leaving Utah in 2012, can we get Big Al back home at a discount?)

[PosImpos]

I would only trade Rondo for D-Will in 2012 if we were sure of getting Dwight Howard as well.

D-Will + Dwight Howard = contender for many years.

[Celtics18]

The biggest difference between CP3/Williams and Rondo now is that they make 3s and hit their free throws.

When it comes to things other than scoring from those two areas Rondo has reached their level.

I agree for the most part (although I think Rondo's passing and assists totals are skewed in his favor because of the cast around him).  But your "biggest difference" is the most important objective of the game - to score points.  So that's quite a huge difference between Rondo and the 2 of them.

As for this talk about D-Will coming to Boston in a S+T... He would want to leave Utah because it's not enough of a winning situation.  And Boston Celtics team with Kendrick Perkins, 35 year old Paul Pierce, possibly 37 year old Ray Allen, and possibly 36 year old KG is going to be a more winning situation that D-Will would want to sign on for 5 years to?  The only way we convince him is if we could get Dwight on board.  Which the only way we could get him is if we sell him on Rondo.  Who we would then be dealing away immediately after...  I think this whole plan is very far fetched.

i just dont understand it rondo shuts down deron williams to 5 pts and 6 ast and we wanna trade for deron??? with everything rondo brings us even our own celtics fans would trade rondo for deron... thats just stupid what else rondo has to do to prove u ppl wrong..rondo best pg defender and passer in the nba and we would trade him for some bum with a jump shot gotta be kidding me

The refs shut down deron williams to those stats if you watched the game.  I'm a celts fan, but let's call a spade a spade here those of us who watched the game.

In regards to the point about the primary objective of the game being to score points, I don't think you're giving enough credit to assists leading to points scored.

According to my calculations, accounting for points scored by the player as well as points created due to assists by that player, I think you'll find that Rondo and Williams are much closer in points produced than you would think.

Williams produces roughly 42.1 points per game for his team, while Rondo is producing 38.2.  By further comparison, Chris Paul is at 37.3.

Note: I gave 2.15 points per assist.  For each of those teams, 3 pointers account for about 15% of the teams total field goals made per game.  Thus, the 2.15 number.

[Fafnir]

I think Barnes has really helped them, especially with Artest's awful start to the year, but Blake?

He's been awful for them. He's been playing around Fisher's level.

Blake is hitting over 40% from three and at just under 93% from the line and he isn't afraid to shoot the ball.  He is also a credible passer and rebounder.  That is exactly what you want in a backup PG and will be valuable in the playoffs as a result.  He also has allowed Shannon Brown to not focus so much on PG esque duties and Brown is much better this year as a result. 

He's also shooting 38% from the field which leaves his eFG% at .513. He doesn't get to the line at all either, he's got a TS% of just .534. His assist rate is horrid (triangle PG woes) but his TOV% is high for someone who doesn't get any asssist anymore. Meanwhile he doesn't take any shots at all really at 12% usage.

He's been awful, reduced to bringing up the ball and catching and shooting. Meanwhile his defense isn't noticably better than Fisher's.

I don't think he's helped Brown all that much, Brown just started out red hot shoooting. Brown's shooting efficiency is cratering month by month and he still is a one dimensional scorer.

[action781]

I would only trade Rondo for D-Will in 2012 if we were sure of getting Dwight Howard as well.

D-Will + Dwight Howard = contender for many years.

But like I mentioned earlier: D-Will doesn't agree to a S+T unless Dwight is here.  Dwight doesn't sign here unless we don't resign Perk this offseason

[MBunge]

DWill might be a better rebuilding piece than Rondo, though I'm not sure about that.  But when it comes to who's the best PG for this Celtic team to win a title, it's no contest.

Rondo averages 10 shots about 2 ft attempts a game.  DWill averages over 15 shots and 7 ft attempts a game.  DWill would completely change the offensive chemistry of the team and I've seen nothing out of him that says he could play at the same high level when he's not allowed to score a lot.

Mike