Refs Are Out to Get The Celtics

[MBunge]

From the NBA games I've seen this season, Celtic and otherwise, there has definitely been a change in fouls being called.  They are letting a lot of contact go without a whistle, particularly on drives to the hoop where guys are just getting blatantly hacked.  I'm not sure why it is, but it only increases the arbitrary nature of NBA officiating.

Mike

[FR33ZY]

I'm glad this thread was started. I been watching the games for years, and It seems Stern has it out for the Celtics.  These younger teams being successful are more lucrative for the NBA than an aging celtics team.

[SalmonAndMashedPotatoes]

Any Celtics fans complaining about the non-call on Ginobili's final shot?

That was a clean block. The refs did miss a travel by Marquis though late.

Marquis didn't travel either.  By the time he gained control of the ball, he only took two steps. 

It's ironic when Popovich complains about a travel call in a game where Tony Parker got the benefit of a 4-step spin move layup to end the 1st half.  Fact is, Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan are 3 of the most frequent travelers in the NBA.  Duncan takes baby steps every time he catches the ball in the high post, and after they receive a pass Ginobili and Parker often take 2-3 steps before they initiate their dribble. 

NBA officials have it easy--most of their job is subjective.  They can 'look' for certain calls and find them every time down the court, especially if you're talking about 3 second violations, illegal defenses, travels, or illegal screens.  By my count, the Spurs received the benefit of most of these subjective calls last night, lots of dubious 3 second, illegal defense, illegal picks, and travel calls that they didn't seem to be looking for with the same amount of awareness on the other end when it pertained to the Spurs players. 

Let's remember that the Spurs as a group are one of the best teams in the league at 'bending the rules.' Tim Duncan is the master of the walking pick where he makes an initially legal pick and then takes baby steps into the direction in which the defender is attempting to get around the pick, basically creating a moving pick in the process.  Giniboli and Jefferson (like Bowen before the) are masters of glutching and grabbing off-the-ball.  Meanwhile, Jermaine O'Neal gets phantom calls on the other end mainly because he has bad balance and made it 'look' like he was fouling when in fact he was just falling down of his own accord.

[Greenbean]

Any Celtics fans complaining about the non-call on Ginobili's final shot?

That was a clean block. The refs did miss a travel by Marquis though late.

Marquis didn't travel either.  By the time he gained control of the ball, he only took two steps.  

It's ironic when Popovich complains about a travel call in a game where Tony Parker got the benefit of a 4-step spin move layup to end the 1st half.  Fact is, Parker, Ginobili, and Duncan are 3 of the most frequent travelers in the NBA.  Duncan takes baby steps every time he catches the ball in the high post, and after they receive a pass Ginobili and Parker often take 2-3 steps before they initiate their dribble.  

NBA officials have it easy--most of their job is subjective.  They can 'look' for certain calls and find them every time down the court, especially if you're talking about 3 second violations, illegal defenses, travels, or illegal screens.  By my count, the Spurs received the benefit of most of these subjective calls last night, lots of dubious 3 second, illegal defense, illegal picks, and travel calls that they didn't seem to be looking for with the same amount of awareness on the other end when it pertained to the Spurs players.  

Let's remember that the Spurs as a group are one of the best teams in the league at 'bending the rules.' Tim Duncan is the master of the walking pick where he makes an initially legal pick and then takes baby steps into the direction in which the defender is attempting to get around the pick, basically creating a moving pick in the process.  Giniboli and Jefferson (like Bowen before the) are masters of glutching and grabbing off-the-ball.  Meanwhile, Jermaine O'Neal gets phantom calls on the other end mainly because he has bad balance and made it 'look' like he was fouling when in fact he was just falling down of his own accord.

I would argue that the subjective nature of NBA rules make it difficult, not easy for refs. If everything was cut and dry, black and white, then it would be easy to make the calls. When the ref has to use judgement, it gets exponentially more difficult to be consistent play to play, and ref to ref.

Regarding your rant about how illegal the Spurs play is I just dont buy it.

Everything you said about all of those players the Celtics are equally as guilty.

KG travels in the post. KG and Big Baby use that walking pick almost exclsively. Every good defensive team clutches and grabs off the ball.

[vinnie]

Any Celtics fans complaining about the non-call on Ginobili's final shot?

What is there to complain about? Pierce hit the ball and did not get any part of Ginobli's body.

[Fafnir]

Any Celtics fans complaining about the non-call on Ginobili's final shot?

What is there to complain about? Pierce hit the ball and did not get any part of Ginobli's body.

Technically he probably hand checked him, but they weren't calling that all night. Both teams were grabbing, holding, and otherwise being physical with ball handlers.

[nba is the worst]

Any Celtics fans complaining about the non-call on Ginobili's final shot?

What is there to complain about? Pierce hit the ball and did not get any part of Ginobli's body.

I have already agreed it wasn't a foul - but Spurs homers don't (all) agree...

