A bold, nearly unstomachable "win now then rebuild" trade:

[Fan from VT]

And finally, i'm a little soured in general on the hype ALL point guards are getting right now. I cannot objectively say I would definitely want rondo over Wall, Williams, CP3 (if healthy), Rose, Westbrook, Curry...I think it's become increasingly easy to be a greatly productive PG, probably due to the trickle down of the rule changes a few years ago, and many fan bases quite legitimately think they have a top-3 pg in the game. So therefore I do think the "value" of speedy pg's is a little inflated right now, because the replacement pool is extensive and not as far behind the elite class as it is for other positions right now.

Edit:
For all the "top 3 talk," i really can't say that Rondo has truly separated himself at all from the Rose/Wall/Westbrook/Curry/Paul/Williams group for now or the next 5 years. Additionally, the above group have all figured out how to already greatly improve their shooting problems, which is a skill that truly lasts, especially being able to make a living at the free throw line.

  These arguments are similar to those that have always claimed that KG was never really a superstar because he didn't carry a team scoring-wise, he just made a myriad of contributions in all areas. Most of those players can score better than Rondo (although most people here seem to agree he could score more if he made it more of a priority) but Rondo does a number of things better than those players. You don't value those things as much as you value scoring so I don't think we'll agree on the value of Rondo.

Don't tell me what I think please. Ask me. I value what Rondo does. I value passing and defense more than most. I may still come to a different conclusion than you, as I am brainstorming about whether I think the pendulum has swung too far with regards to rondo.

[More Banners]

TP to FanfromVT for having a nut sack that drags the floor, as evidenced by this trade idea.

Agree on the idea of speedy PG's being overrated these days; just too many of them.  It wasn't long ago when Telfair was considered a speedy PG...(BTW, can we get a "bring back Telfair" thread, please?).

And I'm concerned about the jumper as much as anyone.  It's just easier to execute a half-court offense when the spacing is there.  And I don't get the FT% problem, but with his ability to penetrate, a decent FT% would greatly help his game.

The problem with the trade is that it isn't clear that it would help us.  Grant Hill is a good player, but when it comes down to it, PP and Ray will be on the floor for serious minutes when it counts.  He's not that much of an upgrade over Smokey Q when Q is locked in.  And, like Rondo, Nash has flaws, too.

The most unstomachable part for me is that, although it would be pretty cool to start FIVE sure-fire first-ballot HOFers, it would put us almost immediately back in 1994, when all of our top players leave nearly at once. 

[Gemini]

consider my tongue bitten

[BballTim]

And finally, i'm a little soured in general on the hype ALL point guards are getting right now. I cannot objectively say I would definitely want rondo over Wall, Williams, CP3 (if healthy), Rose, Westbrook, Curry...I think it's become increasingly easy to be a greatly productive PG, probably due to the trickle down of the rule changes a few years ago, and many fan bases quite legitimately think they have a top-3 pg in the game. So therefore I do think the "value" of speedy pg's is a little inflated right now, because the replacement pool is extensive and not as far behind the elite class as it is for other positions right now.

Edit:
For all the "top 3 talk," i really can't say that Rondo has truly separated himself at all from the Rose/Wall/Westbrook/Curry/Paul/Williams group for now or the next 5 years. Additionally, the above group have all figured out how to already greatly improve their shooting problems, which is a skill that truly lasts, especially being able to make a living at the free throw line.

  These arguments are similar to those that have always claimed that KG was never really a superstar because he didn't carry a team scoring-wise, he just made a myriad of contributions in all areas. Most of those players can score better than Rondo (although most people here seem to agree he could score more if he made it more of a priority) but Rondo does a number of things better than those players. You don't value those things as much as you value scoring so I don't think we'll agree on the value of Rondo.

Don't tell me what I think please. Ask me. I value what Rondo does. I value passing and defense more than most. I may still come to a different conclusion than you, as I am brainstorming about whether I think the pendulum has swung too far with regards to rondo.

  Sorry, but I don't see someone who values passing and defense more than most souring on Rondo, who arguably does both of them better than anyone else in the game even when he's not fully healthy. Your main argument seems to be "he can defend and pass, but I prefer point guards who score more than him" which must have thrown me off base.

[Taklamar]

It'd be a big upgrade offensively (only looking at the Nash/Rondo part), probably more than the defensive loss.  Rondo's turnover rate and ft shooting are abysmal and really wipe out most of his positive contributions on offense.

Only way I'd see it working for long term is if they knew next year was a lockout and that ended the "Big Three's" run, so they were trying to maximize this year only.

[18isGREATERthan72]

Maybe I'm too soured on Rondo right now. I just think that if Nash is on this team last year, we beat the Lakers fairly easily. I do think he is that much better on offense, and PG is not the basis of our defense. On offense, I think Nash can do everything Rondo can, but can do many more things: free throws, 3 pointers, midrange, etc. He needs to be double teams; rondo can be sagged off.

Fair point... With Nash, we may have beaten the Lakers.

BUT, without Rondo last year, I don't think we would have even made it to the Finals.

Some people forget how ridiculously good Rondo gets in the playoffs, and that we've got a top tier PG for pennies on the dollar.

[2short]

I give up.  What makes this NEARLY unstomachable?

[GreenEnvy]

The bigger question is what are you looking for in a PG, both as a player and for the team in which he plays.

Someone suggested Rondo may not be as good as players like Wall and Curry. That is outrageous. Even players like Westbrook and Rose. They are great players and could probably destroy Rondo in a game of 1-on-1.

But this is a team sport, and Rondo plays with the Celtics. The roster he has around him, he fits them better than anyone (sans perhaps CP3).

He is an intelligent, defensive-minded, pass-first player. Basically, he is the prototypical NBA PG.

[dpaps]

consider my tongue bitten

Ditto

[Celtics4ever]

Dumb trade would put us more in the nursing home.

[Finkelskyhook]

I give up.  What makes this NEARLY unstomachable?

The thought of an idiot like Nash in a Celtics uniform makes it collossally unstomachable to me.

Not to mention that he's half the player Rondo is.

[BballTim]

It'd be a big upgrade offensively (only looking at the Nash/Rondo part), probably more than the defensive loss.  Rondo's turnover rate and ft shooting are abysmal and really wipe out most of his positive contributions on offense.

  Rondo averages 4.7 assists/bad pass and has 20 ballhandling turnovers. Nash averages 4.5 assists/bad pass and has 26 ballhandling turnovers. Rondo has a better assist/turnover ratio than Nash.

[BballTim]

Not to mention that he's half the player Rondo is.

  No, go ahead and mention it. Maybe it will curtail any Rondo for Billups threads.

[Edgar]

While I am on the fence on whether this helps us this year, the value of the trade is not good enough.  Rondo has a ton more value than Nash and Hill at this point.  We would have to get back at least another asset or two to even consider a deal like that.

Sweet the pot with mmm... nah Phoenix doesnt have ANYthing that closely interest me. mmm.. maybe Frye as backup but even him isnt saint in my church

[pearljammer10]

Now, would you do it if Howard and Williams' agents told you that they both wanted to team up if one team had the cap space in 2012?

No because Id rather keep Rondo and make a push to sign Howard instead of trading Rondo and our future for more veterans and striking out with Williams.