[JerseyKid.]

Any Celtics fans complaining about the non-call on Ginobili's final shot?

What is there to complain about? Pierce hit the ball and did not get any part of Ginobli's body.

I have already agreed it wasn't a foul - but Spurs homers don't (all) agree...

Who cares, every losing team always puts the blame somewhere. Tell them to call it even on parker hip checking rondo trying to get the "Steal" or ginobli hugging pierce like he was santa on christmas. Not only that, i had to laugh at manu punching an empty seat on the way out scaring the lady celtic fan sitting next to it. He got blocked CLEANLY on a desperation 3 , time to get over it.


They lost, and thats that. They can complain, cry and bicker until we see them again .... which we should have everyone back and SHOULD be a totally different affair.

[IowaGuy]

Manu was actually not even touched that whole last possesion...go watch the last play over.  If anything it was a moving screen on Mcdyess (the 1st screen he set, not the second) who was open on the roll but it would have been a [dang] near impossible pass due to the hard double by PP & Daniels and the fact that Timmy dove hard to the rim bringing Big Baby back into the picture as the passing lane opened up.  It was just great defense.  

I get a kick out of Pop complaining on the travel call too.  First off, it was a grey area travel...when did he gain possesion?  Plus, this coming from a coach who has recently won a game on a 4 step travel by Flopper Mcflopperson over the bucks and won a recent one on a 'charge' call drawn by Flopper Mcflopperson over the Nuggets.  

[Finkelskyhook]

Can we pay our fines with our knuckles cause I would definitely accept if I could punch Stern.  

I think we get the shaft a lot.  Watch how they call it for Lebron and say PP, huge difference.  One you breathe on him and its a foul the other you can ride him like a horse.

NBA refs are the worst of any sport.

I disagree.  I'd say they're the best of any sport.  How many officials that you know can apply different rules for different players and different rules for different stages of the game on the fly?

[nba is the worst]

Can we pay our fines with our knuckles cause I would definitely accept if I could punch Stern.  

I think we get the shaft a lot.  Watch how they call it for Lebron and say PP, huge difference.  One you breathe on him and its a foul the other you can ride him like a horse.

NBA refs are the worst of any sport.

I disagree.  I'd say they're the best of any sport.  How many officials that you know can apply different rules for different players and different rules for different stages of the game on the fly?

Ha ha, NICE!

[celticinorlando]

1. Pierce wad fouled by manu before the parker steal
2. Rondo was fouled on the steal. Knocked him down
3. The charge called on rondo was horrible.

[ACF]

Stern is in the process of getting all of the IP addresses of everybody posting on this thread.

A net fine of $32,506.50 will be divided among the participants.

Can we pay our fines with our knuckles cause I would definitely accept if I could punch Stern. 

I think we get the shaft a lot.  Watch how they call it for Lebron and say PP, huge difference.  One you breathe on him and its a foul the other you can ride him like a horse.

NBA refs are the worst of any sport.

I disagree.  I'd say they're the best of any sport.  How many officials that you know can apply different rules for different players and different rules for different stages of the game on the fly?

  TP.

[pearljammer10]

I hate blaming things on the refs but last night was pretty atrocious at the end of the game. When a team is trying to intentionally foul you, and the refs still don't make the calls, then there is certainly a problem going on.

[FLCeltsFan]

If you read Tim Donaghy's book (and I recommend it, whether you like him or not), he talks about how there are some owners who are always courtside and riding the refs and that the referees as a whole dislike those refs and try to stick it to their teams every chance they get.  One is Marc Cuban.  One is Robert Sarver.  And the third one he mentioned is Wyc Grousbeck.  Last night, we also had the Bill Kennedy factor.  According to Donaghy, Kennedy is gay.  And whether Doc knew that or not, he questioned Kennedy's sexuality in one game and ever since, Kennedy has been out to get him. 

On any given night, there are probably a lot more individual agendas by the refs than any directives from Stern.  I believe Stern's influence comes in when he wants to prolong a playoff series, promote a rivalry, or tinker with matchups.   I don't think there is a conspiracy out to get the Celtics as such, but I do believe that there are individual refs who have reason to dislike the Celtics for various reasons,  and whether consciously or subconsciously, those biases affect their calls.

There is also the gambling issue.  I find it hard to believe that Donaghy was the only ref to bet on games.  He only got caught because he got into it big time and got caught up into the Gambino Crime family investigation.   I believe there are others who bet on games.  They have autonomy to do whatever they want.  Like Donaghy, they know what team has a good chance to win because of who is calling the game and because of inside information.  I just don't believe that they are all such upstanding citizens that they would pass up the chance to make an easy bundle.  They may make their bets through a friend or some other way so they don't get caught, but they are doing it. 

Last night it seemed that whichever team got a lead,  the calls went the other way.  I wonder if one of those guys bet on the spread and were doing their best to keep it close.  Just a thought.